He died for the seed of abraham

[savedbygrace57]

oly:

Christ didn't exculsively die for the seed of Abraham

Yes He did..Only the seed of Abraham...

 

[glorydaz]

oly:

Christ didn't exculsively die for the seed of Abraham

Yes He did..Only the seed of Abraham...

Here we go again......

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Lord Jesus christ died exclusively for the seed of Abraham..located in all nations of the world gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

 

[olympia]

Even if 57 won't be convienced may this will erace any doubt in the mind of those who are not sure for whom our Savior died.

Isaiah 54:1, "Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.
2)Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3) For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
4) Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
5) For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; THE GOD OF THE WHOLE EARTH SHALL HE BE CALLED."

II Cor 5:19: "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..."

 

[savedbygrace57]

Even if 57 won't be convienced may this will erace any doubt in the mind of those who are not sure for whom our Savior died.

Isaiah 54:1, "Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.
2)Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3) For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
4) Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
5) For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; THE GOD OF THE WHOLE EARTH SHALL HE BE CALLED."

II Cor 5:19: "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..."

He died for the seed of Abraham, which were men and women of all nations Gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Salvation is of the Jews & the True Worshippers ! -

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Jn 4:


21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

22Ye worship ye know not what: we [True Spiritual Jews] know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

What did Jesus mean here by True Worshippers ? What did Jesus mean by for salvation is of the Jews ?

To answer the latter question, I believe Jesus was speaking of these Jews right here rom 2:


28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I cannot phantom that Jesus was talking about the Jew in vs 28 of romans being the jew of which salvation is of..

I believe Paul and Jesus would agree that the Jew of which salvation is of, is that Jew described in vs 29..Which is a Jew inwardly !

I base my understanding on the fact He is talking about Salvation, which is Spiritual, and was not talking about any earthly, worldly, national worship of God, I get that from vs 23-24 :

23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


I believe that type of worship characterizes the Jews whom Salvation is of, which is described in rom 2:28-29, also phil 3:


3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh [ circumcision which is merely outward of the flesh].

Now is not Paul referring to what Jesus said regarding the type of worshippers the Father seeks in jn 4:23-24 ? Are not those the Jews that Paul describes in rom 2 : 28-29 ?

So salvation is of the Spiritual Jews of rom 2: 28-29, and not the ethnic jews, but there were some ethnic Jews who were of the Spiritual Jews who by the Grace of God did receive the circumcision of the heart as described in rom 2 : 29, see too col 2:11

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

 

[savedbygrace57]

God promised to save/ Justify a people in Abraham's seed!
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Gen 12:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Paul quotes this verse gal 3:


7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So this blessing of Justification is promised [ see the word shall in gen 12:3] upon all the families or nations of the earth, for remember He was first called Abraham after being told by God that he had been made a Father of many Nations gen 17:5. This Justification comes upon all that the seed of Abraham [Christ] was obedient for rom 5:

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Justification of life vs 18 and made righteous vs 10 are the effects of the obedience of the seed of Abraham to the seed of Abraham, both jew and gentile So even though gen 12:3 does not go into a lot of detail, judging from Paul's comment Gal 3 :8, Abraham was directed to believe in the coming Messiah, of which He would be the Father of a Justified seed [in all nations] through Him. Isa 45:25

In the LORD [Jesus Christ] shall all the seed of Israel [seed of Abraham, both jew and gentile] be justified, and shall glory.

It has been written, that Abraham rejoiced [spiritual gladness] to see His day Jn 8:56.

 

[Packrat]

Acts 11:18 This conclusion stemmed from a vision from God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Acts 11:18 This conclusion stemmed from a vision from God.

Yes because Abraham's children were also in the gentiles gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

 

[Dave...]

The promise made to Abraham that he would be the Father of many nations was not realised in his life time. It wasn't until Pentecost. See Romans 11.

Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.



Also, be careful when assuming the definitions of words like "world". Rarely in scripture does "world" mean every last individual. It generally means Jew and Gentile. Here's an example...

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

John 11:51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

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1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

John 11:51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

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1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

John 11:51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

 

[chestertonrules]

That Jesus christ came and Identifed with , the seed of abraham, and died for the seed of abraham, and rose again for the Justification of the seed of abraham...This is the Gospel of the Kingdom..

