HELL 20/20 ****Tonight****

[Guest]

No need to re-read. I believe I stated I made a bad assumption and apologized.

I will admit to being somewhat confused as to what would be "appropriate" to say here and not, or when an honest mistake and apology isn't accepted, yet blatantantly taking things of context seems to be quite fine.

But not to worry. I won't bother you good folks anymore.

Sorry Texasgirl, when I read your post, I thought it you said "If I made...." - I just wanted to help clear it up that is all.

I was not suggesting that your apology would not be accepted, I just wasn't sure that you actually made one. It appears that I misunderstood, therefore I am sorry.

While I can not speak for everyone here - I do not want you to leave. Though I do not understand where taking things out of context is considered 'fine'.

 

[Atonement]

20/20 Telecast
by Bill Weir

Matthew Lavelle: believes he saw both Heaven and Hell and went through NDE (near death experience). Died at the age of 11 by a drowning and saw heaven, later in life he wanted to go back to heaven so he bought a bottle of booze and committed suicide. But he saw a vision of hell. He saw everyone he ever caused pain to here on earth. He saw how his death impacted those that were still alive.

Pastor Carlton Pearson, the pastor that was called to lead the prayer at the Oklahoma bombing. He gave up believing in Hell and lost his Church of 6000 members down to 300 members and claims that hell is on earth, "we live in it, but never sent." He believes that Hell exist on earth only. Today his Church is growing.

What do you feel about this teaching? Why do you think that 5700 people left his Church because of this teaching? After seeing his remarks on 20/20, do you now find this to be Scriptual?

Marlyn Manson, a man raised in the Catholic faith until his early teens and left the Church, now he states he knows he's going to Hell, and say's he will "not be allowed to do anything in Heaven," therefore "Hell fits him better." With these type of remarks, Can we say that Marlyn Manson really knew the Lord? Is the Church to blame? If so, why?

If everyone were to go to heaven, would God be mocked? Called a liar? Would we who put our faith in Him as past Biblical figures such as David and Solomon who asked the Lord not to spare their enemies. Would we feel the same? What about Hitler, what if you saw Hitler (i.e only) in heaven, would you agree with God's justice? This is what one pastor is teaching. .


Texasgirl, we accept your apology and understand your concern. You are welcomed to post..

 

[sisterchristian]

20/20 Telecast
by Bill Weir

Pastor Carlton Pearson, the pastor that was called to lead the prayer at the Oklahoma bombing. He gave up believing in Hell and lost his Church of 6000 members down to 300 members and claims that hell is on earth, "we live in it, but never sent." He believes that Hell exist on earth only. Today his Church is growing.

What do you feel about this teaching? Why do you think that 5700 people left his Church because of this teaching? After seeing his remarks on 20/20, do you now find this to be Scriptual?

First of all he is a double minded person because he taught on hell and now he teaches against it. :-? He will be judged more severely for his false teachings because he is deceiving the people and not telling them the truth about it, what God's word says concerning hell.

 

[sisterchristian]

Marlyn Manson, a man raised in the Catholic faith until his early teens and left the Church, now he states he knows he's going to Hell, and say's he will "not be allowed to do anything in Heaven," therefore "Hell fits him better." With these type of remarks, Can we say that Marlyn Manson really knew the Lord? Is the Church to blame? If so, why?

All I can say for that man is that he is in for a very rude awakening, as is all those that think Hell will be some kind of sick party where they are going to be with all there "friends"!

 

[handy]

Marlyn Manson, a man raised in the Catholic faith until his early teens and left the Church, now he states he knows he's going to Hell, and say's he will "not be allowed to do anything in Heaven," therefore "Hell fits him better." With these type of remarks, Can we say that Marlyn Manson really knew the Lord? Is the Church to blame? If so, why?

This issue of MM is an interesting one.

I submit that for all the damned who wind up in hell...they will be in torment, yet rather be in torment than in the presence of a holy God.

Very often people point out hell as proof that God is cruel and unjust. But, I think we can take MM words for exactly what he says they mean. I don't think MM doesn't believe in hell, or just has a misunderstanding of what it is. From what I can understand by his own words, he has a fairly decent understanding of hell, and yet prefers that fate to submitting to God. This is what is true of hell, everyone who winds up there will have truly desired the second death to submission. In effect, God gives them exactly what they want.

Whether or not he truly knew the Lord is probably something we cannot know. I've been in several conversations with committed atheists who were raised within churches. I used to believe that they couldn't possibly have known the Lord, and yet their testimonies indicate that their level of belief and understanding was and is just as good as my own. Why some raised within churches come to regeneration and others don't is one of those mysteries that we probably will never fully understand on this earth. Those with the theological POV that we cannot lose salvation will claim that he never knew the Lord, others that believe we can will claim he once did. That debate cannot be solved by someone like MM, that's for sure.

I'm not sure why the Catholic Church would be at fault for MM's own choices. I know plenty of Catholics who are devoutly following God and truly submitted to His holy will. I know of others who were raised Baptist, Calvinist, Nazarene, etc. and do not continue on in a walk with God.

