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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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Perdition's Population Clock
- Thread starter Beetow
- Start date
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #82
.
● Eph 1:4-5 . .He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we
should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as
sons through Jesus Christ to Himself,
Predestination isn't arbitrary; it's typically always the consequence of
foreknowledge. In other words: God has always known, from the very beginning,
by means of prescience, who will, and who won't, come to faith in His son. And
seeing as how He had that information in hand early on, then it was practical to go
ahead and establish their adoption in advance.
● Rom 8:29 . . For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestine to be
conformed to the likeness of His son.
FAQ: If God, via foreknowledge, predestined certain folks to be conformed to the
likeness of His son, then wouldn't that mean God via foreknowledge predestined
others to be conformed to the likeness of the Devil?
REPLY: I should think that a reasonable posit. In point of fact, passages like John
8:44 and Eph 2:1-2 strongly suggest that the process of conforming folks to the
Devil's likeness is the default, i.e. everybody starts out in that configuration though
of course not everybody ends up stuck with it. (1John 3:8)
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 55 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 4,221,360 new arrivals
have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_
● Eph 1:4-5 . .He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, that we
should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as
sons through Jesus Christ to Himself,
Predestination isn't arbitrary; it's typically always the consequence of
foreknowledge. In other words: God has always known, from the very beginning,
by means of prescience, who will, and who won't, come to faith in His son. And
seeing as how He had that information in hand early on, then it was practical to go
ahead and establish their adoption in advance.
● Rom 8:29 . . For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestine to be
conformed to the likeness of His son.
FAQ: If God, via foreknowledge, predestined certain folks to be conformed to the
likeness of His son, then wouldn't that mean God via foreknowledge predestined
others to be conformed to the likeness of the Devil?
REPLY: I should think that a reasonable posit. In point of fact, passages like John
8:44 and Eph 2:1-2 strongly suggest that the process of conforming folks to the
Devil's likeness is the default, i.e. everybody starts out in that configuration though
of course not everybody ends up stuck with it. (1John 3:8)
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 55 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 4,221,360 new arrivals
have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_
Bruce.Leiter
Member
- Oct 12, 2024
- 275
- 94
Many of them look forward to what ahead of them in this life and never think about what awaits them after death.
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
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- Thread starter
- #84
.
OBJECTION: Hell doesn't make sense that a loving God would torment people in a
fiery prison forever and ever.
REPLY: I fully agree that it makes no sense at all. But then human intelligence is
produced by a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue; and not even all three of
those pounds are devoted to cognitive processes. On top of that, those three
pounds are 60% fat. That fatty, flabby, organic tissue can alter one's personality
with little more than an aneurysm or a blow to the head.
Just how bright can a fatty, flabby, organic intelligence really be compared to the
IQ of a supernatural being with enough intelligence to invent, design, and construct
a fully functioning cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy? A fatty,
flabby, organic intelligence isn't even a dunce in comparison: it's the IQ of a
termite; if even that.
● 1Cor 3:20 . .The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are empty.
Well; that's certainly not a very flattering evaluation. It's as much as saying that, in
God's opinion, the smartest among humanity basically consists of air heads; and if
that's His evaluation of the best and brightest, then where might God be ranking
the average John Que and Jane Doe pew warmer?
_
OBJECTION: Hell doesn't make sense that a loving God would torment people in a
fiery prison forever and ever.
REPLY: I fully agree that it makes no sense at all. But then human intelligence is
produced by a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue; and not even all three of
those pounds are devoted to cognitive processes. On top of that, those three
pounds are 60% fat. That fatty, flabby, organic tissue can alter one's personality
with little more than an aneurysm or a blow to the head.
Just how bright can a fatty, flabby, organic intelligence really be compared to the
IQ of a supernatural being with enough intelligence to invent, design, and construct
a fully functioning cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy? A fatty,
flabby, organic intelligence isn't even a dunce in comparison: it's the IQ of a
termite; if even that.
