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God's Kingdom on Earth

Stormcrow said:
It's all for us. It's not all to us or about us. ...He then goes on to make a specific statement as to how this should apply in church to which he was writing:


{4} Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. {5} But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 1 Corinthians 11:4-5 (NASB)


Today we see churches where men pray with baseball and cowboy hats on while women pray wearing no head cover at all and yet very few consider these things a disgrace, especially women praying with uncovered heads.

Clearly, Paul was using a general observation about authority to make a specific point about prayer to a given church at a given time: a point he didn't repeat in any other epistle (that I'm aware of.)
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I guess I'd just like to know how you reached this conclusion. If today we differ from the early church, do the current modes determine whether he was writing to a given church or to all believers? I realize, for instance, that it is "common" understanding that Paul was not telling all believing women they had to remain silent within the church service. I just do not see how that ever became the "common" interpretation. I'd really like to know how the Scripture can be divided up into "for us" and "not for us" passages. It troubles me deeply that others seem to have no problem with the division and I do. Feels like I'm missing something vital to Bible study.

(I certainly would like to agree wholeheartedly that he was just speaking to those troublesome women in the Corinthian church who were disrupting the preaching with their questions, esp since I are one of those "troublesome" women who believe there is no male nor female in Christ Jesus and that we are all to speak during services..n order that all might be edified.)
 
tessiewebb said:
I guess I'd just like to know how you reached this conclusion. If today we differ from the early church, do the current modes determine whether he was writing to a given church or to all believers? I realize, for instance, that it is "common" understanding that Paul was not telling all believing women they had to remain silent within the church service. I just do not see how that ever became the "common" interpretation. I'd really like to know how the Scripture can be divided up into "for us" and "not for us" passages. It troubles me deeply that others seem to have no problem with the division and I do. Feels like I'm missing something vital to Bible study.

(I certainly would like to agree wholeheartedly that he was just speaking to those troublesome women in the Corinthian church who were disrupting the preaching with their questions, esp since I are one of those "troublesome" women who believe there is no male nor female in Christ Jesus and that we are all to speak during services..n order that all might be edified.)
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Running out of time, so will have to address this fully later.

Things to consider when drawing these lines:


  1. Audience relevance;
  2. Cultural issues;
  3. Time written;
  4. Problems addressed
  5. General or specific?
Another perfect example: Paul (and the early church) addressed the issue of eating meat offered to idols (specific) but used this specific example to make a larger point about freedom in Christ and how this shouldn't be used to cause a weaker brother to stumble (general).

The problem today is people take specific issues written to them and for them and make a general doctrine out of it for us today. This is how and why so many errors pop up in so many churches.

More later.
 
craigmn3 said:
Everything that God chose to include in the New Testament is for, about and applies to us.

This is His express will, and we do not have editing rights
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For you; not about you; applications vary.:spit:
1Ti 5:23 - Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.​
 
N2the light,

I have not read the thread today (family stuff) but i wish to drop this note ...

before i must step away again..

I fully believe we have 'kingdom now' I also believe just as much it will be/ look different after His return. I will not deny His victory over death by denying His kingship etc. The Cross and all it implies is/was the most important time in all of history, tomorrows history and yesterdays history.
 
reba said:
N2the light,

I have not read the thread today (family stuff) but i wish to drop this note ...

before i must step away again..

I fully believe we have 'kingdom now' I also believe just as much it will be/ look different after His return. I will not deny His victory over death by denying His kingship etc. The Cross and all it implies is/was the most important time in all of history, tomorrows history and yesterdays history.
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I also believe we have the kingdom now and Christ is within us,that's the spiritual side,that's our faith....As Ive said,yes He has defeated death,however evil is still in the world,once death has been destroyed,that will not be the case,evil will simply not be.....Our king will not allow such in His kingdom.....
 
Drew said:
The kingdom is already here - this is clearly and repeatedly attested to in the New Testament. Those who claim that it is only here in a "spiritual" sense are inventing a "spirit vs material" distinction that is nowhere supported in the Scriptures.
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So what your saying is the King,allows all manner of evil in His kingdom?I don't think so,all that offends will be destroyed.....
 
n2thelight said:
So what your saying is the King,allows all manner of evil in His kingdom?I don't think so,all that offends will be destroyed.....
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The Word says this is His kingdom...Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


How is there all manner of evil in "righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. "
 
reba said:
The Word says this is His kingdom...Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.


