God the Father created Jesus

[SpiritualSon]

This is what I say of Christ:

Jesus is the one and only true Son of God, conceived of God’s Spirit, born of a virgin, inheriting the righteousness of God with all the attributes of perfection, attributed to the Father, and without sin or blemish. To Jesus alone has the title been credited: ‘The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.’

That didn't answer my question. What is He then, human or an angel...?

He is the God-Man. Fully God and Fully Human, He is Theoanthropos (Theo=God and anthropos=man) which is the God-Man

Jesus Christ is fully God in Human also. To believe He is not God as to His Human is a big mistake.

Harry :fadein:

 

[SpiritualSon]

Jehovah God the Father put on a Human Form and sent Himself into the world as the Son of God. Our Lord Jesus Christ frequently says that the Father sent Him, and that He was sent by the Father (as in Matthew 10:40; John 15:24; John 3:17-34; John 5:23-24; John 3:36-38; John 6:29-39-40-44-57 John 7:16-18-28-29; John 8:16-18-29-42; 9:4; and in many other places); and this He says, because "being sent into the world" means to descend and come among men; and this was done by means of a human which He took on through the virgin Mary. Moreover, the Human is actually the Son of God was conceived from Jehovah God as its Father (according to Luke 1:32-35). He is called "the Son of God," "the Son of man," and "the son of Mary;" "the Son of God" meaning Jehovah God in His Human Form; "the Son of man" Jesus Christ in respect to the Word; while "the son of Mary" means strictly the human He took on. That this is the meaning of "Son of God" and "Son of man" will be shown in what follows. That "the son of Mary" means the mere human is clearly seen in the generation of man, in that the soul is from the father and the body from the mother; for the soul is contained in the semen of the father and is clothed with a body in the mother; or what is the same thing, all the spiritual that man has is from the father and all the material from the mother. In regard to the Lord, the Divine that He had was from Jehovah the Father, and the human from the mother. These two united are the Son of God.

This is evident from the account of the Lord's birth, as given in Luke:
The angel Gabriel said to Mary, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee therefore the Holy thing that shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God (Luke 1:35).
The Lord also called Himself "one sent by the Father," for the reason that sent and angel have the same meaning, angel meaning in the original one sent.

For it is said in Isaiah:
The angel of the faces of Jehovah delivered them; in His love and in His pity He redeemed them (Isaiah 63:9);
and in Malachi:
And the Lord whom ye seek shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in (Malachi 3:1).

Harry :fadein:

 

[Johny]

I believe that Jesus is God. However I haven't received a response from those who don't as to who Jesus actually is.

 

[DivineNames]

I believe that Jesus is God. However I haven't received a response from those who don't as to who Jesus actually is.

It would be nice to get an answer out of them. But also, if you believe that Jesus is one "person" of a Trinity, then perhaps you could explain what is meant by "person"?

 

[Georges]

I believe that Jesus is God. However I haven't received a response from those who don't as to who Jesus actually is.

Jesus was a man born under special circumstances....Upon his baptism, he recieved that Holy Spirit of God (Isa 11:2), much like Samson recieved the HS of God (but to a lesser degree). Upon his baptism, Jesus was officially recognized by God to represent him on earth...

Jesus is the Memra of God in the flesh...He is the Agent of God who deals with Men as if God himself were present.

 

[thessalonian]

I believe that Jesus is God. However I haven't received a response from those who don't as to who Jesus actually is.

What difference does it make. It's not going to be a correct answer.

 

[Imagican]

Jesus IS the Son of God. It's really simple guys.

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus IS the Son of God. It's really simple guys.

And I agree.

Johny. There is no point saying you believe Jesus is God and then saying that those who don't agree, have not responded. We have. He is the Son of God. The Word of God.

And as Imagican has said, it really is simple. The problem is, doctrines have been formed on this false premise. Doctrines which many hold on to for dear life. So while you hold to that premise, when someone says that Jesus is the son of God (rather than God), you are still interpreting the response from your premise. And the result will only bring confusion.

You cannot build on a wrong foundation and expect something solid to be supported by it.

So the choice is this. Either break down the corrupt foundation and build again on the rock which is Christ Jesus. Or hold onto something that man has built and which will ultimately fail.

