Graven Images

[biblecatholic]

jayr,

I want to commend you on being consistent on your position. You say that a cross, picture or statue is the same to you. To this I say amen. They are all the same in a sense ,many of my other protestant brothers separate statues from crosses or pictures. But I want to correct you with some brotherly love. These things point heavenly to God. they help people focus their minds during prayer and keeping their minds focused can better enter into prayer and also be in a state of awareness in your home or elseware. We worship with our 5 senses and our bodies mind soul and spirit. These images aide our finite minds..........Today there are not many world wide that worship an "idol" in the sense you are using it and surely no Christian Catholic or Protestant worships any image. Your focus should be on the idols you, I and others worship... Self, materialism, TV, job, prestige, home, car, etc

Blessings

Why do catholics pray to mary or to saints to intervene on their behalf? why not pray directly to the lord? why the prayer beads? remember 1 kings 19: 18 ? why do catholics bow to statues of peter, angels, mary and jesus? why do some chruches have gargoyles on them? why do priests kiss the golden chalice and the purple cloths during eucharist? why hold candlelight vigils? why in the dark-is this to counter the event in matthew 24:29?

and why call priests and the pope, father? I thought there was only one father? Matthew 23:8-12

Please explain biblecatholic. is this not idolatry? because neither is god.

Archetype, I will gladly explain in the forum about praying to saints. I don't want to derail the topic.This is a topic close to my heart. Imoved your question to that forum

Blessings

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Why do catholics pray to mary or to saints to intervene on their behalf? why not pray directly to the lord?

I will let you answer your own question. Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you? Why? The answer to that question is the answer to your question.

Allow me to expand for a moment:
1. When did Jesus tell the Apostles to write the New Testament? He didn't, according to the Bible.
2. When did Jesus specifically use the word, "Trinity" He didn't, according to the Bible.

So when people ask "when did Jesus tell us to pray to Mary", my reply is "He didn't, and it doesn't matter." The point is that there are Biblical "principals" on which Christian teachings are based. Not everything is “specifically†stated in black and white in the Scriptures. As I said, the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible but most Christians believe in the Trinity.

So, what about prayer to Mary and the saints in heaven? Those in heaven pray with us and for us, as in the book of Revelation when John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). A prayer is a request. When we pray to Mary and the saints in heaven, we are asking them to pray for us, the same way non-Catholic Christians ask their friends or family to pray for them.

Question: When you ask your friends or family to pray for you, does that take away from Jesus or his role as mediator? Of course not, and neither does praying to our brother and sisters in heaven. Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16). The family of God transcends death: You are still a Christian even when you are in heaven, and you can still pray for your brothers and sisters when you are there. Catholics believe Jesus when he says, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive" (Luke 20:38).

Hebrews 12: 22-24 says that as we approach God, Jesus and the angels, we also approach "the spirits of righteous men made perfect". In other words, THE SAINTS. "But they can't hear us" you may say. Wrong. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. For example, in Revelation 5:8, John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

I invite people to read this information:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying ... _Saints.as

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Catholic Crusader, If I were to offer an image of a 'dog' or a 'cat' and call it Jesus, what would your reaction be? What if I offered an image of a 'horned beast' and called it Jesus? Your reaction then? Now I ask, what's the difference between ANY image that is NOT an accurate depiction of Christ Himself? ......

Aww come on. That is a little extreme, isnt it? Lets forget the Catholic Church for a second. Most protestants I know have pictures of Jesus, in there homes and in their churches. I believe you are WAY out of step with almost ALL Christians with that point of view. That is almost a Muslim-like perspective. I believe I will let my protestant brothers who have pictures of Jesus in their homes respond to your question. You may receive it better from them than you will from me.

 

[biblecatholic]

I moved the topic of praying to saints to the proper forum if you want to discuss it there. The mods try to keep it in order when possible. And it's easier to discuss one topic at a time. Many times people will throw 10 doctrines at you at once and the discussion doesn't go so well..