● 1Cor 3:20 . .The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are empty.
Well; that's certainly not a very flattering evaluation. It's as much as saying that, in
God's opinion, the smartest among humanity basically consists of air heads; and if
that's His evaluation of the best and brightest, then where might God be ranking
the average John Que and Jane Doe pew warmer?
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #85
.
FAQ: Doesn't the Bible say that God's mercy endures forever, e.g. Ps 100:5, Ps
106:1, Ps 107:1, and Ps 118:1, et al?
REPLY: God's mercy is very durable; but His good sense knows when to say
"when". Examples of that are the people swept away by the hand of God in the
Flood, and those burned to death by the hand of God in Sodom and Gomorrah; and
the firstborn of man and beast slain by the hand of God on Passover night in Egypt.
It's possible to push God too far. For example:
● Hos 4:17 . . Ephraim is joined to idols; let him alone.
In other words: God instructed the prophet Hosea not to bother preaching in
Ephraim because He was fed up with them.
Down at the end of all with which we are familiar, the announcement below will be
made.
● Rev 22:11 . . Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the
righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.
In other words: the people to whom those words pertain, will be stuck with who
and what they are with no chance of ever being any different. That's good news for
the righteous and/or holy, whereas really bad news for folks who end up on the
wrong side of things. Those in Hell will be given no options, i.e. they will be
permanently unsuitable for anyplace else.
_
FAQ: Doesn't the Bible say that God's mercy endures forever, e.g. Ps 100:5, Ps
106:1, Ps 107:1, and Ps 118:1, et al?
REPLY: God's mercy is very durable; but His good sense knows when to say
"when". Examples of that are the people swept away by the hand of God in the
Flood, and those burned to death by the hand of God in Sodom and Gomorrah; and
the firstborn of man and beast slain by the hand of God on Passover night in Egypt.
It's possible to push God too far. For example:
● Hos 4:17 . . Ephraim is joined to idols; let him alone.
In other words: God instructed the prophet Hosea not to bother preaching in
Ephraim because He was fed up with them.
Down at the end of all with which we are familiar, the announcement below will be
made.
● Rev 22:11 . . Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the
righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.
In other words: the people to whom those words pertain, will be stuck with who
and what they are with no chance of ever being any different. That's good news for
the righteous and/or holy, whereas really bad news for folks who end up on the
wrong side of things. Those in Hell will be given no options, i.e. they will be
permanently unsuitable for anyplace else.
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
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- Thread starter
- #86
.
FAQ: What is meant by soul?
REPLY: Soul began appearing in the Bible in the book of Genesis by the Hebrew
word nephesh (neh'-fesh) which isn't unique to human life. Its first appearance is at
Gen 1:20-21 in reference to aqua creatures and winged creatures; again at Gen
1:24 as terra creatures; viz: cattle, creepy crawlies, and wild beasts; and again in
Gen 2:7 as the human creature; and yet again at Gen 9:10 to classify every
creature aboard Noah's ark.
I have yet to discover a passage saying God is a soul, however I've found several
that say He has a soul. (Lev 26:11, Lev 26:30, Judg 10:16, Isa 42:1, Jer 32:41,
Zech 11:8)
Soul is somewhat ambiguous but basically refers to consciousness, self awareness,
and individuality. It's sometimes a reference to one's heart, e.g. Gen 34:3, and to
the core of one's being, e.g. Gen 27:4. All in all, soul is just another way of
referring to that part of sentient life that we call "self" which can be roughly defined
as the element of our existence that makes us unique individuals.
The human soul is sturdy, but not indestructible. It can't be destroyed by normal
means but can by the hand of God, and apparently a number of souls are on track
for exactly that.
● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;
but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell.
FAQ: If people are already a corpse when they pass away, then how is it their body
dies in Hell?
