Bible Study Hebrews: Let's talk about it

[gr8grace3]

Being SAVED, is an adoption contract that God paid for with the Blood of Christ, and once you are in this contract by "faith", you stay in it based on the contract, (Faith), and not by how good you are today vs how bad you were the day before yesterday.

Faith is the only perception for us that is non-meritorious. Our faith has no merit in and of itself. It is the object(Jesus Christ) of our faith that has the merit. If it was our faith that saves us or keeps us saved, we could believe in anything and be saved.

I believe we stay in the contract(Adoption,yes it is a contract and Paul use the analogy of the Roman citizen adoption) based on His Grace. Not the fact that we continue to have faith after we have made that one time, non-meritorious choice to believe upon Him alone for salvation. It is not the price we pay to continue in the faith. It is the price He paid when we first believed.

1 Cor 6:19~~New American Standard Bible
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
1 Cor 6:20~~New American Standard Bible
For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Religion~~Try to glorify God in your flesh, continue in your faith,continue in your good works,continue in your obedience,continue in your love and you might of paid a high enough price and you might be a temple for the Holy Spirit.

 

[gr8grace3]

Also kidron,
I believe when He said it was finished, meant it was done what ye came here to do for the first advent, for bearing our sins on the cross, and blotting out ordinances contained in the law, being that sacrificial Lamb.

Ordinances=rituals

Col.2:14
Blotting out the handwriting OF ORDINANCES, that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

This does not say nailing the commandments on the cross.
As in Eph.2:15
Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace.

Matt.5:17,18
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets, I am not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, til all be fulfilled.

Has heaven and earth pass away?

Then it goes on to say things even stricter, imho, about the law.
Verses 21,22
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time,
Thou shalt not kill, and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

Also, verse 27,28
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery;

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her, hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The IOU is cancelled that the law brought upon sinners. Christ nailed the IOU to the Cross.

Many,many,many unbelievers follow the law(10 commandments/establishment principles for a nation,believers and unbelievers alike) and are not saved. The 10 commandments are not the Christian way of life.

We do not learn spiritual skills from keeping the 10 commandments. We learn spiritual skills from growing in the GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[dianegcook]

The IOU is cancelled that the law brought upon sinners. Christ nailed the IOU to the Cross.

Many,many,many unbelievers follow the law(10 commandments/establishment principles for a nation,believers and unbelievers alike) and are not saved. The 10 commandments are not the Christian way of life.

We do not learn spiritual skills from keeping the 10 commandments. We learn spiritual skills from growing in the GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord Jesus Christ.

What does the spiritual skill say about, having other gods?
What does the spiritual skills say about coveting?
What does the spiritual skills say about stealing?
What does the spiritual skills say about murdering?
What does the spiritual skills say about bearing false witness?
My spirit says, don't do it!, lol

By the way, how do you grow in grace and knowledge?
By the spirit?

Gr8grace3
I have told you before, works, commandments don't save ya, but it is the evidence of your salvation.
They go hand in hand.
Faith without works is dead, being alone.

 

[gr8grace3]

What does the spiritual skill say about, having other gods?
What does the spiritual skills say about coveting?
What does the spiritual skills say about stealing?
What does the spiritual skills say about murdering?
What does the spiritual skills say about bearing false witness?
My spirit says, don't do it!, lol

My flesh even says don't do it. I don't want to go to jail. I don't want to be humiliated. But the Spirit says I can't be saved by my human good and my so called human integrity and self righteousness(my other god.).

 

[dianegcook]

My flesh even says don't do it. I don't want to go to jail. I don't want to be humiliated. But the Spirit says I can't be saved by my human good and my so called human integrity and self righteousness(my other god.).

Yep, I agree, with you.
Works don't save ya.
But if you are saved, good works will follow.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not disagreeing with you just saying....
God did not make a contract with us. The covenant promises were made to His Son. So it is our faith that through Him we will receive salvation.
It is comforting to know, that unlike myself, the Son is always faithful. He will never break the covenant.

Which is where Hebrews is heading now in our study:

12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13 For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, "I WILL SURELY * BLESS YOU AND I WILL SURELY MULTIPLY YOU." 15 And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise.
(Hebrews 6:12-13 NASB capitals in original)

This is the foundation for the Christian's confidence. God swore with an oath that he would keep the promise of blessing he made to Abraham. Abraham believed that. And after waiting a while God provided the heir that would inherit the blessing on behalf of Abraham just as God had promised.

