He died for the seed of abraham

[savedbygrace57]

burr:

So have no clue why the seed of Abraham alone would be the subject matter here.

Have you read the op and the rest of my posts in this thread ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

More on the accomplishment of the Atonement !



In taking on the seed of Abraham, being made sin for us, what does this mean ? Does it mean that He actually became sin , as I understand some believe ? No, not at all; but what it does mean is that He became our sin offering, by bearing our sins Isa 53:

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The word bare in this verse is the hebrew word
nasa' and means:

to cause one to bear (iniquity)

To receive the punishment of sin upon oneself for others !

Heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1 pet 2:

24Who his own self bare our [seed of Abraham] sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 jn 3:

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our [seed of Abraham] sins; and in him is no sin.

Like the scape goat, He bare away the sins of Israel, that is took them away cp jn 1:

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Lets not forget in this connection that it is written that he took on the seed of Abraham heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

For it was with this seed only He stood Identified with, in lieu of the seed of the serpent !

It was for this seed he bare their sins in His body on the tree, for it was as the seed of Abraham that he was recognized by the law and justice of God, as being responsible for their sins. So He was made a sin offering for their sins, bearing their sins in His body on the Tree.

 

[Elijah674]

More on the accomplishment of the Atonement !



In taking on the seed of Abraham, being made sin for us, what does this mean ? Does it mean that He actually became sin , as I understand some believe ? No, not at all; but what it does mean is that He became our sin offering, by bearing our sins Isa 53:

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The word bare in this verse is the hebrew word
nasa' and means:

to cause one to bear (iniquity)

To receive the punishment of sin upon oneself for others !

Heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1 pet 2:

24Who his own self bare our [seed of Abraham] sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 jn 3:

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our [seed of Abraham] sins; and in him is no sin.

Like the scape goat, He bare away the sins of Israel, that is took them away cp jn 1:

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Lets not forget in this connection that it is written that he took on the seed of Abraham heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

For it was with this seed only He stood Identified with, in lieu of the seed of the serpent !

It was for this seed he bare their sins in His body on the tree, for it was as the seed of Abraham that he was recognized by the law and justice of God, as being responsible for their sins. So He was made a sin offering for their sins, bearing their sins in His body on the Tree.

So you concur with the scape/goat Truth?? It is hard to think how the Godhead who has the Eternal Rev. 14:6 Gospel in Forknowledge could or would allow for all three of them to suffer as they all had on the cross, for the ones who they KNEW IN ETERNITY would be lost!

I do think that up to the time that these ones sinned the sin against the Holy Spirit (Fullness) there might be some more knowledge found?

--Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

Its always only been a seed that shall be saved !
The seed of Abraham is the seed of David, Christ is said to be of both.

Gal 3:16

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And David rom 1:3

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

2 tim 2:8

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Remember Paul preached in acts 13:

22And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

23Of this man's[David] seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

And its through this understanding, that we know who it is Jesus Christ saves from their Sins, a seed..

Ps 89:

3I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

4Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The seed of Abraham, those Christ died for, are those who shall partake of the same Faith as their Father Abraham did Gal 3:


9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Abraham was promised a offspring that would be of Faith rom 4:

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

He was their[believers] Father before they were born premised on this promise and declaration Gen 17:


5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

In vs 5 God uses the word made as in made him [Abraham] a Father of many nations, the word is in the perfect tense, which is past tense.. So God was revealing to Abraham what He has done for Abraham, He made Him a Father of Many Nations..And to this seed, He would be a God to vs 7 so this means they will be believers in Him..

All these will receive the same Gift of Faith as their Father Abraham, hence being the children of promise as Isaac was...

So Faith is the gift to seed of Abraham in every generation vs 7, so this Faith to the seed of Abraham, jew and gentile, flows to them from the blessings of the everlasting covenant. For God unconditionally and Sovereignly establishes this covenant vs 7

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

This is not a matter of man's freewill, but of God's Power and Faithfulness !
​

 

[zone]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Talking about the Limited intent of the atonement, there is perhaps no scripture that declares it more plainly than this one..

That the GodMan Mediatoral came to identify with the choice people he came to die for..not all of mankind, but the seed of abraham, that is a chosen people..

ps 105:

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

isa 41:

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend

remember Jesus said :

jn 15:

13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.[chosen ones]

When paul declared in 1 cor 15:

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

our sins = The seed of abraham..

heb 2:

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren[seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people[seed of abraham].

Notice, it says made like unto His brethern, which is the seed of abraham..

This is the same brethern as in rom 8:

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Yes, the seed of abraham is distinguished and particular, but the scope was broad, the scope was the world, and not Just israel..

rom 4:

18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

So, yes limited atonement is true, and must be preached truthfully or you have no gospel..

That Jesus christ came and Identifed with , the seed of abraham, and died for the seed of abraham, and rose again for the Justification of the seed of abraham...This is the Gospel of the Kingdom..

