Bible Study Hebrews: Let's talk about it

[JohnD]

11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end..." (Hebrews 6:11 NASB)

The author is connecting having the assurance of salvation, and having it to the end, to what?

Eternal security.

Setting aside the OSAS argument (as instructed to), the Jew was used to a system of sin and sacrifice sin and sacrifice sin and sacrifice sin and sacrifice. This new system is sin is paid for once. And that it is not atoned for but taken clear away. Forever.

 

[eddif]

This is one of the hardest subjects to get into when you are a Gentile.

Hebrews is a Hebrew talking to Hebrews. Jews presented the gospel to Jew and Gentile alike. I received the gospel because of Jewish authors. I need the Jewish heritage to even start to understand. The Gentiles were without God and undone in their sins. With all humble thoughts I would love to see this thread prosper. Put the rolling pin to us admen.

eddif

 

[reba]

@eddit
I kinda think this verse from Romans sums it up ...Rom_2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[eddif]

I am the one committing fax paus. I am in violation of standard rules. Rues that give the OP the rights to define and direct direction. If I insist without permission I might as well bid you adieu and depart from the conversation . It is all up to aux bons soins de Jethro and the rules.

eddif

 

[JLB]

I agree. If He loves us it will show. And NOTHING can separate us from His love. Not even ourselves(creation) nor anything future(includes what we do in the future.)

He truly has virtue love. He loves us based upon who and what He is, not based upon who and what we are.

Rom 8:38-39~~38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Does that include hell?

Could God still love someone who is sentenced to the fires of hell, or is that the exception to the scripture you posted?

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Kidron
Yes, I believe on the name of the Son of God,
Anyone can say that, right?

I have to agree here.
John gets very specific and explains how belief in, and love for God is not so much the evidence in and of itself of salvation, but rather what that belief in, and love for God looks like from the outside. The point of Hebrews passage being that what faith looks like on the outside is a source of assurance that we do indeed believe in, and love God and are, therefore, saved.

It's not that fruitless people aren't saved. It's just that they lack that which the Bible tells us is a valuable source of assurance and encouragement that we are indeed safely in covenant salvation with God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

IMHO.
If you wish to start in chapter 6 of Hebrews, there is a place to start.

Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put himto an open shame.
[...]
I would have to leap ahead, but the chapters you have chosen will support the thoughts above.

Instead of backing up let's talk about this when the supporting passages come up.
Will that work for you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Dr. Donald Gray Barnhouse said from the pulpit "we must remember the Book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews to tell the Hebrews to stop being Hebrews and to become Christians." I would say that it is a book written to the physical Hebrews to explain to them that becoming spiritual Hebrews is what God's plan was about all along. And the entire book of Hebrews is as a divine commentary on Jeremiah 31:31-37.

Wow! A theologian I might actually like reading.

I will say, in the case of this book in scripture, knowing the audience was an important point to keep in mind as I read, and reread it over the years.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

IMHO Paul (the writer of Hebrews, anyway) is contrasting the old covenant with the new better covenant.

Which is another foundation upon which the Christian's assurance rests, which the author gets into next.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Setting aside the OSAS argument (as instructed to)...

Amen!

I hope we can talk about assurance itself, not whether you always have that assurance no matter what.

...the Jew was used to a system of sin and sacrifice sin and sacrifice sin and sacrifice sin and sacrifice. This new system is sin is paid for once. And that it is not atoned for but taken clear away. Forever.

I'm curious about 'atonement' vs. what Christ did. We'll have to talk about this when the author gets into that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is one of the hardest subjects to get into when you are a Gentile.

Hebrews is a Hebrew talking to Hebrews. Jews presented the gospel to Jew and Gentile alike. I received the gospel because of Jewish authors. I need the Jewish heritage to even start to understand. The Gentiles were without God and undone in their sins. With all humble thoughts I would love to see this thread prosper. Put the rolling pin to us admen.

eddif

I agree totally. I think our church forefathers did a great disservice to us and the faith by shutting us off from that heritage. That's not an endorsement of law keeping. We need to understand what it is exactly that Christ's sacrifice and ministry fulfills to fully appreciate what he did for us, apart from us. What he did is the basis for the Christian's assurance.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end..." (Hebrews 6:11 NASB)

The author is connecting having the assurance of salvation, and having it to the end, to what?