In the account in Genesis, God seals and ratifies that oath with blood:

8 He said, "O Lord GOD, how may I know that I will possess it?" 9 So He said to him, "Bring Me a three year old heifer, and a three year old female goat, and a three year old ram, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon." 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, and laid each half opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds. (Genesis 15:8-10 NASB)

So, just as God made the promise of blessing to Abraham, and promised an heir who would inherit the blessing, and sealed that promise with a blood oath, so we also have God's promise of blessing, and an heir, Jesus Christ, who would inherit the blessing on our behalf, and has sealed that promise with an oath made by the blood of Christ. This is the surety of the hope of blessing we have been offered--God swore to it's fulfillment by blood oath. That's why we can place our faith in the hope of Christ offered to us. It has God's solemn oath, ratified by blood, backing it up.

16 For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. 17 In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, 18 so that by two unchangeable things (his plan, and his oath to carry it out) in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. 19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast...
(Hebrews 6:16-19 NASB parenthesis mine)

 

[dianegcook]

Which is where Hebrews is heading now in our study:

12 so that you will not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13 For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14 saying, "I WILL SURELY * BLESS YOU AND I WILL SURELY MULTIPLY YOU." 15 And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise.
(Hebrews 6:12-13 NASB capitals in original)

This is the foundation for the Christian's confidence. God swore with an oath that he would keep the promise of blessing he made to Abraham. Abraham believed that. And after waiting a while God provided the heir that would inherit the blessing on behalf of Abraham just as God had promised.

In the account in Genesis, God seals and ratifies that oath with blood:

8 He said, "O Lord GOD, how may I know that I will possess it?" 9 So He said to him, "Bring Me a three year old heifer, and a three year old female goat, and a three year old ram, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon." 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, and laid each half opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds. (Genesis 15:8-10 NASB)

So, just as God made the promise of blessing to Abraham, and promised an heir who would inherit the blessing, and sealed that promise with a blood oath, so we also have God's promise of blessing, and an heir, Jesus Christ, who would inherit the blessing on our behalf, and has sealed that promise with an oath made by the blood of Christ. This is the surety of the hope of blessing we have been offered--God swore to it's fulfillment by blood oath. That's why we can place our faith in the hope of Christ offered to us. It has God's solemn oath, ratified by blood, backing it up.

16 For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. 17 In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, 18 so that by two unchangeable things (his plan, and his oath to carry it out) in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. 19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast...
(Hebrews 6:16-19 NASB parenthesis mine)

Amen...
For men verily swear by the greater, and oath for confirmation is to them and end to strife.
(Agreement)
Wherein God, willing more abundantly to show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath;
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us;

Refer to 12:1
Wherefore see we also are compassed about with so a great cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Heb.6:19
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which entereth into that within the veil.

Refer to 9:7,8
But into the second (Holiest) went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people;
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way to the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing.....

20, Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Refer to 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

8:1
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum:We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens.

9:24
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.

Melchisedec?
5:6-10
As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
(King of the Just or Elect, priest line, king line)

Who in the days of His flesh (Jesus), when He offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save Him from death, and was heard in that He feared,
Though he were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He suffered,
And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Psa. 110:4
Heb1:1-3
2; Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds, (ages)
Who being the brightness of His glory, and express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Express image of His person
Express image=the word means the exact impression as metal is pressed into a die, or as a seal upon wax.

 

[dianegcook]

Now should we go to chapter 7?
Melchisedec?
This can only be speculation on whom he could be/was.
My speculation is Jesus, not born in flesh yet.
It is hard to explain, sorta like the trinity.
The spiritual realm.

7:1
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem (peace), priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him,

Refer to Gen.14:18,19
And Melchisedec king of Salem brought forth bread and wine, and He was the priest of the most high God.
And He blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth.

The bread and wine reminds me of the last supper, bread, this is my body, wine, blood, cup of the N.T.

Now in John 8:57,58
Then said the Jews unto Him, Thou art not yet 50 years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Heb.7:2
To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being by interpretation King of Righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace.

John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad.

Heb.7:3
Without father, (lower case f), without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God, abideth a priest continually.
4, Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Now everyone has their opinion on whom He was, mine, not wrote in blood or anything, lol.

