Grace through faith believers won't be raptured but still get saved?

[jonahmano]

Revelation 12
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Woman represents the church of God
Clothed with sun represents Sun of righteousness and that is Jesus Christ
Moon under her feet represents Grace as the moon reflects the sun's light, reflection of Jesus Christ and that is Grace, The church stands on grace of God
Twelve stars represent church on the foundation of 12 apostles
A man child - True servants of God to be caught up and rest grace through faith believers will face the tribulation

 

[Butch5]

Interesting debates going in social media and I found one person explaining beautifully that everyone is saved by Grace through Faith but only those who have intimate relationship with Jesus Christ are going to take the first flight!!!

Let's just look at the verses he quotes us

Luke 21:34-36 King James Version (KJV)
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

If ALL Christians were going to take part in this great escape, Why would Jesus give such a stern warning? Surely, Jesus knows that a non-Christian cannot be in an attitude of constant prayer. Surely, non-Christians are not expected to be looking for that day and watching of signs of his Return.

Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I ALSO WILL KEEP THEE FROM THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." The implication of this verse is obvious: If the end-time Christian does NOT stay close to the Lord and endure to the end, HE WILL NOT BE KEPT FROM THE TRIBULATION HOUR!

There are many other scriptures he quotes but most interesting one is

The parable of ten virgins. He says the foolish virgins weren't any un-believers and if they were then they wouldn't have been called virgins in the first place. Foolish virgins were left behind because they didn't have oil with them and that oil is being led by the Holy Spirit which makes a person to have intimate personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Finally he says those who accept Jesus Christ by Grace through faith theory, will surely be saved but they will be left behind because they didn't have any personal relationship with Jesus Christ

What are your thoughts?

To me it sounds like he misunderstands what it takes to be saved. I understand the virgins as Christians but 5 were'n't preparped when the time came and so they missed out. Jesus said,

11 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying,`Lord, Lord, open to us!'
12 "But he answered and said,`Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.' (Mat 25:11-12 NKJ)

39 "But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.
40 "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." (Luk 12:39-40 NKJ)

The master of the house wasn't ready and lost everything, Jesus told the disciples to be ready.

 

[4afaithfulone]

Interesting debates going in social media and I found one person explaining beautifully that everyone is saved by Grace through Faith but only those who have intimate relationship with Jesus Christ are going to take the first flight!!!

Let's just look at the verses he quotes us

Luke 21:34-36 King James Version (KJV)
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

If ALL Christians were going to take part in this great escape, Why would Jesus give such a stern warning? Surely, Jesus knows that a non-Christian cannot be in an attitude of constant prayer. Surely, non-Christians are not expected to be looking for that day and watching of signs of his Return.

Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I ALSO WILL KEEP THEE FROM THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." The implication of this verse is obvious: If the end-time Christian does NOT stay close to the Lord and endure to the end, HE WILL NOT BE KEPT FROM THE TRIBULATION HOUR!

There are many other scriptures he quotes but most interesting one is

The parable of ten virgins. He says the foolish virgins weren't any un-believers and if they were then they wouldn't have been called virgins in the first place. Foolish virgins were left behind because they didn't have oil with them and that oil is being led by the Holy Spirit which makes a person to have intimate personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Finally he says those who accept Jesus Christ by Grace through faith theory, will surely be saved but they will be left behind because they didn't have any personal relationship with Jesus Christ

What are your thoughts?