How is there all manner of evil in "righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. "
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Christains today,are still being persecuted,people are still being,raped and murdered,children are being molested.....Where is the peace,of course as a Christian peace is within us,however when the kingdom is here,we shall have that peace,inside and out,for the Prince of peace shall be with us,here on earth.....

Revelation 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

The full Godhead shall be here on earth........
 
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reba said:
Was Stephen at peace?
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Yes he was

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

In this mist of all our troubles we should be at peace,the point Im making is that,when the kingdom is actually here,we won't have these troubles...

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
 
Mark 13:34 "for the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch."

This is His kingdom,although in our hearts,the King is away and while He is away,people are doing all sorts of things,sorta like the old saying,when the cats away the mice play,well when the king returns,all this foolishness that's going on in His kingdom,shall cease.....
 
n2thelight said:
1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Unless these people never went to sleep(died)then,yes,I know for a fact he was talking to me,might want to check why your not changed!
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You highlighted the wrong part of the verse.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
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Paul wasn't writing this to you (unless your real name is "Corinthian" and you've been alive for the past 2,000 years.)
 
Paul wasn't writing this to you (unless your real name is "Corinthian" and you've been alive for the past 2,000 years.)
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You make my point for me,the fact that all of them(Corinths)did go to sleep(died)should tell you that the change to which Paul talked about has not happened,else those Corinths would never have went to sleep.....

So yes,he was talking to me,and until the last trump takes place,he's talking to all those who read what he wrote,concerning the mystery.....
 
n2thelight said:
You make my point for me,the fact that all of them(Corinths)did go to sleep(died)should tell you that the change to which Paul talked about has not happened,else those Corinths would never have went to sleep.....

So yes,he was talking to me,and until the last trump takes place,he's talking to all those who read what he wrote,concerning the mystery.....
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Couldnt agree more.
 
when the kingdom is here
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That's the point: it IS here!

Why is the invitation to the tree of life still going out in Revelation 22 when His kingdom is supposed to have arrived on earth in Revelation 21?

If evil is gone, why are there still sinners in Revelation 22 that need redemption???

Why are they outside the city????
 
Stormcrow said:
Why is the invitation to the tree of life still going out in Revelation 22 when His kingdom is supposed to have arrived on earth in Revelation 21?

If evil is gone, why are there still sinners in Revelation 22 that need redemption???

Why are they outside the city????
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That's the closing summary which is from Rev 22:6-21 where God ends His book like this:
Rev 22:6-21 Then he said to me, "These words [are] faithful and true....


Stormcrow said:
Sounded almost 2,000 years ago.
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1Cor 15:51-53 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed -- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
 
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n2thelight said:
If the last trump sounded 2000 years ago,there should now be no more flesh?
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but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.
Revelation 10:7 (NASB)

The "mystery of God" is finished when the 7th angel is about to sound. What mystery?

And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables,
Mark 4:11 (NASB)

25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;
Romans 16:25-26 (NASB)

4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, Ephesians 3:4-6 (NASB)

25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26 that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Colossians 1:25-27 (NASB)

So again, the "mystery of God" was finished as the "last trump" was about to sound! The "mystery of God" was the Gentiles becoming "fellow heirs of the promise" in Christ!

This is indisputable!

Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."
Revelation 11:15 (NASB)

So when did the last trump sound??? When Christ took the throne of His kingdom!

"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

Christ said the same thing to Caiaphas at His trial!


Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

The "last trump" sounded as Christ descended in judgment upon Jerusalem, when He took the Kingdom of God away from Israel through the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple: the very thing He told His disciples and the Sanhedrin some of them would live to see!

This happened in 70 AD!

Your repeated posts insisting that there will be "no [more] flesh" at the last trump reveals a complete misunderstanding of what His coming means.

For what it's worth. :nono2
 
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