REPLY: The current afterlife has no effect upon the human body because for now
when people pass away, their bodies stay here rather than going there. But out
ahead in the future; the body of the people down below will be restored to life when
called up to face justice at the great white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15.
Should the judgment go against them, their resurrected body will be terminated yet
once again. And lest we forget: their soul will be terminated too so it's possible
people will exist in the lake of fire as vegetables, so to speak.
_
FAQ: What is meant by soul?
REPLY: Soul began appearing in the Bible in the book of Genesis by the Hebrew
word nephesh (neh'-fesh) which isn't unique to human life. Its first appearance is at
Gen 1:20-21 in reference to aqua creatures and winged creatures; again at Gen
1:24 as terra creatures; viz: cattle, creepy crawlies, and wild beasts; and again in
Gen 2:7 as the human creature; and yet again at Gen 9:10 to classify every
creature aboard Noah's ark.
I have yet to discover a passage saying God is a soul, however I've found several
that say He has a soul. (Lev 26:11, Lev 26:30, Judg 10:16, Isa 42:1, Jer 32:41,
Zech 11:8)
Soul is somewhat ambiguous but basically refers to consciousness, self awareness,
and individuality. It's sometimes a reference to one's heart, e.g. Gen 34:3, and to
the core of one's being, e.g. Gen 27:4. All in all, soul is just another way of
referring to that part of sentient life that we call "self" which can be roughly defined
as the element of our existence that makes us unique individuals.
The human soul is sturdy, but not indestructible. It can't be destroyed by normal
means but can by the hand of God, and apparently a number of souls are on track
for exactly that.
● Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul;
but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell.
FAQ: If people are already a corpse when they pass away, then how is it their body
dies in Hell?
REPLY: The current afterlife has no effect upon the human body because for now
when people pass away, their bodies stay here rather than going there. But out
ahead in the future; the body of the people down below will be restored to life when
called up to face justice at the great white throne event depicted by Rev 20:11-15.
Should the judgment go against them, their resurrected body will be terminated yet
once again. And lest we forget: their soul will be terminated too so it's possible
people will exist in the lake of fire as vegetables, so to speak.
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
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- Thread starter
- #87
.
● John 6:37 . . All that the Father gives me will come to me
FAQ: What percentage of those the Father gives him would you suppose Jesus
expects to lose?
REPLY: None
● John 10:9 . . I am the gate; whoever enters through me shall be saved.
Were Christ a common ranch hand; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be saved"; no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "shall be safer". That would leave him some
room for error. But when Christ says "shall be saved" he's claiming a 0.0% failure
rate.
● John 10:27-28 . . No one can snatch them out of my hand.
FAQ: Why can't the sheep of their own free will take themselves out of his hand?
REPLY: Because the Father's free will trumps the sheep's free will.
● John 6:39 . .This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.
So then, were Christ to allow even one of the sheep to walk away, he would fail to
accomplish the will of one who sent him. But Christ never fails to satisfy his
Father's expectations.
● John 14:31 . . That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father
gave me commandment, even so I do.
● John 8:29 . .The one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I
always do what is pleasing to Him.
Were Christ to lose even one of the sheep given to him by the Father, he wouldn't
be able to say that he "always" pleases the one who sent him. He might claim some
of the time, or even most of the time, but never all the time. And besides: Jesus'
miracles demonstrate that he has all the powers of the supreme being at his
disposal to keep the sheep right where he wants them.
* When people insist that it's possible for Jesus to lose sheep; they are actually
casting a vote of no-confidence in his Father's approval rating.
● Matt 3:16-17 . . As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At
that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a
dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said; "This is My son, whom I
love; with him I am well pleased."
_
● John 6:37 . . All that the Father gives me will come to me
FAQ: What percentage of those the Father gives him would you suppose Jesus
expects to lose?
REPLY: None
● John 10:9 . . I am the gate; whoever enters through me shall be saved.