You would be surprised how many do not think it important to be watching, but then again, how many of us recognize him in the clouds right now?
God is rearranging some things and the earth and heavens are being shaken, God is throwing one ruler down and setting another up, past sins of unrepentant/unbelieving man are being resurrected and exposed over the internet, or Tower of Babel, where man's words are being judged and their actions weighed for their faithfulness in Christ or wicked ways revealed by their heart of perversions, slander, gossip, back biting, mudslinging, cheaters, liars, haters, fornicators, adulterers and the like. And the fires of hell are bringing them torment in the heat of their judgment day. Twitter(little birdie told me), Face(Pride in myself)book, My (secret) Space.
We blab it all and Christ is up in the clouds with the angels shaking every one and thing that can be shaken, for it is Harvest Time! We are being shaken and he is watching to see what kind of fruit falls from our tree, rather it be good fruit or rotten, in faith/trusting God or in fear/unbelief?
This is to see who is standing in fear(without God) of the things that we see coming upon the earth in the ways of tribulation as the ungodly world, that are coming from the clouds where Christ sits, as in our weather conditions whom God controls His earth with, and the sword/war that God brings upon the earth for judgment purposes, for rejection His Son/The Word to live by in peace and harmony that His Word brings. He examines the gossip, and our desires for vengeance by the hands of man, instead of mercy, from our unforgiving hearts, and slander in the air, then exposes the hidden things to bring them in the Light to be judged by the Hand of God, who places their punishment in hand of man, who is ruthless.
Christ knows how ruthless they can be, we placed him in hell of man's hand at his own crucifixion. For 2 days he was in the same hell, being handed over to man in the garden on the first Evening. They roasted him in the heat of persecution, mockery, beatings, and torment then killed him on the 2nd day but arose on the 3rd day after he was handed over which just happened to be on the 7th day Sabbath.

Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV
Luke 17:
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
KJV
Look up, he is looking down, to see if you are looking up
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

 

[Kathi]

You would be surprised how many do not think it important to be watching, but then again, how many of us recognize him in the clouds right now?
God is rearranging some things and the earth and heavens are being shaken, God is throwing one ruler down and setting another up, past sins of unrepentant/unbelieving man are being resurrected and exposed over the internet, or Tower of Babel, where man's words are being judged and their actions weighed for their faithfulness in Christ or wicked ways revealed by their heart of perversions, slander, gossip, back biting, mudslinging, cheaters, liars, haters, fornicators, adulterers and the like. And the fires of hell are bringing them torment in the heat of their judgment day. Twitter(little birdie told me), Face(Pride in myself)book, My (secret) Space.
We blab it all and Christ is up in the clouds with the angels shaking every one and thing that can be shaken, for it is Harvest Time! We are being shaken and he is watching to see what kind of fruit falls from our tree, rather it be good fruit or rotten, in faith/trusting God or in fear/unbelief?
This is to see who is standing in fear(without God) of the things that we see coming upon the earth in the ways of tribulation as the ungodly world, that are coming from the clouds where Christ sits, as in our weather conditions whom God controls His earth with, and the sword/war that God brings upon the earth for judgment purposes, for rejection His Son/The Word to live by in peace and harmony that His Word brings. He examines the gossip, and our desires for vengeance by the hands of man, instead of mercy, from our unforgiving hearts, and slander in the air, then exposes the hidden things to bring them in the Light to be judged by the Hand of God, who places their punishment in hand of man, who is ruthless.
Christ knows how ruthless they can be, we placed him in hell of man's hand at his own crucifixion. For 2 days he was in the same hell, being handed over to man in the garden on the first Evening. They roasted him in the heat of persecution, mockery, beatings, and torment then killed him on the 2nd day but arose on the 3rd day after he was handed over which just happened to be on the 7th day Sabbath.

Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV
Luke 17:
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
KJV
Look up, he is looking down, to see if you are looking up
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

Do you consider yourself a teacher of God's Holy Word?

 

[ezra]

NO true born again saved by grace christian will be left out of the rapture ..the Grace of God is a Gift from him. Grace is the unmerited favor of God . i find it a shame when people want to twist scriptures .to be scare tactics and also be the judge of salvation .....SOMEBODY BEST BE READING THEIR Bible CLOSER . WE WATCH BY SERVING :amen

 

[ezra]

Once again you see the necessity of studying the Scriptures. All those who are saved by grace through faith receive the gift of the Holy Spirit -- indeed the gift of "Christ in you the hope of glory". Therefore saints (sanctified by the indwelling Holy Spirit) automatically have a personal relationship with Christ. Therefore none who are truly saved will be "left behind". Search the Scriptures and don't waste time with every wind of doctrine.