Diligence.
The diligence of the work and love of serving the saints--that's how a person experiences the complete assurance of hope until this time of faith and waiting are over.

Your faith in Christ in your heart can be an assurance that you are at peace with God, as Kidron points out, but it is when that faith works out in what you do that you gain the full assurance of your relationship with God.

I liken it to Abraham who received the promises of God by faith and indeed knew in his heart without a doubt that God would keep those promises, yet he still asked, "O Lord GOD, how may I know that I will possess it?" (Genesis 15:8 NASB). Perhaps it was when Sarah's belly started growing that he received the full assurance of the hope promised him because it was then that he could see with his eyes that God was keeping his promise to him.

Likewise for us. We know what we believe and are convinced of, and we draw surety from that. But it's when we see the offspring of the Spirit pressing out from our bodies in the form of love, peace, patience, kindness, etc., that we receive the full assurance that God is indeed keeping his promise to us to provide a Son coming from our own bodies (Jesus in us by the Holy Spirit) who will inherit the promises on our behalf, because we can see and feel him in us.

 

[gr8grace3]

Diligence.
The diligence of the work and love of serving the saints--that's how a person experiences the complete assurance of hope until this time of faith and waiting are over.

I disagree. A person could work and serve the saints till they are blue in the face and even love to do it, And not have a clue about their security/hope in Christ.

But if they are ministering/teaching the saints, they would have to be diligent in His word.

If they are diligent in His word. They will KNOW their hope in Christ.

Heb 6:1~~ therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go onto maturity..........They ought to have been teaching by now. Heb 5:12

And Hebrews 6:11 has 3 stages of Christian maturity described in it.

Heb 6:11~~New American Standard Bible
And we(Apostles/teachers) desire that each one of you(believers) show the same diligence(devotion to the Word) so as to realize(spiritual self-esteem) the full assurance of hope(spiritual autonomy) until the end(spiritual maturity),

 

[Kidron]

Kidron
Yes, I believe on the name of the Son of God,
Anyone can say that, right?

I can also say, I love my husband, but what if I go and have an affair, treat him bad?
I think action speaks louder than words.

You can treat your husband any way you want, and you can say what you want anytime you want.
You have free will., and in fact you treat your mate exactly like you want, all the time.
How can it be any other way?.
However, This has nothing to do with the marriage contract that legally binds you to him.
So, if you love him, or if you hate him, or if you are having affairs or robbing banks or whatever..
You cant do anything to become NOT MARRIED to him, based on your behavior.
Behavior didnt marry you to him, nor does it legally un-marry you from him.
So, no matter what you "show" or how you "behave" towards him.... it does not matter, as its the VOW and the Legal Marriage Contract, that creates you to be "married", Legally, and not anything else you personally do, ither before or after.
So, what you are saying is that you show your LOVE, by your behavior, but this has nothing to do with the marriage contract.
Nothing.
Same with being SAVED.
Being SAVED, is an adoption contract that God paid for with the Blood of Christ, and once you are in this contract by "faith", you stay in it based on the contract, (Faith), and not by how good you are today vs how bad you were the day before yesterday.
Salvation is a blood bought contract that ties you eternally to God the Father, through the Son, and you cant undo it because you forgot to not work last Sunday, or you cussed today because your Electric bill was more then you expected when you opened it.

And something to consider.
The Law is a curse to you, as you are unable to keep it, unable to avoid it, until God created a solution to free you from it.
This solution is called "redemption"....in that we are delivered from this curse....."the Law".
Galatians 3:13, ""Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law""
Everything the "law" demands, >> "Grace" provides through Christ.
The law demands justice, >>>> and Grace provided a cross and a body and a resurrection, as the eternal penalty that bought pardon.
Pardon was purchased by the BLOOD of Christ, and nothing else will God accept.
The law demands righteousness, >>>>> and Grace provides it as the "gift of righteousness".
Everything the law requires of YOU, has been provided already, by God, through Christ.
This is why you are redeemed from the law.<<
This is why Faith delivers you from what the Law cant.....its because its Jesus who is providing you with the ESCAPE from the Law that you cant provide yourself.
And that is "Salvation".
We are saved >from< the law, we are delivered from it...we are redeemed from it.....and this is "Grace".