Yes, no doubt, all are sinners, but not all sinners are of the seed of abraham..__________________

i guess we should all hope we are Israelites then.

not even going to bother with the rest of this thread.

any idea what the allegory of galatians is about?

any clue what was the mystery revealed in Ephesians?

 

[savedbygrace57]

zone:

i guess we should all hope we are Israelites then.

The seed of Abraham are believers in Christ made up of jews and gentiles Gal 3:


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Is it your belief that only ethnic jews belong to Christ ?

 

[zone]

zone:



The seed of Abraham are believers in Christ made up of jews and gentiles Gal 3:


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Is it your belief that only ethnic jews belong to Christ ?

this is your OP.
you are pushing LIMITED ATONEMENT.

Christ's Blood is sufficient to pay for an infinite number of sins if they be piled from eternity to eternity.

to suggest anything else is sickening.

if you are planning to discuss whether or not all men will be saved, that's another matter.

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Talking about the Limited intent of the atonement, there is perhaps no scripture that declares it more plainly than this one..

That the GodMan Mediatoral came to identify with the choice people he came to die for..not all of mankind, but the seed of abraham, that is a chosen people..

ps 105:

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

isa 41:

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend

remember Jesus said :

jn 15:

13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.[chosen ones]

When paul declared in 1 cor 15:

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

our sins = The seed of abraham..

heb 2:

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren[seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people[seed of abraham].

Notice, it says made like unto His brethern, which is the seed of abraham..

This is the same brethern as in rom 8:

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Yes, the seed of abraham is distinguished and particular, but the scope was broad, the scope was the world, and not Just israel..

rom 4:

18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

So, yes limited atonement is true, and must be preached truthfully or you have no gospel..

That Jesus christ came and Identifed with , the seed of abraham, and died for the seed of abraham, and rose again for the Justification of the seed of abraham...This is the Gospel of the Kingdom..

Yes, no doubt, all are sinners, but not all sinners are of the seed of abraham..__________________

 

[savedbygrace57]

zone:

this is your OP.

I will ask you again, do you believe only jews belong to Christ ?

Scripture plainly say's if you be Christ, then are ye Abraham's seed gal 3:

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You believe paul limited this to only ethnic jews ?

 

[Scotth1960]

Sorry, 2 Peter 2:1 does not say "those born to be destroyed" but rather ""even denying the Master who bought them".

This is just where I part (theological) company with Calvinist doctrine. It's not something that I break fellowship over, but I've heard Calvinists dancing around this issue for 25 years now, and they never reconcile the very clear teachings of texts like 2 Peter 2:1 and all the other texts that show that Christ died for the world.

Dear handy, You are an honest woman. It is clear people who wish to push Calvinism do not understand the Christ died for all people. Not all people believe. So the Calvinist falsely reasons that because some do not believe in Christ, Christ must not have died for them who believe not. Where does Scripture say that? I believe it is in 1 John, Christ died for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sin(s) of the whole world. Clearly no Calvinism there. In Erie Scott Harrington

 

[savedbygrace57]

All Jews by Birth are not the seed of Abraham in a specific sense!



Jn 8:



37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.




Jesus did not believe all physical jews were Abraham's children in a very special certain regard !

Now it is obvious from the passage above that He considers it true that the physical jews are abraham's seed vs

37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

But in another sense He does not vs

39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Why is That ?

Jesus said to the physical jews that sought to kill Him, If Abraham was your Father you would not seek to kill me, for He stated that this Abraham did not do !

Lets think about this statement in vs 40 " This did not Abraham " Do what ? Seek to Kill Him ! When was there time when Abraham could have sought to kill Him , the Man Jesus Christ..

Would this statement make sense if Christ was not a Man before and Abraham saw Him thusly ? When could this had been in the history of Abraham's life ? Was Jesus one of the Three Men that appeared to Abraham in gen 18:

1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

But now, back to the text, in a real sense, one cannot be a child of Abraham until they evidence the deeds of Abraham vs

39They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

The Fact of the matter is this The physical descendants of Abraham to include jews, were not the children of God rom 9:


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Scotth1960]

this is your OP.
you are pushing LIMITED ATONEMENT.

Christ's Blood is sufficient to pay for an infinite number of sins if they be piled from eternity to eternity.

to suggest anything else is sickening.

if you are planning to discuss whether or not all men will be saved, that's another matter.

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Friend, 1 John 2:2 would better be translated as "He is the expiation for our sins". Not a mere propitiation (appeasing) of the wrath of God the Father (for because of Christ God is not wrathful, but merciful), but a removing of the offense , of the sins themselves. "The Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world." He literally takes them away, all of our many sins, upon His Cross of Christ. He does this for all who repent. We must believe in Christ, for without faith it is impossible to please God. And then He takes away all of our sins. He is also the expiation "for the sins of the whole world", whatever that means. Certainly He does require repentance, for without that, God does not live in a person. Certainly, for sins to be removed, people must trust in Christ. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[tim-from-pa]

savedbygrace57:

Wow. This thread is talking a lot about the Abrahamic Covenant. However, regarding "many nations" that is physical nations from actual descendants, and by extension people on the outside can join in (racially diverse nations). These same Abrahmic nations, in turn, were traditionally Christian so that "outsider" nations that joined them enjoyed the same blessings.