But something to consider.
Whom did the priest sacrifice to?
Whom did, or we pay tithes to?

I believe it was a shadow of things to come.
Take Dan.3:25
Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego was cast into the fiery furnace,
Then Nebuchadnezzar, said,
Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
Now we know that Jesus was not born in the flesh then.
So, maybe He roamed here before He was born.

My thoughts.......

 

[eddif]

Hebrews 5:10
Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again whichbe the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

If we do not understand Melchisedec it appears we are not yet mature enough to understand. It stresses the teachers since the students are dull of hearing.

II Corinthians 3:15
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Chapter 7 does a good job of teaching, if the eyes of our understanding are open.

eddif
​

 

[JohnD]

And what all the book of Hebrews gleans about Melchizedek from the mere record of Genesis stating plainly what happened is fascinating. We should pay as much attention to passages like Jeremiah 31:31-37. No mention of Gentiles. Mentioned elsewhere of course. Meaning all who believe are counted as / grafted into the (spirit) House of Judah / (spirit) House of Israel.

 

[eddif]

Coming into Israel as a grafted in person is great. The only problem we are having: the book of Hebrews is ignoring the Gentiles. God through Paul is talking with the Jews. Everyone: Jew and Gentile are having to deal with sin, but right here in Hebrews those formerly physically under the law,
are having to deal with the new covenant. In other books we can and do deal with Gentiles, but right here and right now it is about modifying / warning Jews.

Since I have forsaken my former heritage I am in the same condition with Israel. Inside my Jewish heart and mind I have to be able to read and understand the book of Hebrews. I am one new man with Jews, in the arena of Jewish thought.

eddif

 

[eddif]

And what all the book of Hebrews gleans about Melchizedek from the mere record of Genesis stating plainly what happened is fascinating. We should pay as much attention to passages like Jeremiah 31:31-37. No mention of Gentiles. Mentioned elsewhere of course. Meaning all who believe are counted as / grafted into the (spirit) House of Judah / (spirit) House of Israel.

We should pay attention to the Hebrews passage that allows us to understand the shadow passage in Jeremiah. LOL

eddif

 

[eddif]

It is all but impossible to take a magnifying glass to a shadow in order to see the object that cast the shadow. Revelation about the shadow may cast light on the reality / body.

Matthew 13:36
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

The disciples did not go from the parable to truth (although the parable / shadow contained truth), but they received the truth from Christ Jesus.

eddif

 

[JLB]

Faith is the only perception for us that is non-meritorious. Our faith has no merit in and of itself. It is the object(Jesus Christ) of our faith that has the merit. If it was our faith that saves us or keeps us saved, we could believe in anything and be saved.

I believe we stay in the contract(Adoption,yes it is a contract and Paul use the analogy of the Roman citizen adoption) based on His Grace. Not the fact that we continue to have faith after we have made that one time, non-meritorious choice to believe upon Him alone for salvation. It is not the price we pay to continue in the faith. It is the price He paid when we first believed.

1 Cor 6:19~~New American Standard Bible
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
1 Cor 6:20~~New American Standard Bible
For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Religion~~Try to glorify God in your flesh, continue in your faith,continue in your good works,continue in your obedience,continue in your love and you might of paid a high enough price and you might be a temple for the Holy Spirit.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6

A person who believes in Christ, then later because of persecution, turns away from believing and believes in Allah as God, no longer has faith in Christ.

They have turned away from God and are no longer partakers of Christ, having turned to another god, which is idolatry.

Idolaters, as well as the unbelieving, have their place in the lake of fire.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


JLB

 

[JLB]

So, just as God made the promise of blessing to Abraham, and promised an heir who would inherit the blessing, and sealed that promise with a blood oath, so we also have God's promise of blessing, and an heir, Jesus Christ, who would inherit the blessing on our behalf, and has sealed that promise with an oath made by the blood of Christ. This is the surety of the hope of blessing we have been offered--God swore to it's fulfillment by blood oath. That's why we can place our faith in the hope of Christ offered to us. It has God's solemn oath, ratified by blood, backing it up.

16 For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute. 17 In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, 18 so that by two unchangeable things (his plan, and his oath to carry it out) in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us. 19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast...
(Hebrews 6:16-19 NASB parenthesis mine)

We see that this encouragement, for those who have taken refuge, is to "take hold" of the hope set before us.