:amen

 

[ezra]

I was JUST thinking about this.I know of some people that read the Bible go to church and pass judgement on others.Well some are racists some are fornicators some even teach the younger generation to be like them.These people have faith that they are going to Heaven.Becasue they have that faith is it really so? I dont think so I think they may have prepared themselves for Heaven but they did it foolishly and will not be aloud at all.I mean I gave my life by not having sinful friends by not fornicating even though I was given theae opportunities numerous times for nothing? I mean just anybody is let in if they run down to the church befor the end and say"I repent" and thats it? Its that easy?......I think not .......I believe its not faith alone but proof af character that will admit one into Heaven.

where does it say prof of Character. dont get me wrong character is important and all should work on our walk/talk paul wrote in Ephesians 2 saved by grace through faith. its like a church sign i seen fishers of men we catch them God cleans them. we are like potters clay in the masters hands. like the song he didnt throw the clay away

 

[Sinthesis]

Christ knows how ruthless they can be, we placed him in hell of man's hand at his own crucifixion. For 2 days he was in the same hell, being handed over to man in the garden on the first Evening. They roasted him in the heat of persecution, mockery, beatings, and torment then killed him on the 2nd day but arose on the 3rd day after he was handed over which just happened to be on the 7th day Sabbath.

You believe Jesus was crucified on the Jewish 6th day of the week and rose from the dead on the Jewish 7th day of the week?

 

[4afaithfulone]

Do you consider yourself a teacher of God's Holy Word?

Not sure how to take your comment, if testing me or asking me?
So I will just give my answer to the question.
We should all consider ourself being made in the image of Christ, the Teacher!
We are not to be just entertained by the stories in the Bible as if they are speaking of someone else.
We are supposed to be humbled to submit to learning God's Word, being conformed into Christ's image, and by the direction of the Spirit of life putting him into our hearts so that we may not only learn ourselves, but teach others of how good it can be to follow Christ so that God can bless them, instead of us/them continuing in wickedness in a cursed life of torment with no rest.
Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV

 

[Kathi]

Not sure how to take your comment, if testing me or asking me?
So I will just give my answer to the question.
We should all consider ourself being made in the image of Christ, the Teacher!
We are not to be just entertained by the stories in the Bible as if they are speaking of someone else.
We are supposed to be humbled to submit to learning God's Word, being conformed into Christ's image, and by the direction of the Spirit of life putting him into our hearts so that we may not only learn ourselves, but teach others of how good it can be to follow Christ so that God can bless them, instead of us/them continuing in wickedness in a cursed life of torment with no rest.
Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV

If a person is not teaching the true literal word of God it is confusing for those who are not mature Christians.You did not answer my question.Do you consider yourself a teacher of God's Holy Word?
2 John 7
1 John 4:2
Matthew 15:14

 

[4afaithfulone]

You believe Jesus was crucified on the Jewish 6th day of the week and rose from the dead on the Jewish 7th day of the week?

Yes, I do. I believe that he is our 7th day Sabbath or rest. If he was the Passover Lamb that the Jews rehearsed for centuries, then he must fulfill the Passover as they rehearsed it. The Lamb was to be roasted and all of it eaten before the morning.

Jesus is our Passover Lamb that we must feed upon, for he is the Bread of life, The Word of life and the meat of the Word is what saves us. He arose on the 3rd day after he entered into hell, being betrayed and placed into the hands of ungodly man on the first Evening in the garden of Gethsemane.
Matt 4:5
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
KJV
John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
KJV

 

[4afaithfulone]

If a person is not teaching the true literal word of God it is confusing for those who are not mature Christians.You did not answer my question.Do you consider yourself a teacher of God's Holy Word?
2 John 7
1 John 4:2
Matthew 15:14

Can you point to something that I have said, that is not in the Bible?

 

[Kathi]

Yes, I do. I believe that he is our 7th day Sabbath or rest. If he was the Passover Lamb that the Jews rehearsed for centuries, then he must fulfill the Passover as they rehearsed it. The Lamb was to be roasted and all of it eaten before the morning.

Jesus is our Passover Lamb that we must feed upon, for he is the Bread of life, The Word of life and the meat of the Word is what saves us. He arose on the 3rd day after he entered into hell, being betrayed and placed into the hands of ungodly man on the first Evening in the garden of Gethsemane.
Matt 4:5
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
KJV
John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
KJV

Why do you believe Jesus went to hell after He was resurrected?What do you think Jesus did in hell?

 

[Kathi]

Can you point to something that I have said, that is not in the Bible?

I don't know if I have enough time today.