There are chosen people of race (genealogy), and chosen of grace. The former, although having the many blessings of Abraham are not necessarily spiritually saved but only a physical seed of Abraham, and the latter do not have to be a literal descendant of Abraham. Then again, many are from both chosen by race and grace.

Have you ever read "Judah's Sceptre / Joseph's birthright" by the Methodist minister J.H. Allen?

Initially, you sounded like you were on that track, but then as I read more of your posts I sense you are only seeing the spiritual (as most Christians do) side of the coin instead of the earthly blessings as well.

 

[zone]

zone:



I will ask you again, do you believe only jews belong to Christ ?

Scripture plainly say's if you be Christ, then are ye Abraham's seed gal 3:

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You believe paul limited this to only ethnic jews ?

no i do not.
i was using irony.
limited atonement is the same concept.

 

[zone]

Friend, 1 John 2:2 would better be translated as "He is the expiation for our sins". Not a mere propitiation (appeasing) of the wrath of God the Father (for because of Christ God is not wrathful, but merciful), but a removing of the offense , of the sins themselves. "The Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world." He literally takes them away, all of our many sins, upon His Cross of Christ. He does this for all who repent. We must believe in Christ, for without faith it is impossible to please God. And then He takes away all of our sins. He is also the expiation "for the sins of the whole world", whatever that means. Certainly He does require repentance, for without that, God does not live in a person. Certainly, for sins to be removed, people must trust in Christ. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

thanks.
i know the doctrine.
i was taking issue with hyper-calvinism/limited atonement in the OP.

 

[zone]

savedbygrace57:

Wow. This thread is talking a lot about the Abrahamic Covenant. However, regarding "many nations" that is physical nations from actual descendants, and by extension people on the outside can join in (racially diverse nations). These same Abrahmic nations, in turn, were traditionally Christian so that "outsider" nations that joined them enjoyed the same blessings.

There are chosen people of race (genealogy), and chosen of grace. The former, although having the many blessings of Abraham are not necessarily spiritually saved but only a physical seed of Abraham, and the latter do not have to be a literal descendant of Abraham. Then again, many are from both chosen by race and grace.

Have you ever read "Judah's Sceptre / Joseph's birthright" by the Methodist minister J.H. Allen?

Initially, you sounded like you were on that track, but then as I read more of your posts I sense you are only seeing the spiritual (as most Christians do) side of the coin instead of the earthly blessings as well.

British-Israelism

 

[Scotth1960]

More on the accomplishment of the Atonement !



In taking on the seed of Abraham, being made sin for us, what does this mean ? Does it mean that He actually became sin , as I understand some believe ? No, not at all; but what it does mean is that He became our sin offering, by bearing our sins Isa 53:

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The word bare in this verse is the hebrew word
nasa' and means:

to cause one to bear (iniquity)

To receive the punishment of sin upon oneself for others !

Heb 9:

28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1 pet 2:

24Who his own self bare our [seed of Abraham] sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 jn 3:

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our [seed of Abraham] sins; and in him is no sin.

Like the scape goat, He bare away the sins of Israel, that is took them away cp jn 1:

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Lets not forget in this connection that it is written that he took on the seed of Abraham heb 2:

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

For it was with this seed only He stood Identified with, in lieu of the seed of the serpent !

It was for this seed he bare their sins in His body on the tree, for it was as the seed of Abraham that he was recognized by the law and justice of God, as being responsible for their sins. So He was made a sin offering for their sins, bearing their sins in His body on the Tree.

Dear friends, Isaiaih 53:11 in the NIV, "After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life, and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify man, and he will bear their iniquities".
Beware of any version of Isaiah 53:11 that omits the word "light" or the words "light of life", which is the NIV suggest the light of the resurrected life of Christ. In the ESV, the word light is included in a footnote, and the same, I BELIEVE, in the HCSB. And light is mentioned in the DSSB. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[tim-from-pa]

British-Israelism

Well then, at least you read it even if you do not apparantly agree. I'll give you that much credit. We all have our reasons. :

 

[Glowstique]

Savedbygrace, please tell me what is said in Isaiah 49:6. Are you a Jew??? Because if not, your not one of Abraham's seed as you define it, are you???

 

[savedbygrace57]

zone:

no i do not.

Ok then, He died only for the seed of Abraham, which are not only jews, but all those who are Christ, jew or gentile gal 3:

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

He died for His own People as it was said He would do Matt 1:


21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His People are the seed of Abraham He identified with in the flesh heb 2:16

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.