Blessings

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I moved the topic of praying to saints to the proper forum if you want to discuss it there. The mods try to keep it in order when possible. And it's easier to discuss one topic at a time. Many times people will throw 10 doctrines at you at once and the discussion doesn't go so well.. Blessings

Okay. No more saint talk here. Back to graven images. I will just restate my post:

The commandment about “graven images†is one of the most misunderstood scriptures. Consider Exodus 25: 18-19: “And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.†Here, God is commanding that images be made!

So is God contradicting himself? First he says don’t make a graven image, and then he orders graven images to be made?

No, he is not contradicting himself. The problem is that folks have misinterpreted the words “graven image.â€Â

According to Strong’s Concordance, the original Hebrew words that were translated into “graven image†referred to idols (Here is the concordance link: http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi ... ongs=06459 ). Of course, we know that an idol is a false god, or something that you place above God. Since the Cheribum are not false Gods, there is no contradiction.

Therefore, statues in Catholic Churches are not a violation of the commandment either. They are not idols, because they are not false Gods. My Church has a statue of an angel, just like God commanded the Israelites to make. We have a statue of Jesus, who is CERTAINLY not a false God. We have statues of saints because they are heroes of the faith, not gods - just like America has statues of its heroes – Washington, Lincoln, etc. – and those are not idols either.

Bottom line: The commandments forbid images of false idols or false gods, but there is nothing wrong with beautiful artwork of Jesus, Mary, or angels, whether that artwork be paintings, statues, or whatever.

 

[biblecatholic]

The commandment about “graven images†is one of the most misunderstood scriptures. Consider Exodus 25: 18-19: “And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends.†Here, God is commanding that images be made!

So is God contradicting himself? First he says don’t make a graven image, and then he orders graven images to be made?

No, he is not contradicting himself. The problem is that folks have misinterpreted the words “graven image.â€Â

According to Strong’s Concordance, the original Hebrew words that were translated into “graven image†referred to idols (Here is the concordance link: http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi ... ongs=06459 ). Of course, we know that an idol is a false god, or something that you place above God. Since the Cheribum are not false Gods, there is no contradiction.

Therefore, statues in Catholic Churches are not a violation of the commandment either. They are not idols, because they are not false Gods. My Church has a statue of an angel, just like God commanded the Israelites to make. We have a statue of Jesus, who is CERTAINLY not a false God. We have statues of saints because they are heroes of the faith, not gods - just like America has statues of its heroes – Washington, Lincoln, etc. – and those are not idols either.

Bottom line: The commandments forbid images of false idols or false gods, but there is nothing wrong with beautiful artwork of Jesus, Mary, or angels, whether that artwork be paintings, statues, or whatever.

Amen!!! I don't think it could be said any better

 

[GraceBwithU]

Why do catholics pray to mary or to saints to intervene on their behalf? why not pray directly to the lord?

I will let you answer your own question. Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you? Why? The answer to that question is the answer to your question.

Allow me to expand for a moment:
1. When did Jesus tell the Apostles to write the New Testament? He didn't, according to the Bible.
2. When did Jesus specifically use the word, "Trinity" He didn't, according to the Bible.

So when people ask "when did Jesus tell us to pray to Mary", my reply is "He didn't, and it doesn't matter." The point is that there are Biblical "principals" on which Christian teachings are based. Not everything is “specifically†stated in black and white in the Scriptures. As I said, the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible but most Christians believe in the Trinity.

Sorry but…this did not do what you said. It only twists God’s word. As for as the word trinity, you are correct. But I can count to 3. And the bible plainly teaches us of His 3 forms, (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). When praying it actually gives many examples and instructions, none of these example or instructions mention to pray to Mary or any other Saint.

[Question: When you ask your friends or family to pray for you, does that take away from Jesus or his role as mediator? Of course not, and neither does praying to our brother and sisters in heaven.

When a person asks someone to pray for them…they are not praying to this person. What you have said is rubbish. There is a big difference in praying to a person and asking them to pray for you. Wake up. Trust me on this….the saints in heaven are not offering any of your prayers to God, they do not have the authority, only Jesus. It is that simple. They are truly exalted and rewarded, but they are not to be worshiped. Praying to these exalted saints is no different than praying to a graven image. It is putting them equal to Jesus.