Were Christ a common ranch hand; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be saved"; no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "shall be safer". That would leave him some
room for error. But when Christ says "shall be saved" he's claiming a 0.0% failure
rate.
● John 10:27-28 . . No one can snatch them out of my hand.
FAQ: Why can't the sheep of their own free will take themselves out of his hand?
REPLY: Because the Father's free will trumps the sheep's free will.
● John 6:39 . .This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.
So then, were Christ to allow even one of the sheep to walk away, he would fail to
accomplish the will of one who sent him. But Christ never fails to satisfy his
Father's expectations.
● John 14:31 . . That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father
gave me commandment, even so I do.
● John 8:29 . .The one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I
always do what is pleasing to Him.
Were Christ to lose even one of the sheep given to him by the Father, he wouldn't
be able to say that he "always" pleases the one who sent him. He might claim some
of the time, or even most of the time, but never all the time. And besides: Jesus'
miracles demonstrate that he has all the powers of the supreme being at his
disposal to keep the sheep right where he wants them.
* When people insist that it's possible for Jesus to lose sheep; they are actually
casting a vote of no-confidence in his Father's approval rating.
● Matt 3:16-17 . . As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At
that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a
dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said; "This is My son, whom I
love; with him I am well pleased."
_
- May 16, 2021
- 7,499
- 5,042
I will ask you Beetow , is your hand on the plough ?
59And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 60Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. 61And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. 62And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Luke 9:62 Context
59And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 60Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. 61And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. 62And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
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- Thread starter
- #89
It is my understanding that nobody is fit for the kingdom of God; all are unfit.
● John 3:3 . . Jesus declared: I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of
God unless he is born again.
● John 3:7 . . Do not marvel that I said to you: You must be born again.
In other words: regeneration isn't optional, rather, it's a requirement.
NOTE: One day I asked an experienced Jehovah's Witness at my job if he was born
of the Spirit. He answered no; and added that he didn't expect to undergo the Spirit
birth in either this life or the next because his hope is a kingdom on Earth rather
than up in Heaven.
The JW was somehow unaware that Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus didn't pertain
to a kingdom above, rather, to a kingdom below.
● John 3:12 . . . If I have told you earthly things and yet you do not believe, how
will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
It's both tragic and ironic that John Que and Jane Doe Watchtower Society
missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will never be
allowed to enter-- not because they didn't work hard enough to deserve it, but
simply because they were led to believe themselves exempt from the birth Jesus
spoke of with Nicodemus in the opening verses of the third chapter of John's
gospel.
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 60 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 4,605,120 new arrivals
have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #90
.
FAQ: Isn't Judaism equally as useful as Christianity for sinners seeking God's
forgiveness? Isn't that the whole purpose of the great day of atonement,
a.k.a. Yom Kippur?
REPLY: Pinning one's hopes on Yom Kippur is futile. For one thing: there's no one to
perform the ritual seeing as how there is neither a Temple nor a fully functioning high
priest on duty in Jerusalem at this time. In point of fact, neither of those two essential
components have been in Jerusalem since 70 AD. But that's not the worst of it.
The original sacrificial system was effective-- to a point --for addressing the peoples'
actions, and for sanitizing their bodies, but totally ineffective for addressing the people
themselves, viz: the core of their being.
When Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, his perception of decency relative to sex and the
human body underwent a radical adjustment. Whereas before, he was comfortable
seen undressed; afterwards he was uncomfortable seen naked even by his wife.
The thing is: Adam's moral compass went awry, i.e. his sensitivities became humanistic,
that is: cultural instead of divine.
● Gen 3:22 . . And The Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.
In other words: Adam began looking to his own intuition for moral direction instead of
looking to his maker, viz: Adam became a tin God.
Point being: none of the Levitical system's rituals address the corruption inherent within
the human conscience that came about by means of the forbidden fruit incident.
● Heb 9:13-14 . .The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on
those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered
himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so
that we may serve the living God.