 

[Vic C.]

Handy, if you read my last post, disregard it. I totally misread what you posted and deleted my post because of my error. :

 

[Veritas]

This is what is true of hell, everyone who winds up there will have truly desired the second death to submission. In effect, God gives them exactly what they want.

handy, I agree. I've attempted to explain this to people who are shocked and upset at the thought of God judging us and allowing the torments of Hell. I also think it's interesting MM is fully aware of what he is choosing. At least he is being an honest thinker. He's still here on earth, and still needs prayers. I hope and pray God enters his heart ...same for the others in his boat!

 

[handy]

Handy, if you read my last post, disregard it. I totally misread what you posted and deleted my post because of my error. :

:D Didn't see it, no harm, no foul.

Early in my 'posting' days, I blasted out a scathing retort to someone, and only after hitting send did I realize that I had totally misunderstood her POV.

Only thing was, that site didn't have an edit button.

I can't say that I haven't blasted out scathing retorts based on misunderstandings since then.

I just don't participate in forums that don't have an edit button! :wink:
:

 

[thessalonian]

Up above Texasgirl is chastised for making a controversial statement. Then atonement says this:

"Marlyn Manson, a man raised in the Catholic faith until his early teens and left the Church, now he states he knows he's going to Hell, and say's he will "not be allowed to do anything in Heaven," therefore "Hell fits him better." With these type of remarks, Can we say that Marlyn Manson really knew the Lord? Is the Church to blame? If so, why? "

Are protestant churches to blame for al gore and bill clintone? Protestants never leave their church and kill?

 

[Guest]

Up above Texasgirl is chastised for making a controversial statement. Then atonement says this:

"Marlyn Manson, a man raised in the Catholic faith until his early teens and left the Church, now he states he knows he's going to Hell, and say's he will "not be allowed to do anything in Heaven," therefore "Hell fits him better." With these type of remarks, Can we say that Marlyn Manson really knew the Lord? Is the Church to blame? If so, why? "

Are protestant churches to blame for al gore and bill clintone? Protestants never leave their church and kill?

Where did Atonement say that the Roman Catholic church was to blame?

No, I believe atonement asked: "Is the Church to blame? If so, why?"

 

[Atonement]

Up above Texasgirl is chastised for making a controversial statement. Then atonement says this:

"Marlyn Manson, a man raised in the Catholic faith until his early teens and left the Church, now he states he knows he's going to Hell, and say's he will "not be allowed to do anything in Heaven," therefore "Hell fits him better." With these type of remarks, Can we say that Marlyn Manson really knew the Lord? Is the Church to blame? If so, why? "

Are protestant churches to blame for al gore and bill clintone? Protestants never leave their church and kill?

Thess. You are so accustomed to hearing the word "Catholic Church" you automatically think someone is pointing fingers.. Learn to understand the post before you post personal responses about Church's.

If I was to add people into a category Thess, I would have used Hitler with out a doubt, who was also raised in a Catholic up-bringing; who murdered thousands and thousands of people. But this was not the point nor do I find your post to be in context of what I'm writing about.

 

[Vic C.]

:D Didn't see it, no harm, no foul.

Early in my 'posting' days, I blasted out a scathing retort to someone, and only after hitting send did I realize that I had totally misunderstood her POV.

Only thing was, that site didn't have an edit button.

I can't say that I haven't blasted out scathing retorts based on misunderstandings since then.

I just don't participate in forums that don't have an edit button! :wink:
:

LOL!

Here's what happened:

I saw this:

I submit that for all the damned who wind up in hell...they will be in torment, yet rather be in torment than in the presence of a holy God.

But read it this way:

I submit that for all the damned who wind up in hell...they will be in torment, yet rather be in torment and in the presence of a holy God.

I thought you were saying God is present as they were being tormented! :

 

[Lewis]

Yes my fine, featherd (and blinking) friend. :-D

That is so funny' thanks for the good laugh. Man what is up with that avatar anyway man ? When I first saw it' I was like' what kind of avatar is that. And I wish that you will tell him to stop looking at me. He must don't listen to you because he is still looking at me. I am not playing man' tell him to stop looking at me. I see that he's a coward he won't fight me like a man.

 

[Fnerb]

That is so funny' thanks for the good laugh. Man what is up with that avatar anyway man ? When I first saw it' I was like' what kind of avatar is that. And I wish that you will tell him to stop looking at me. He must don't listen to you because he is still looking at me. I am not playing man' tell him to stop looking at me. I see that he's a coward he won't fight me like a man.

 

[Lewis]

Mommy he's still looking at me.

 

[sisterchristian]

.

I see that he's a coward he won't fight me like a man.[/color]

 

[jgredline]

Did I hear my name? Oh I see,....
You folks want some of this....Come get some... :-D

 

[Lewis]

Did I hear my name? Oh I see,....
You folks want some of this....Come get some... :-D

I knew that duck was dangerous. I just knew it. Just look at his haberdashery.