If I were to go to my neighbor’s house that I know is a true Christian and ask him to pray for me. I’m only asking for more prayers to be sent up. Even this is probably unnecessary, (God knows our heart).. However, if I go there and pray to him to offer my prayers to God…hum BIG difference.

Ex 20:3
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
KJV

Ex 20:5
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
KJV

Praying is without a doubt a part of worship in every religion.

John 14:13-15
3 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
KJV

The scripture is plain. It is ONLY Jesus that can mediate our prayers.

You should not be surprised that that the real Christian community labels the Catholic religion as idolaters. Praying to saints and mere humans breaks many of the same commandments as worshiping graven images.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

When a person asks someone to pray for them…they are not praying to this person.....

Ah, well, we have a language problem here. "Prayer" can be defined as a request. In that sense, "praying" to the saints is making a request of them to pray for us. To YOU, prayer may equate to worship, and I can therefore understand your misgivings.

Consider the Old English phrase "prithee" (Pray-thee). People use to say, for example, "Prithee open thy door" (Pray thee open the door). This was normal speak for asking someone to open the door. It was not worship: It was simply a request. I hope that helps. Read this link:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Praying ... Saints.asp

Now, I think we were asked not to continue this discussion in this thread. Perhaps we should respect that request.

 

[A-Christian]

When a person asks someone to pray for them…they are not praying to this person. What you have said is rubbish. There is a big difference in praying to a person and asking them to pray for you. Wake up. Trust me on this….the saints in heaven are not offering any of your prayers to God, they do not have the authority, only Jesus. It is that simple. They are truly exalted and rewarded, but they are not to be worshiped. Praying to these exalted saints is no different than praying to a graven image. It is putting them equal to Jesus.

If I were to go to my neighbor’s house that I know is a true Christian and ask him to pray for me. I’m only asking for more prayers to be sent up. Even this is probably unnecessary, (God knows our heart).. However, if I go there and pray to him to offer my prayers to God…hum BIG difference.

Another example of street-corner theology and how it can be dangerous.

 

[GraceBwithU]

Now, I think we were asked not to continue this discussion in this thread. Perhaps we should respect that request.

I looked back and the only person that I found that had asked not to talk about praying to Saints...was you.

Perhaps it is because you felt cornered. of course you may be are correct. It can be separated into a subtopic of this thread on another thread. But they are with out a doubt related.


You continue to post links of sites that will only support the Catholic worship of Mary and saints. So what does that prove. Praying to God through any other name than Jesus is idolatry. Plain and simple.

Instead of posted links to Catholic sites. You may try posting scripture that supports you praying to people.
:

 

[JayR]

I understand the point that God commanded Moses to make cherubim over the tabernacle, but there is an enourmous difference between doing something that God commands and directly disobeying one of His commandments. Let's define the word idol. An idol is a man made representation of God. The commandment says not to make them, and also, not to worship or serve them. You may not be worshipping or serving them, but that doesn't change the fact that you have already broken the commandment by merely making them. I'm talking primarily about statues and pictures of Jesus. They are idols. They are images made to represent God, and God says not to do that.

"Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he takes up the isles as a very little thing. And lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. All nations before Him as are nothing; and they are counted to Him less than nothing, and vanity. To whom then will you liken God? or what likeness will you compare to Him? The workman melts a graven image, and the goldsmith spreads it over with gold, and casts silver chains. He that is so impoverished that he has no oblation chooses a tree that will not rot; he seeks for himself a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved. Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is He that sits upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants therof are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in: That brings the princes to nothing; He makes the judges of the earth as vanity. Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and He shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble. To whom then will you liken me, or shall I be equal? Says the Holy One."

He is talking to you. He is saying, Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? God is not a statue, and His likeness cannot be contained with the worksmanship of men. Images that are made in order to represent God are idols, and a direct transgression of the Second Commandment. Here is an example of the catholic church living and teaching iniquity, and denying the word of God by justifying themselves based on church tradition. That is exactly what the Pharisees did. They made void the commandment of God by their tradition.

"Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?â€Â
He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:


‘ This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of menâ€â€the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.â€Â
He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corbanâ€Ââ€â€Ã¢â‚¬â„¢ (that is, a gift to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.â€Â

Your church teaches you that it's alright to make graven images and representations of God, and by holding to the tradition you make void the commandment of God. You so hold to the traditions that they blind you from holding to the word of God in truth. You interpret the word of God based on catholic tradition rather than what it is actually saying. It says, YOU SHALL NOT CREATE UNTO THEE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE. YOU SHALL NOT CREATE UNTO THEE ANY IDOL. YOU SHALL NOT CREATE UNTO THEE ANY IMAGE MADE TO REPRESENT GOD. Are you going to be a Pharisee and make void that commandments because your church says it's alright? Who gave the catholic church the authority to overrule the commandments of God? The Pope? The Pope is a fallen sinner who aside from the grace of God would be a seething banshee of iniquity equal in evil to the devil himself, like the rest of is, is he able to overrule the commandments of God? Obey the one you profess to love and don't pervert His glory and disobey His direct command by creating disgusting idols supposively made in His image. That is iniquity.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I looked back and the only person that I found that had asked not to talk about praying to Saints...was you.

You did not look very hard. "biblecatholic" said: "I moved the topic of praying to saints to the proper forum if you want to discuss it there. The mods try to keep it in order when possible. And it's easier to discuss one topic at a time. Many times people will throw 10 doctrines at you at once and the discussion doesn't go so well".

Of course, considering how you can't read the Bible properly, I don't expext you to read the thread any better.

Perhaps it is because you felt cornered.

Cornered? By your anemic apologia? Hardly. The great saints and doctors of the Church spanning 2000 years are on my side. The Eastern Orthodox, the Coptics, the Traditional Anglicans and more are on my side. Your 500 year old heresy does not concern me in the least.

You continue to post links of sites that will only support the Catholic worship of Mary and saints. So what does that prove. Praying to God through any other name than Jesus is idolatry. Plain and simple.

I post sites that give a multitude of pertinant scripture quotes. The fact that you would rather parrot anti-Catholic rhetoric instead of seeking understanding demonstrates your lack of interest in the facts.
And, Catholics do not worship Mary. That is just a flat lie. If you must lie to support your position, that speaks volumes about your brand of Christianity.

Instead of posted links to Catholic sites. You may try posting scripture that supports you praying to people.

Very well:
When we pray to those who have gone to heaven ahead of us, we are making a "request" of them. And what is that request? It is that THEY pray for US. Protestants do it all the time, but they limit themselves to making this request only of people still on earth. In this, the protestant view of the Church is very narrow. You see, Romans 8: 38-39 says: "neither death nor life.. ..present nor the future.. ..height nor depth.. ..will be able to separate us...".; The Family of God transcends death. We ALL LIVE IN CHRIST.

Heb 12: 22-24 says that as we approach God, Jesus and the angels, we also approach "the spirits of righteous men made perfect". In other words, THE SAINTS

BUT, can they Hear Us? Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. For example, in Revelation 5:8, John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Oh, the intercession of fellow Christians in heaven also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God"

 

[Catholic Crusader]

... It says, YOU SHALL NOT CREATE UNTO THEE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE. YOU SHALL NOT CREATE UNTO THEE ANY IDOL. YOU SHALL NOT CREATE UNTO THEE ANY IMAGE MADE TO REPRESENT GOD. Are you going to be a Pharisee and make void that commandments...

Idolatry is placing something above God, and an idol is that what you place above God, or another god. Artwork is not idols. Its as simple as that.
And if you think I only hold to Catholic traditions, perhaps you can explain why Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox and Coptics also have such statuary and artwork? Perhaps you can explain why so many protestant churches have paintings of Jesus?

 

[GraceBwithU]

You did not look very hard. "biblecatholic" said: "I moved the topic of praying to saints to the proper forum if you want to discuss it there. The mods try to keep it in order when possible. And it's easier to discuss one topic at a time. Many times people will throw 10 doctrines at you at once and the discussion doesn't go so well".

