Bible Study HELL DOES NOT EXIST

[GodsGrace]

Other than there's nothing to be saved from, but besides that....

Hi
Are you saved from anything in this world by being obedient to God?

 

[Randy]

It's clear to you because you believe dead people are alive. If dead people are dead, then those spirits aren't people, they're angels.

This is the problem with starting with the immortal soul doctrine as a base. Man is not a spirit. Man is a flesh being animated by the breath or spirit of life from God. When that breath or spirit returns to God the man is dead. That means those spirits Jesus spoke to were angels.

That's why I asked you to establish the premise in your statement, that these spirits are people. Where does the Bible ever refer to people as spirits?

I don't think I could convince you that we have our own spirit formed in the tent of the body that survives the death of the body,

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

Regardless the spirits were identified and they were people
he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

 

[Doug Brents]

It's clear to you because you believe dead people are alive. If dead people are dead, then those spirits aren't people, they're angels.

This is the problem with starting with the immortal soul doctrine as a base. Man is not a spirit. Man is a flesh being animated by the breath or spirit of life from God. When that breath or spirit returns to God the man is dead. That means those spirits Jesus spoke to were angels.

That's why I asked you to establish the premise in your statement, that these spirits are people. Where does the Bible ever refer to people as spirits?

Gen 2:7 - "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

1 Cor 15:50-58 - "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord."

Why is our labor not in vain? Because there is an immortal reward in Heaven coming for those who are in Christ.

 

[Doug Brents]

Hi
Are you saved from anything in this world by being obedient to God?

Not that it is really applicable to this thread, but yes.
Acts 5:32 - "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him."
Heb 5:9 - "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,"

In both of these what is the condition and what is the reward?
Obedience to God is the condition.
Receiving salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are the reward.

If you are not obedient to Him, you don't receive the rewards.

 

[Butch5]

I don't think I could convince you that we have our own spirit formed in the tent of the body that survives the death of the body,

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

Regardless the spirits were identified and they were people
he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

Yes there is a spirit in man. But, it's not like you think. When you see the word spirit, you're importing the typical English understanding, a disembodied being. However, the Greek and Hebrew words have no such meaning. They mean wind of breath. So, yes, there is a spirit or breath in man. It is the breath of life. It is from God and it is that which gives the man life. We see from the creation of man, in Gen.2:7 that man consists of dust.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

This is crystal clear. God formed man from the dust of the ground. What is man? The dust of the ground. I don't think it gets any clearer than that. Then God breathed something out of Himself into man. That was the breath or spirit of life. Again, crystal clear. When God did that the man "BECAME" (something that he wasn't before) a living soul. Again, crystal clear.

So we see here how God created a soul. He took some dust and formed it into a man. Then He breathed, out of Himself, the breath or spirit of life into that man. From this we conclude that a soul consists of a man, dust of the ground, and the breath or spirit of life. If God takes that breath or spirit of life out of that soul, that soul no longer exists because it no longer has one of its components. The Scriptures tell us that when that happens that breath or spirit of life returns to God and the body returns to the dust. That's all there is. There's nothing left. There's nothing to live on.

We see that there aren't three parts to man, but rather that a soul consists of two parts, the body of dust and the breath or spirit of God. So, the whole being, the soul, consists of the body of dust and the breath or spirit of God.

That's a clear statement in Scripture. If anyone reads a passage of Scripture and draws a different conclusion, they should question their understanding of the passage they're reading. So, if we see a passage of Scripture that speaks of the, body, soul, and spirit, we have to reconcile that with Gen 2:7. So, we understand that the soul is the whole living being. The spirit is the breath or spirit of life that is part of God. And, the body is that body of dust that returns to dust.

So, again, yes, there is a spirit or breath in man, However, it is something of God. It's not man. Man consists of the dust of the earth. God confirms that man is not a spirit in Gen 6.

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (Gen. 6:3 KJV)

Again, man is flesh. The spirit or breath in man is the spirit or breath of life. Again, the Greek and Hebrew words mean wind or breath. They DON'T mean a disembodied being. Christians would have a much better understanding of the Scriptures is translators would stop using the word spirit and use wind or breath instead.

So, when the Bible says, 'your spirit' it's taking about God's breath of life that is in man, So, let's look at the passages you quoted.

While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Lord Jesus receive my breath. Stephen was about to die. He was about to give up his breath. Scripture tells us that the breath of life returns to God when a man dies. Stephen was saying just that, receive my breath. The breath of life in him was about to return to God.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

This passage doesn't mention the spirit.

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

God's breath testifies with our breath. What is our breath? It is the breath of life from God. It's that breath that brought man to life. It's that breath that gives man the ability to think, reason, and understand.

But it is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding. (Job 32:8 NAS)

Both spirit and breath here are Hebrew words that mean breath or wind. There is a breath man and the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding. That is the breath of life or the spirit of life. However, as we see, it is not man. It's God. It's the breath of the Almighty. That's what gives man life, keeps him alive, and gives him all of his abilities. As soon as God retrieves that the man dies.

14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. (Job 34:14-15 KJV)

Again, the Hebrew words translated spirit and breath mean wind or breath. Here we see that it's God breath or spirit that gives man life. Notice too that this breath is in all living beings. Job says if God retrieved it all flesh would die and man would return to the dust. That means that all beings are animated by this breath of life from God.

In all of this the only breath or spirit we see in man is God's. There is nothing that suggests the spirit in man is man.

For who knows a person's thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Here again, the spirit or breath within them is the spirit or breath of God.

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

This passage doesn't mention the word spirit.