The Greek word translated "consciences" is relative to psychological activity; especially
pertaining to moral perception. So we're not talking about outwardly sinful behavior
here. (cf. Rom 2:16 & Heb 4:12)
_
FAQ: Isn't Judaism equally as useful as Christianity for sinners seeking God's
forgiveness? Isn't that the whole purpose of the great day of atonement,
a.k.a. Yom Kippur?
REPLY: Pinning one's hopes on Yom Kippur is futile. For one thing: there's no one to
perform the ritual seeing as how there is neither a Temple nor a fully functioning high
priest on duty in Jerusalem at this time. In point of fact, neither of those two essential
components have been in Jerusalem since 70 AD. But that's not the worst of it.
The original sacrificial system was effective-- to a point --for addressing the peoples'
actions, and for sanitizing their bodies, but totally ineffective for addressing the people
themselves, viz: the core of their being.
When Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, his perception of decency relative to sex and the
human body underwent a radical adjustment. Whereas before, he was comfortable
seen undressed; afterwards he was uncomfortable seen naked even by his wife.
The thing is: Adam's moral compass went awry, i.e. his sensitivities became humanistic,
that is: cultural instead of divine.
● Gen 3:22 . . And The Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.
In other words: Adam began looking to his own intuition for moral direction instead of
looking to his maker, viz: Adam became a tin God.
Point being: none of the Levitical system's rituals address the corruption inherent within
the human conscience that came about by means of the forbidden fruit incident.
● Heb 9:13-14 . .The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on
those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered
himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so
that we may serve the living God.
The Greek word translated "consciences" is relative to psychological activity; especially
pertaining to moral perception. So we're not talking about outwardly sinful behavior
here. (cf. Rom 2:16 & Heb 4:12)
_
Bruce.Leiter
Member
- Oct 12, 2024
- 275
- 94
The whole purpose of the Day of Atonement is forward-looking faith in the future coming of the Messiah, who has already come, Jesus Christ. It's by him that we have the Father's forgiveness and only in him.
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #92
.
According to 1Cor 1:26, not many great people are called. If that's true, then we
have to expect that the majority of the world's best and brightest achievers-- the
really big names in sports, science, medicine, law, politics, technology, commerce,
finance, industry, religion, entertainment, and education, etc --don't, and won't,
make it to safety when they pass on.
As I watched some of the splendor and pomp of former US President Gerald Ford's
funeral back in January of 2007, I couldn't help but wonder if he was in a position
to really appreciate it; as I suspect people on the wrong side of the netherworld
would certainly no longer really care anymore whether they were given an unknown
pauper's disposal in a City incinerator, or reverently placed in a grand tomb in the
National Cemetery with world-wide television coverage.
_
According to 1Cor 1:26, not many great people are called. If that's true, then we
have to expect that the majority of the world's best and brightest achievers-- the
really big names in sports, science, medicine, law, politics, technology, commerce,
finance, industry, religion, entertainment, and education, etc --don't, and won't,
make it to safety when they pass on.
As I watched some of the splendor and pomp of former US President Gerald Ford's
funeral back in January of 2007, I couldn't help but wonder if he was in a position
to really appreciate it; as I suspect people on the wrong side of the netherworld
would certainly no longer really care anymore whether they were given an unknown
pauper's disposal in a City incinerator, or reverently placed in a grand tomb in the
National Cemetery with world-wide television coverage.
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #93
.
● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by
doing them.
Something that should be emphasized is that the curse is irrevocable; so it's very
important to come to grips with it; and the sooner the better.
● Matt 5:18 . . For assuredly, I say to you: till heaven and earth pass away, not one
jot or one tittle will by any means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
In other words: whoever deserves that curse is absolutely certain to get it unless
they take appropriate steps to avoid it.