OK, another Catholic, that makes your point even less meaningful. But I did edit my post probably as you were typing this response. I agreed that it should probably be a separate discussion.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

...You so hold to the traditions...

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NEdWnjvqHw

 

[JayR]

"neither death nor life.. ..present nor the future.. ..height nor depth.. ..will be able to separate us...".

Here is you mangling horribly a wonderful passage and minsunderstanding it in order to justify your iniquity. This passage that you mangled is not talking about nothing being able to seperate the saints, it is talking absolutely that nothing will seperate us from CHRIST.

Heb 12: 22-24 says that as we approach God, Jesus and the angels, we also approach "the spirits of righteous men made perfect". In other words, THE SAINTS

Here is the catholic misunderstanding of the word saint. Saints aren't only dead people. Have you read Corinthians?

Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also:

Are these people collecting money to give to dead people? Are you kidding me?

"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,To the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia:

Is Paul writing an epistle to a bunch of dead people? Are you kidding me?

To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,

Was Paul dead when he wrote this epistle? Are you kidding me?

Paul and Timothy, bondservants of Jesus Christ,To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Is Paul writing this epistle as well to a bunch of dead people? Are you kidding me?

Saints aren't only dead people glorified with Christ. Saints are any man woman or child who has been born again of the Spirit of God and is a member of the body of Christ. When the Bible talks about praying for the saints, it isn't talking about praying for dead people who are in the hands of God and in the fellowship of God who don't need prayer at all, it is talking about praying for the saints on earth who are still in their fallen flesh and who battle against the world, the flesh, and the devil.

BUT, can they Hear Us? Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. For example, in Revelation 5:8, John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Another mangling of Scripture and horrible misinterpretation due to your misunderstanding of the word saint. The saints and the prayers being talked about here are the prayers of those who were on earth and who are alive. The dead saints aren't the ones holding and offering the golden vials, the elders and the beasts are.

Clearly, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God"

Sure, but the Bible doesn't teach to pray to or for dead people. It is talking about praying for living people. You know what I mean too, I'm talking about the saints who need prayer, not the ones who ran the race and who God has glorified and given victory, but the ones who are still struggling with the world, the flesh, and the devil, who actually need prayer.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

MORE SCRIPTURE:

IN Exodus 20:3-6 God forbids making graven images for the purpose of idolatry but does not forbid the making of graven images per se. Elsewhere he commands that statues and other graven images be carved for religious purposes. The Catholic Church permits statues because they remind us of unseen things, but it condemns the idolatry of statue worship.

"[The Lord said] make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end. . ." (Ex. 25:18-19).

"You shall make the tabernacle with . . . cherubim skillfully worked" (Ex. 26:1).

"The Lord said to Moses, `Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.' So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole" (Num. 21:8-9).

"He made two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high. . . . He put the cherubim in the innermost part of the Temple . . . And he overlaid the cherubim with gold. He carved all the walls of the Temple round about with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees and open flowers" (1 Kgs. 6:23, 27-29).

"[The brazen sea] stood upon [statues of] twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east" (1 Kgs. 7:25).

"And on the surfaces of its stays and on its panels, he carved cherubim, lions, and palm trees, according to the space of each, with wreaths round about" (1 Kgs. 7:36).

 

[JayR]

Idolatry is placing something above God, and an idol is that what you place above God, or another god. Artwork is not idols. Its as simple as that.
And if you think I only hold to Catholic traditions, perhaps you can explain why Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox and Coptics also have such statuary and artwork? Perhaps you can explain why so many protestant churches have paintings of Jesus?

You're wrong, and if you don't realize it in this life you most definately will when you stand before God in judgment. It doesn't matter who makes images of God, they are breaking the Second Commandment.

 

[JayR]

Notice how God never commands, make a statue of me skillfully worked, so that you can be reminded of me. He doesn't say that because He doesn't command people to break His commandments and making images of God is idolatry.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

....It doesn't matter who makes images of God, they are breaking the Second Commandment.

Okay. You are entitled to your opinion. We shall agree to differ. This arguing is starting to put me in a bad place. You are a Christian brother, despite our differences. I do not want to let differences over ride that fact.