 

[Fulton Sheen's Warrior]

+JMJ+

Johny. There is no point saying you believe Jesus is God and then saying that those who don't agree, have not responded. We have. He is the Son of God. The Word of God.

According to sacred Scriptrure the Word is God.

So the choice is this. Either break down the corrupt foundation and build again on the rock which is Christ Jesus. Or hold onto something that man has built and which will ultimately fail.

Mutz, if the docrine of Christ's Divinity were false it would be dead now.

To beleive that Jesus is not God is simply unsciptural. Christ claims to be God!

 

[John the Baptist]

Guzmore,

You can dismiss them as not applicable to Jesus, how about all others I listed up?

***
Lovingly friend, you need to start with the Truth of the Everlasting Gospel all over again. Revelation 14:6

Provervs 8 is mostly prophetic. But what does one do with Proverbs 8:22. "The beginning of His way.."? Two of the Godhead with a beginning? Not hardly!

Anyway, it is the Gospel PLAN that was brough forth. And that did call for the Godhead to have a Son DECLARED! See Psalms 2:7's "I will declare..'' & then Hebrews 1:5 for the prophesy as a done deal.
You might get something out of Romans 4:17's last part of the verse also, as I have?

---John

 

[mutzrein]

+JMJ+

Johny. There is no point saying you believe Jesus is God and then saying that those who don't agree, have not responded. We have. He is the Son of God. The Word of God.

According to sacred Scriptrure the Word is God.

[quote:95952]So the choice is this. Either break down the corrupt foundation and build again on the rock which is Christ Jesus. Or hold onto something that man has built and which will ultimately fail.

Mutz, if the docrine of Christ's Divinity were false it would be dead now.

To beleive that Jesus is not God is simply unsciptural. Christ claims to be God![/quote:95952]

Many posts ago on another thread (or threads), these precise issues were raised by a moderator who railed against me and said that since I didn't believe that Jesus was God I was not born again.

I answered these points and his accusations continued unabated. My response, I thought, was gracious as I know it is no man's position to judge another - whether he is destined to heaven or hell. So if anyone is to judge me, judge me by my fruit. I know I belong to Christ and I know the things that He has shown me.

Now if you would like, I will dig out these responses but bear with me please, there is much to do and so little time to do it in.

The word of God being God I will come back to when I find a prior response I wrote to this question.

False doctrines abound I'm afraid. The fact that they do, has nothing to do with the age we live in. In fact I would say that with the impending return of Christ there will be those who believe they will be doing God a favour by persecuting those who don't believe such a doctrine.

OK, you say Christ claims to be God. Are you referring to what he spoke in the gospels perhaps?

Now I have collaborated with a friend who has written a document that may give you insight into the premise that I stand on. I would be more than happy to email you a copy if you wish and allow you to ask questions from that point. Irrespective of whether you wish to avail yourself of this I will try to answer your questions but please be aware, as I said in my earlier post, unless you understand my premise, your interpretation will be skewed.

Sadly the moderator I referred to also accused me of being part of a cult or occult and wanted nothing to do with the document I offered him. I guess he must have thought that it would contaminate him or something. In any case I leave it up to you.

 

[gingercat]

Jesus IS the Son of God. It's really simple guys.

And I agree.

Johny. There is no point saying you believe Jesus is God and then saying that those who don't agree, have not responded. We have. He is the Son of God. The Word of God.

And as Imagican has said, it really is simple. The problem is, doctrines have been formed on this false premise. Doctrines which many hold on to for dear life. So while you hold to that premise, when someone says that Jesus is the son of God (rather than God), you are still interpreting the response from your premise. And the result will only bring confusion.

You cannot build on a wrong foundation and expect something solid to be supported by it.

So the choice is this. Either break down the corrupt foundation and build again on the rock which is Christ Jesus. Or hold onto something that man has built and which will ultimately fail.

I agree, this topic is going round in circle like any other topics. They will never admit they are making mistake, like Catholics never do.

I have said my piece; I am out of this topic!

Only the Truth set us free!!!

Thanks every one!!!!

 

[Johny]

Jesus is the Son the of God, but not God. I gather that those who believe this think Jesus is human, right? So a human saved us? Now according to the Bible, Jesus was without sin. I thought that only God was without sin. How can this be, a human without sin? What made him so special. Could God trust anyone but Himself when talking about the fate of all mankind?