We indeed have this encouragement, because hope that is seen, is not hope, for who hopes for what is seen.

In other words, we who have "taken hold" of this hope are waiting... patiently.

We do not yet have the reality of what we are hoping for... the salvation of our soul, which is why we wait with perseverance. Romans 8:25

And those who eagerly wait for the appearing of that Salvation, do so with the assurance of His promise, which we have anchored our soul with.


To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now should we go to chapter 7?
Melchisedec?
This can only be speculation on whom he could be/was.
My speculation is Jesus, not born in flesh yet.
It is hard to explain, sorta like the trinity.
The spiritual realm.

I figure if Mel. was Jesus the author would have come right out and said that. And I think a fleshly appearance of Christ before his birth in Bethlehem kind of negates the significance of that appearing. But the scriptures you post are worth considering.

I think what the author wants to get across to the Jewish Church is that it's not unreasonable that Jesus has the relationship with God that it is said he has. The author explains that we have the precedent already in the scriptures for a legitimate ministry of a Priest not of the tribe of Levi. (That's how you convince Jews of Jesus--use their own scriptures).

As to the genealogy, I think he was simply clothed in mystery as much then as he is now. Him having no beginning and no end is referring to the mystery of his coming and going, lost to history. Even with all this said, I really have no problem with people thinking Mel was a pre-Mosaic appearance of Jesus. We simply don't know. What we need to take away from it is the precedent it is for the Jews who think only Levites can be what they are to God, and Jesus was no Levite.

 

[eddif]

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6

A person who believes in Christ, then later because of persecution, turns away from believing and believes in Allah as God, no longer has faith in Christ.

They have turned away from God and are no longer partakers of Christ, having turned to another god, which is idolatry.

Idolaters, as well as the unbelieving, have their place in the lake of fire.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


JLB

Hebrews 7:11
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood--and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood--why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 7:19
(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Is it then logical that one having trusted Christ for righteousness (faith in Christ's righteousness), could not seek to return to repentance under the law (faith in something that made nothing perfect)?

eddif

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hebrews 7:11
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood--and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood--why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 7:19
(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Is it then logical that one having trusted Christ for righteousness (faith in Christ's righteousness), could not seek to return to repentance under the law (faith in something that made nothing perfect)?

eddif

I think you got it backwards.
What you can't return to after once having it but giving it up is repentance from dead works unto good works in Christ. (That's the whole point of the letter. The Jewish Christians are being warned not to abandon their faith and repentance in Christ and return to the inferior system of the law for justification).

1 ...repentance from dead works and of faith toward God...
4 ...those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance (from dead works and of faith toward God vs.1), since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Hebrews 6:1, 4-6 NASB parenthesis mine)

This will be confirmed when we get to chapter 10.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And those who eagerly wait for the appearing of that Salvation, do so with the assurance of His promise, which we have anchored our soul with.

I heard that the anchor was actually the sign used by the church for the first 400 years as the symbol of the hope we have in Christ, not the cross.

 

[dianegcook]

I figure if Mel. was Jesus the author would have come right out and said that. And I think a fleshly appearance of Christ before his birth in Bethlehem kind of negates the significance of that appearing. But the scriptures you post are worth considering.

I think what the author wants to get across to the Jewish Church is that it's not unreasonable that Jesus has the relationship with God that it is said he has. The author explains that we have the precedent already in the scriptures for a legitimate ministry of a Priest not of the tribe of Levi. (That's how you convince Jews of Jesus--use their own scriptures).

As to the genealogy, I think he was simply clothed in mystery as much then as he is now. Him having no beginning and no end is referring to the mystery of his coming and going, lost to history. Even with all this said, I really have no problem with people thinking Mel was a pre-Mosaic appearance of Jesus. We simply don't know. What we need to take away from it is the precedent it is for the Jews who think only Levites can be what they are to God, and Jesus was no Levite.

I do believe Jesus was from the kingline and priestline.
Mary's mother was from the tribe of the Levites, and Mary's father was from the tribe of Judah.
In Luke 1:36 you see that Mary and Elizabeth were cousins. Their mothers were sisters.
In Luke 1:5 you see Zacharias doing his course of Abia, his wife was of the daughters of Aaron.