In point of fact, Deut 27:26 is grammatically present tense rather than future,
indicating that the curse is instant-- no delay and no waiting period. i.e. it's already
on the books hanging over people's heads like a guillotine just waiting for the man
in charge to give the executioner a signal to let go the rope keeping the blade in
check.
NOTE: Although the curse is irrevocable, it isn't inevitable. According to Rom 5;12
21, Rom 6:3-11, Gal 2:20, & Col 3:2-3 God has made it possible for sinners to
become joint principals in Jesus' crucifixion; in other words to die with him and as
him; thus giving the curse its pound of flesh while at the same time protecting
those under the curse. (Isa 53:6, Gal 3:13)
All that's required from sinners is an RSVP to let God know we'd like to take
advantage of His son's death to protect ourselves from retribution. Needless to say:
life is short so we really ought to get in on this fabulous free-bee while it's on the
table rather than procrastinate to the point where we let it slip thru our fingers.
_
● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by
doing them.
Something that should be emphasized is that the curse is irrevocable; so it's very
important to come to grips with it; and the sooner the better.
● Matt 5:18 . . For assuredly, I say to you: till heaven and earth pass away, not one
jot or one tittle will by any means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
In other words: whoever deserves that curse is absolutely certain to get it unless
they take appropriate steps to avoid it.
In point of fact, Deut 27:26 is grammatically present tense rather than future,
indicating that the curse is instant-- no delay and no waiting period. i.e. it's already
on the books hanging over people's heads like a guillotine just waiting for the man
in charge to give the executioner a signal to let go the rope keeping the blade in
check.
NOTE: Although the curse is irrevocable, it isn't inevitable. According to Rom 5;12
21, Rom 6:3-11, Gal 2:20, & Col 3:2-3 God has made it possible for sinners to
become joint principals in Jesus' crucifixion; in other words to die with him and as
him; thus giving the curse its pound of flesh while at the same time protecting
those under the curse. (Isa 53:6, Gal 3:13)
All that's required from sinners is an RSVP to let God know we'd like to take
advantage of His son's death to protect ourselves from retribution. Needless to say:
life is short so we really ought to get in on this fabulous free-bee while it's on the
table rather than procrastinate to the point where we let it slip thru our fingers.
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #94
.
FAQ: Can you cite an old testament example where God approved human sacrifice?
REPLY: Yes.
● Gen 22:1-2 . . Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham,
and said to him: Abraham! And he said: Here I am. And He said: Take now your
son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer
him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.
NOTE: According to Gen 18:23-33, Abraham wasn't above challenging God's
moral values. Had the old boy seriously believed that offering his son Isaac
as a burnt offering was wrong, he would've said something; in point of fact, he had
three days to think about it. (Gen 22:4)
Did Abraham slay Isaac? No; but did Abraham offer Isaac? Yes.
● Gen 22:9 . .Then they came to the place of which God had told him. And
Abraham built an altar there and placed the wood in order; and he bound Isaac his
son and laid him on the altar, upon the wood.
The thing is: once a gift dedicated to God is placed on an altar, it's a done deal--
whether the offering is dead or alive makes no difference. In point of fact, the letter
to Hebrews credits Abraham with offering his son in compliance with God's instructions.
● Heb 11:17 . . By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he
who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son
Had God disapproved human sacrifice, He would've stopped Abraham before Isaac
was laid on the altar.
But the real clincher is the 53rd chapter of Isaiah, which speaks of a human
sacrifice fully arranged, sanctioned, and worked out by none other than "the arm of
The Lord". In other words: it was a task wherein God rolled up His sleeves and
really got down to business.
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 65 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 4,988,880 new arrivals
have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_
FAQ: Can you cite an old testament example where God approved human sacrifice?
REPLY: Yes.
● Gen 22:1-2 . . Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham,
and said to him: Abraham! And he said: Here I am. And He said: Take now your
son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer
him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.