Gingercat, being Catholic has nothing to do with it. I could say the same thing about you. Those who don't accept any guidance often make up their own doctrines.

 

[ChristineES]

It all goes to "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong". It would be the same anywhere. :wink:

 

[John the Baptist]

It all goes to "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong". It would be the same anywhere. :wink:

****
Interesting! But can both be right? If so, how can I back up what I believe with Romans 8:14?? And if the Holy Spirit is not leading me, who is?? and can I make it to heaven any other way than being Born Again??? John 3:5 & Acts 5:32

---John

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus is the Son the of God, but not God. I gather that those who believe this think Jesus is human, right? So a human saved us? Now according to the Bible, Jesus was without sin. I thought that only God was without sin. How can this be, a human without sin? What made him so special. Could God trust anyone but Himself when talking about the fate of all mankind?

Gingercat, being Catholic has nothing to do with it. I could say the same thing about you. Those who don't accept any guidance often make up their own doctrines.

You gather wrong as far as I am concerned. Jesus is the lamb of God. When he walked among men, although in human form He was without spot or blemish. He had all the attributes of perfection attributed to His Father but He was not God. The son - yes, but God - no. He was born of the Spirit of God. He came from God, he was obedient to God, He was one with His Father. And that is why God sent Him. Being obedient to Him in all things - even to the cross.

To suggest that the Father could not trust anyone but Himself with the fate of mankind shows absolute misunderstanding for who Jesus is and what He was foreordained to accomplish.

And do you really think that God would allow himself to be tempted? For what purpose? But the Son of God? Ah, that is something else completely and something that you could learn much from if you understood the reason.

 

[John the Baptist]

To suggest that the Father could not trust anyone but Himself with the fate of mankind shows absolute misunderstanding for who Jesus is and what He was foreordained to accomplish.

And do you really think that God would allow himself to be tempted? For what purpose? But the Son of God? Ah, that is something else completely and something that you could learn much from if you understood the reason.

******
Hi, John here:
You are getting closer! :fadein: The Godhead are the one's who are on trial so to speak!
Did the rebellion in heaven need to happen with a perfectly Godhead created angel?? Was it Their fault??

Then it moved to earth for a purpose! (man kind a little lower than the angels) Was Adam & Eve FLAWED, was it the Godheads fault that these 'perfect' (NOT MATURE) ones could not keep their [FREE WILL] in subject to the Godhead's Eternal Covenant?

That is what the Eternal Gospel & the Eternal Covenant is all about!! Now, how can one have the Eternity of these without the Godhead's ETERNITY???

This is what the Second Adam came to TESTIFY to, that there was no need for sin! This is what the Godhead is settling for the rest of ETERNITY! So, yes, they knew that all thoughts in the 'free will' universe must be understood in the rest of eternity.
On trial? Well, anyway, perhaps we will have a library in heaven to look over the 'accurate record books' of God being on trial through Christ & His faithful ones, huh? No, but we will no doubt be the library testimony for the unfallen universe to question if ever again needed! :wink: See Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

 

[gazzamor]

Gingercat I didn’t say that I dismissed the passage as not applicable to Christ. I said that only in an allegorical sense, not a literal way. Much of Jesus’ attributes are written in symbolic language, such as: Lamb of God, the bread of life, the gate to the sheep pen etc . . .. you can’t take them in a literal sense.

Your use of this passage of Proverbs chapter 8 to try and prove that Jesus was created by the Father smacks of JW teachings, which after studying their doctrines about Jesus, I cannot accept in any way shape or form.

God Bless

gazzamor

 

[Johny]

To suggest that the Father could not trust anyone but Himself with the fate of mankind shows absolute misunderstanding for who Jesus is and what He was foreordained to accomplish.

And do you really think that God would allow himself to be tempted? For what purpose? But the Son of God? Ah, that is something else completely and something that you could learn much from if you understood the reason.

I'm not saying that God the Father became Jesus. How am I misunderstanding who Jesus really is? If Jesus is God, then He knew he could accomplish what He had came to Earth for. I have a hard time understanding how a human could save the world from it's sins.

Jesus was tempted because He was human, He went through everything we go through. Pain, suffering and even temptation.

 

[theSeriousOne]

That's what the term "son" means. The True God is NO ONES son.