Many troubled and bitter believers, are trying to themselves FINISH what Jesus said... "it is finished".
They spend their entire Christian life in this bitter and impossible trap.
They are trying to FINISH by good deeds or law keeping what is already ...."it is FINISHED".
They dont understand this, they are not shown this, that are even led away from this truth, and that is why they will always fight about works, instead of giving Glory to the One who rescued them for ETERNITY from the Law and offered this "it is finished" to them, as a GIFT of Pardon, as a "Gift of Righteousness.".

 

[gracenote]

Verse 7-12
But beloved, we are persuaded (of=concerning) better things of you, and things that accompany (nigh to, antithesis to "nigh unto cursing, as verse 8, nigh unto cursing), salvation, though we thus speak.

Hold on to, depend on, be close to,

Verse 7
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God.
Meet=fit
By =on account of
Dressed=tilled
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs fit for them on account whom it is tilled.

8;
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing, whose end is to be burned.

10, For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labor of love, which he have shown toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11, And we desire that everyone of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end.
Refer to Heb.3:6,14
But Christ as a son over His Own house, whose house are we if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning if our confidence steadfast unto the end.

If is a small word to have such big meaning!

12; That ye be not slothful, (lazy) but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Refer to Heb.10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

:wink next.,.,.....,

Beautiful! The part about the earth, hoe it "drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it". Wow.
I just LOVE the beauty that's in every verse!

 

[gracenote]

I disagree. A person could work and serve the saints till they are blue in the face and even love to do it, And not have a clue about their security/hope in Christ.

But if they are ministering/teaching the saints, they would have to be diligent in His word.

If they are diligent in His word. They will KNOW their hope in Christ.

Heb 6:1~~ therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go onto maturity..........They ought to have been teaching by now. Heb 5:12

And Hebrews 6:11 has 3 stages of Christian maturity described in it.

Christian maturity. a thing to work towards and then tend and k

Heb 6:11~~New American Standard Bible
And we(Apostles/teachers) desire that each one of you(believers) show the same diligence(devotion to the Word) so as to realize(spiritual self-esteem) the full assurance of hope(spiritual autonomy) until the end(spiritual maturity),

I disagree. A person could work and serve the saints till they are blue in the face and even love to do it, And not have a clue about their security/hope in Christ.

But if they are ministering/teaching the saints, they would have to be diligent in His word.

If they are diligent in His word. They will KNOW their hope in Christ.

Heb 6:1~~ therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go onto maturity..........They ought to have been teaching by now. Heb 5:12

And Hebrews 6:11 has 3 stages of Christian maturity described in it.

Heb 6:11~~New American Standard Bible
And we(Apostles/teachers) desire that each one of you(believers) show the same diligence(devotion to the Word) so as to realize(spiritual self-esteem) the full assurance of hope(spiritual autonomy) until the end(spiritual maturity),

Christian maturity. a thing to work towards and then tend and keep going with . Good point.

 

[dianegcook]

You can treat your husband any way you want, and you can say what you want anytime you want.
You have free will., and in fact you treat your mate exactly like you want, all the time.
How can it be any other way?.
However, This has nothing to do with the marriage contract that legally binds you to him.
So, if you love him, or if you hate him, or if you are having affairs or robbing banks or whatever..
You cant do anything to become NOT MARRIED to him, based on your behavior.
Behavior didnt marry you to him, nor does it legally un-marry you from him.
So, no matter what you "show" or how you "behave" towards him it does not matter, as its the VOW and the Legal Marriage Contract, that creates you to be "married", Legally, and not anything else you personally do, ither before or after.
So, what you are saying is that you show your LOVE, by your behavior, but this has nothing to do with the marriage contract.
Nothing.
Same with being SAVED.
Being SAVED, is an adoption contract that God paid for with the Blood of Christ, and once you are in this contract by "faith", you stay in it based on the contract, (Faith), and not by how good you are today vs how bad you were the day before yesterday.
Salvation is a blood bought contract that ties you eternally to God the Father, through the Son, and you cant undo it because you forgot to not work last Sunday, or you cussed today because your power bill was more then you expected when you opened it.