NOTE: According to Gen 18:23-33, Abraham wasn't above challenging God's
moral values. Had the old boy seriously believed that offering his son Isaac
as a burnt offering was wrong, he would've said something; in point of fact, he had
three days to think about it. (Gen 22:4)
Did Abraham slay Isaac? No; but did Abraham offer Isaac? Yes.
● Gen 22:9 . .Then they came to the place of which God had told him. And
Abraham built an altar there and placed the wood in order; and he bound Isaac his
son and laid him on the altar, upon the wood.
The thing is: once a gift dedicated to God is placed on an altar, it's a done deal--
whether the offering is dead or alive makes no difference. In point of fact, the letter
to Hebrews credits Abraham with offering his son in compliance with God's instructions.
● Heb 11:17 . . By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he
who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son
Had God disapproved human sacrifice, He would've stopped Abraham before Isaac
was laid on the altar.
But the real clincher is the 53rd chapter of Isaiah, which speaks of a human
sacrifice fully arranged, sanctioned, and worked out by none other than "the arm of
The Lord". In other words: it was a task wherein God rolled up His sleeves and
really got down to business.
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 65 days have transpired since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post No.1 are within reason, then something like 4,988,880 new arrivals
have checked into the fiery sector of Hades since Dec 15, 2024.
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #95
.
FAQ: The Bible says Jesus went and spoke to the spirits in prison while he himself
was in the form of a spirit. (1Pet 3:18-20) Is that speaking of his three days and
nights in the afterlife per Matt 12:40 or some other time in history?
REPLY: It's at some other time in history: specifically in the days of Noah leading up
to the Flood. (Gen 6:3)
FAQ: The "my spirit" in that passage was the spirit of Christ? How so?
REPLY: The spirit of Christ inspired all the prophets, which of course included our
man Noah. (1Pet 1:10-12 & 2Pet 2:5)
FAQ: The spirits in prison per 1Pet 3:18-20 aren't fallen angels?
REPLY: The language and grammar of that passage indicate those spirits are the
afterlife remains of folks drowned in the Flood.
_
FAQ: The Bible says Jesus went and spoke to the spirits in prison while he himself
was in the form of a spirit. (1Pet 3:18-20) Is that speaking of his three days and
nights in the afterlife per Matt 12:40 or some other time in history?
REPLY: It's at some other time in history: specifically in the days of Noah leading up
to the Flood. (Gen 6:3)
FAQ: The "my spirit" in that passage was the spirit of Christ? How so?
REPLY: The spirit of Christ inspired all the prophets, which of course included our
man Noah. (1Pet 1:10-12 & 2Pet 2:5)
FAQ: The spirits in prison per 1Pet 3:18-20 aren't fallen angels?
REPLY: The language and grammar of that passage indicate those spirits are the
afterlife remains of folks drowned in the Flood.
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #96
.
● Ps 146:3-4 . . Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his
thoughts perish.
* Princes would be equivalent to Local, State, and Federal governments which are
typically very skilled at getting themselves elected while not so skilled at managing
the electorate's best interests.
Some people honestly believe the passage above teaches that people cease to exist
when they pass away; but were their belief true, then Christ would've ceased to
exist when he passed away on the cross and in order to restore the Lord's body to
life, it would've been necessary to first create the man himself back into existence.
No; I'm pretty sure that Psalm says something very different.
The Hebrew word translated "thoughts" can just as easily pertain to plans, ideas,
and schemes.
Consider all those people who perished in the World Trade Center, in the Japan and
Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake. None of them woke that day
planning on it being their last on earth. No, on the contrary; they had people to
see, places to go, and things to do: but before the day ended; whatever was on
their minds lost its importance-- their priorities went right out the window and
became no more significant than green cheese on the moon.
All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their schemes,
their problems, their aspirations, and their loves went right down the tubes as they
were suddenly confronted with a whole new reality to cope with.
While preparing for a new world tour, Michael Jackson died in his sleep. As a result;
his tour wrapped on the spot.