Yes, no doubt, all are sinners, but not all sinners are of the seed of abraham..__________________

True.

Only those who choose to follow God's grace are the seed of Abraham.

Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

 

[Dave...]

Think about the implications of this passage in light of this discussion.

John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.†33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

 

[Packrat]

Acts 11:18 This conclusion stemmed from a vision from God.

Yes because Abraham's children were also in the gentiles gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Cornelius was a Roman of the Italian regiment. Peter, after having his vision, said that he had come to bring the message of Good News to Cornelius and his household that they (this included Cornelius) may be saved. It's doubtful the Romans of Italy were of the seed of Abraham. However, I do believe many Arabs, including the Midianites were of the seed of Abraham.

 

[savedbygrace57]

pack:

Cornelius was a Roman

So, He was of the seed of Abraham as a Believer in Christ. Gal 3:

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Think about the implications of this passage in light of this discussion.

John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.†33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

Yes, Jesus would draw all nationalities to Himself who are of the spiritual seed of Abraham.

Gen 12:

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee [ thy seed] shall all families of the earth be blessed.

All Nations here means all men, or nationalities.

Peter quotes this same verse but says " in thy seed shall all the Families of the earth be blessed "

acts 3:25

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

 

[Packrat]

pack:

Cornelius was a Roman

So, He was of the seed of Abraham as a Believer in Christ. Gal 3:

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Hey, I have no beef with that. I was just concerned that you were saying only the physical heritage groups of the Jews and Arabs could be saved. Carry on. :D

 

[savedbygrace57]

pack:

Cornelius was a Roman

So, He was of the seed of Abraham as a Believer in Christ. Gal 3:

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Hey, I have no beef with that. I was just concerned that you were saying only the physical heritage groups of the Jews and Arabs could be saved. Carry on. :D

No I never said that, I am speaking about a Spiritual seed.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Made of a women for who ?



Gal 4:

4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

The objects of redemption when Christ was made of a women, that is, when He was made Flesh and Blood, it was not for all of mankind, but for the seed of Abraham per Heb 2:


14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

His Flesh and Blood Identification, when made under the Law, born of a women [ The virgin birth] was limited to a certain segment of mankind, the seed of Abraham.

And this seed, was not limited to a certain segment of mankind, as the jews may have thought, but it consisted in all who would believe in Christ, jew or gentile Gal 3:29

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So, Christ was made under the Law, born of a women, to redeem the seed of Abraham, all those who should believe in Him through the Spirit of adoption !

Redemption secures unto Christ believers in Him [of the seed of Abraham], by the Working of the Spirit of Adoption !

 

[savedbygrace57]

In being made of a woman and made under law, He took on the seed of Abraham and not the seed of mankind in general, for all mankind is not the Seed of Abraham heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Now in taking on the seed of Abraham, Paul says that He was made sin for us !

2 cor 5:

21For he hath made him to be sin for us [The seed of Abraham], who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Who are the us in 2 cor 5 21 that Paul is referring to ? Is it all mankind without exception ? No it is not. Let us examine the scripture to find the answer. " When the fulness of time had come, God sent forth His own Son [meaning He was God's Son before Mary's Son], made of a women, made under the law, to redeem [ not to make redemption possible] them [ His members, His body] that were under the Law [Limited redemption]that [in order that] they may receive the adoption of Sons.

Now coming as such [ under the law] He came and took upon Him the seed of Abraham. The seed of Abraham is a chosen people !

PS 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

So its plain that He came and Identified with and to redeem a Chosen People, and not the whole world of mankind.

In taking on the seed of Abraham, He took on all their Transgressions, and died for their sins !

Isa 53:

4Surely he hath borne our [seed of Abraham] griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed [The seed of Abraham], he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many [The seed of Abraham]; for he shall bear their [The seed of Abraham] iniquities.

1 cor 15:

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our [The seed of Abraham] sins according to the scriptures;

Yes, in all places above where we see the pronouns our, us, we, their, it refers to the seed of Abraham !

Lets not forget it is written that He took on the seed of Abraham Heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 

[LostSoul]

Don't really know what you're trying to say, but all I need to know is "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

The world last I knew meant ALL....

While the Jews were God's central focus, He had compassion on the rest of us according to that passage.

So have no clue why the seed of Abraham alone would be the subject matter here.