 

[4afaithfulone]

If a person is not teaching the true literal word of God it is confusing for those who are not mature Christians.You did not answer my question.Do you consider yourself a teacher of God's Holy Word?
2 John 7
1 John 4:2
Matthew 15:14

Oh, I see, you think that I teach The Word did not become flesh? He most certainly did!
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God whom proceeded from the Father took on a flesh body that was made for him.
The error comes because you are not rightly dividing the Word, for you are looking at the carnal meaning of man denying that he Jesus came in the flesh, and not what the spiritual understand is.
This in 1John 4:2 is saying that only those who can say that Jesus came in Their flesh, meaning they can receive the Word to indwell them, able to hear the Voice or Word of God to be transformed into his image(attributes).
(A&T Guidelines state in part: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." You have not provided scripture supporting your above statement, in particular the word "their" which you underlined. Obadiah)
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
KJV
Did you know that even the demons seen Jesus in the flesh and recognized him? Them believing that he came in the carnal flesh, didn’t save them?

Matt 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
KJV
If a man can not hear the Word of God that you speak to them or show them what it says, and they tell you the Word is not true, or they tell you to leave, or harm you over it, or reject you, never invite you to things because you have the Word of God indwelling your flesh and they can’t Hear those Word’s for it is hard for them cause it torments them.
It is because they do not have the Spirit of God in them and they Hate the Word and those who bring him to them. They are Anti-Christ (Against- The Word)

 

[Kyros]

(Post deleted. Tos 2.4, Rudeness. ToS 2.3, No foul language, pornographic, sexually offensive, sexually explicit, or similarly related material or language including toilet humor. A& T Guidelines, Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding. Obadiah)

 

[4afaithfulone]

Why do you believe Jesus went to hell after He was resurrected?What do you think Jesus did in hell?

No, he entered hell before died. He preached to the lost in the lower parts(low life) of the earth being the poor and down trodden sinners held captive to the enemies grip of sinful lifestyles. Then actually being betrayed by a man/friend who even ate with him placed in the hands of other Ungodly men is Hell! Men who are lost in this world are living in hell and the devil is their god and rules over them.

 

[Kathi]

No, he entered hell before died. He preached to the lost in the lower parts(low life) of the earth being the poor and down trodden sinners held captive to the enemies grip of sinful lifestyles. Then actually being betrayed by a man/friend who even ate with him placed in the hands of other Ungodly men is Hell! Men who are lost in this world are living in hell and the devil is their god and rules over them.

Jesus entered hell before he died and was resurrected?

 

[Kathi]

Oh, I see, you think that I teach The Word did not become flesh? He most certainly did!
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God whom proceeded from the Father took on a flesh body that was made for him.
The error comes because you are not rightly dividing the Word, for you are looking at the carnal meaning of man denying that he Jesus came in the flesh, and not what the spiritual understand is.
This in 1John 4:2 is saying that only those who can say that Jesus came in Their flesh, meaning they can receive the Word to indwell them, able to hear the Voice or Word of God to be transformed into his image(attributes).
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
KJV
Did you know that even the demons seen Jesus in the flesh and recognized him? Them believing that he came in the carnal flesh, didn’t save them?

Matt 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
KJV
If a man can not hear the Word of God that you speak to them or show them what it says, and they tell you the Word is not true, or they tell you to leave, or harm you over it, or reject you, never invite you to things because you have the Word of God indwelling your flesh and they can’t Hear those Word’s for it is hard for them cause it torments them.
It is because they do not have the Spirit of God in them and they Hate the Word and those who bring him to them. They are Anti-Christ (Against- The Word)

(Edit, ToS 2.4, rudeness. Obadiah) a lot of what you say does not make sense (Edit: to me).

 

[ezra]

(Edit, ToS 2.4, rudeness. Obadiah) a lot of what you say does not make sense (Edit: to me).

(Edit: Response to a deleted portion of a post. Obadiah) { No, he entered hell before died. He preached to the lost in the lower parts(low life) of the earth being the poor and down trodden sinners held captive to the enemies grip of sinful lifestyles.} while i don,t agree with this part paul did say he descended >
Ephesians 4:9King James Version (KJV)
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? and Led captivity captive we simply do not know exactly what he was doing the 3 days ..i do not believe he was just dead on the 3rd day he came alive, peter wrote After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits-- if any one has scripture to say exactly what took place in those 3 days.i would be interested to see it. kathi you seem to be quick to point out error but have failed to post correction