When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison; he quit drinking, and began
going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½ years all went
well. His parole officer was happy, and my nephew was on track and getting good
grades. His future looked assured. And then on the morning of Sept 25, 2015, he
dropped dead to the floor of natural causes. As a result; his college education, and
his hope to become a counselor, dropped dead to the floor right with him.
* Jackson was raised a Jehovah's Witness, but it's possible he may have passed
away believing in Kabbalah, or Islam, or New Age spirituality. Apparently his
religion at death is thus far a mystery.
Well, either way: if conventional Christianity is true and reliable, then Jackson is
likely in a place now for which he was utterly unprepared. And can you imagine the
suffocating stagnation endured by entertainers like him as they languish day after
day, year after year, in an environment where not one single note of music is heard
for singing and dancing?
_
● Ps 146:3-4 . . Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his
thoughts perish.
* Princes would be equivalent to Local, State, and Federal governments which are
typically very skilled at getting themselves elected while not so skilled at managing
the electorate's best interests.
Some people honestly believe the passage above teaches that people cease to exist
when they pass away; but were their belief true, then Christ would've ceased to
exist when he passed away on the cross and in order to restore the Lord's body to
life, it would've been necessary to first create the man himself back into existence.
No; I'm pretty sure that Psalm says something very different.
The Hebrew word translated "thoughts" can just as easily pertain to plans, ideas,
and schemes.
Consider all those people who perished in the World Trade Center, in the Japan and
Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake. None of them woke that day
planning on it being their last on earth. No, on the contrary; they had people to
see, places to go, and things to do: but before the day ended; whatever was on
their minds lost its importance-- their priorities went right out the window and
became no more significant than green cheese on the moon.
All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their schemes,
their problems, their aspirations, and their loves went right down the tubes as they
were suddenly confronted with a whole new reality to cope with.
While preparing for a new world tour, Michael Jackson died in his sleep. As a result;
his tour wrapped on the spot.
When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison; he quit drinking, and began
going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½ years all went
well. His parole officer was happy, and my nephew was on track and getting good
grades. His future looked assured. And then on the morning of Sept 25, 2015, he
dropped dead to the floor of natural causes. As a result; his college education, and
his hope to become a counselor, dropped dead to the floor right with him.
* Jackson was raised a Jehovah's Witness, but it's possible he may have passed
away believing in Kabbalah, or Islam, or New Age spirituality. Apparently his
religion at death is thus far a mystery.
Well, either way: if conventional Christianity is true and reliable, then Jackson is
likely in a place now for which he was utterly unprepared. And can you imagine the
suffocating stagnation endured by entertainers like him as they languish day after
day, year after year, in an environment where not one single note of music is heard
for singing and dancing?
_
Beetow
Member
- Dec 14, 2024
- 505
- 47
- Thread starter
- #97
.
Here in the USA, even the worst among the worst have the right to an attorney,
and if they can't afford one, the system will appoint a public defender for them.
But in the fiery sector of Hades; people are abandoned. For example: the names of
Abraham and Lazarus are given in Luke 16:19-31, but the rich man's name isn't
given. He's a forgotten man.
"The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot." (Prov
10:7)
Christ's followers have the advantage of a competent defender 24/7/365
● Rom 8:33-34 . . Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?
Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus who died? More than that, who was raised
to life; who is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us?
_
Here in the USA, even the worst among the worst have the right to an attorney,
and if they can't afford one, the system will appoint a public defender for them.
But in the fiery sector of Hades; people are abandoned. For example: the names of
Abraham and Lazarus are given in Luke 16:19-31, but the rich man's name isn't
given. He's a forgotten man.
"The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall rot." (Prov
10:7)
Christ's followers have the advantage of a competent defender 24/7/365
● Rom 8:33-34 . . Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?
Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus who died? More than that, who was raised
to life; who is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us?
_