And something to consider.
The Law is a curse to you, as you are unable to keep it, unable to avoid it, until God created a solution to free you from it.
This solution is called "redemption"....in that we are delivered from this curse....."the Law".
Galatians 3:13, ""Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law""
Everything the "law" demands, >> "Grace" provides through Christ.
The law demands justice, >>>> and Grace provided a cross and a body and a resurrection, as the eternal penalty that bought pardon.
Pardon was purchased by the BLOOD of Christ, and nothing else will God accept.
The law demands righteousness, >>>>> and Grace provides it as the "gift of righteousness".
Everything the law requires of YOU, has been provided already, by God, through Christ.
This is why you are redeemed from the law.<<
This is why Faith delivers you from what the Law cant.....its because its Jesus who is providing you with the ESCAPE from the Law that you cant provide yourself.
And that is "Salvation".
We are saved >from< the law, we are delivered from it...we are redeemed from it.....and this is "Grace".

Many troubled and bitter believers, are trying to themselves FINISH what Jesus said "it is finished".
They spend their entire Christian life in this bitter and impossible trap.
They are trying to FINISH by good deeds or law keeping what is already ...."it is FINISHED".
They dont understand this, they are not shown this, that are even led away from this truth, and that is why they will always fight about works, instead of giving Glory to the One who rescued them for ETERNITY from the Law and offered this "it is finished" to them, as a GIFT of Pardon, as a "Gift of Righteousness."...

Hi Kidron
I can divorce him, as God divorced Israel.
Jer.4:8
Why?
Whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery.
God is the same today, yesterday and 4ever.

You are correct however, we know longer have to do the ordinances contained in the law. Eph.2:15, Col.2:14
We don't have to sacrifice animals anymore, He was our sacrificial Lamb, no flesh circumcision, circumcised in our hearts, the law written in our hearts.

If we have the spirit in us, we will follow the commandments.
Cause if we love God and have the spirit in us,
We will not,
Have other gods,
We will not steal,
We will not murder,
We will not covet,
And so forth.....
John 14:15
If ye love Me, keep my commandments.

 

[Deborah13]

Being SAVED, is an adoption contract that God paid for with the Blood of Christ, and once you are in this contract by "faith", you stay in it based on the contract, (Faith), and not by how good you are today vs how bad you were the day before yesterday.

Not disagreeing with you just saying....
God did not make a contract with us. The covenant promises were made to His Son. So it is our faith that through Him we will receive salvation.
It is comforting to know, that unlike myself, the Son is always faithful. He will never break the covenant.

 

[dianegcook]

Also kidron,
I believe when He said it was finished, meant it was done what ye came here to do for the first advent, for bearing our sins on the cross, and blotting out ordinances contained in the law, being that sacrificial Lamb.

Ordinances=rituals

Col.2:14
Blotting out the handwriting OF ORDINANCES, that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

This does not say nailing the commandments on the cross.
As in Eph.2:15
Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

Matt.5:17,18
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled.

Has heaven and earth pass away?

Then it goes on to say things even stricter, imho, about the law.
Verses 21,22
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time,
Thou shalt not kill, and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

Also, verse 27,28
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery;

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[gracenote]

Also kidron,
I believe when He said it was finished, meant it was done what ye came here to do for the first advent, for bearing our sins on the cross, and blotting out ordinances contained in the law, being that sacrificial Lamb.

Ordinances=rituals

Col.2:14
Blotting out the handwriting OF ORDINANCES, that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

This does not say nailing the commandments on the cross.
As in Eph.2:15
Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

Matt.5:17,18
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled.

Has heaven and earth pass away?

Then it goes on to say things even stricter, imho, about the law.
Verses 21,22
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time,
Thou shalt not kill, and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

Also, verse 27,28
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery;

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Both must also have to apply to women, too. I know how I once yearned (read: lusted after) certain men. Lust can be a dangerous trap.
Nowadays, I try to live my life as much as possible by Galatians 5