Yes, the spirits are defined in the passage.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. (1 Pet. 3:18-22 KJV)

It should be clear from the Scriptures that there is no way these could be people. Man clearly isn't a spirit. Clearly man can't live on after death. We see how man was created and we know where all of the components go when he dies. The soul, which consists of the body and the breath of life, will cease to exist when the breath of life leaves the body. The breath of life will return to God, and the body will return to dust. There is nothing left to live on.

 

[Butch5]

Gen 2:7 - "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

1 Cor 15:50-58 - "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
55 “O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord."

Why is our labor not in vain? Because there is an immortal reward in Heaven coming for those who are in Christ.

What does this have to do with the post you quoted? Man is not immortal. If he was there would be no need for God to promise him eternal life.

 

[Randy]

Yes there is a spirit in man. But, it's not like you think. When you see the word spirit, you're importing the typical English understanding, a disembodied being. However, the Greek and Hebrew words have no such meaning. They mean wind of breath. So, yes, there is a spirit or breath in man. It is the breath of life. It is from God and it is that which gives the man life. We see from the creation of man, in Gen.2:7 that man consists of dust.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

This is crystal clear. God formed man from the dust of the ground. What is man? The dust of the ground. I don't think it gets any clearer than that. Then God breathed something out of Himself into man. That was the breath or spirit of life. Again, crystal clear. When God did that the man "BECAME" (something that he wasn't before) a living soul. Again, crystal clear.

So we see here how God created a soul. He took some dust and formed it into a man. Then He breathed, out of Himself, the breath or spirit of life into that man. From this we conclude that a soul consists of a man, dust of the ground, and the breath or spirit of life. If God takes that breath or spirit of life out of that soul, that soul no longer exists because it no longer has one of its components. The Scriptures tell us that when that happens that breath or spirit of life returns to God and the body returns to the dust. That's all there is. There's nothing left. There's nothing to live on.

We see that there aren't three parts to man, but rather that a soul consists of two parts, the body of dust and the breath or spirit of God. So, the whole being, the soul, consists of the body of dust and the breath or spirit of God.

That's a clear statement in Scripture. If anyone reads a passage of Scripture and draws a different conclusion, they should question their understanding of the passage they're reading. So, if we see a passage of Scripture that speaks of the, body, soul, and spirit, we have to reconcile that with Gen 2:7. So, we understand that the soul is the whole living being. The spirit is the breath or spirit of life that is part of God. And, the body is that body of dust that returns to dust.

So, again, yes, there is a spirit or breath in man, However, it is something of God. It's not man. Man consists of the dust of the earth. God confirms that man is not a spirit in Gen 6.

And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (Gen. 6:3 KJV)

Again, man is flesh. The spirit or breath in man is the spirit or breath of life. Again, the Greek and Hebrew words mean wind or breath. They DON'T mean a disembodied being. Christians would have a much better understanding of the Scriptures is translators would stop using the word spirit and use wind or breath instead.

So, when the Bible says, 'your spirit' it's taking about God's breath of life that is in man, So, let's look at the passages you quoted.



Lord Jesus receive my breath. Stephen was about to die. He was about to give up his breath. Scripture tells us that the breath of life returns to God when a man dies. Stephen was saying just that, receive my breath. The breath of life in him was about to return to God.



This passage doesn't mention the spirit.



God's breath testifies with our breath. What is our breath? It is the breath of life from God. It's that breath that brought man to life. It's that breath that gives man the ability to think, reason, and understand.

But it is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding. (Job 32:8 NAS)

Both spirit and breath here are Hebrew words that mean breath or wind. There is a breath man and the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding. That is the breath of life or the spirit of life. However, as we see, it is not man. It's God. It's the breath of the Almighty. That's what gives man life, keeps him alive, and gives him all of his abilities. As soon as God retrieves that the man dies.

14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. (Job 34:14-15 KJV)

Again, the Hebrew words translated spirit and breath mean wind or breath. Here we see that it's God breath or spirit that gives man life. Notice too that this breath is in all living beings. Job says if God retrieved it all flesh would die and man would return to the dust. That means that all beings are animated by this breath of life from God.

In all of this the only breath or spirit we see in man is God's. There is nothing that suggests the spirit in man is man.



Here again, the spirit or breath within them is the spirit or breath of God.



This passage doesn't mention the word spirit.

Yes, the spirits are defined in the passage.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. (1 Pet. 3:18-22 KJV)

It should be clear from the Scriptures that there is no way these could be people. Man clearly isn't a spirit. Clearly man can't live on after death. We see how man was created and we know where all of the components go when he dies. The soul, which consists of the body and the breath of life, will cease to exist when the breath of life leaves the body. The breath of life will return to God, and the body will return to dust. There is nothing left to live on.

While this passage uses soul it speaks of something beyond the body that only God can punish, (not man), that one should fear more than the death of the body.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

How are you viewing the resurrection of the unrighteous to be condemned since you view the breath of God going back to God?

 

[Doug Brents]

What does this have to do with the post you quoted? Man is not immortal. If he was there would be no need for God to promise him eternal life.

Man's soul is immortal. Man's physical body is not immortal. We are promised eternal life if we are in Christ. We are promised eternal death if we are not in Christ.

 

[Butch5]

One of the most confusing things I find in a debate on this topic is that so many Christians will argue that man is immortal and will live on after death. Yet, these very same people will then say they follow Christ in hope of Eternal life. If you're already immortal why are you seeking immortality? Why would you seek what you supposedly already have? If man is already immortal, why has God promised eternal life to those who believe. Don't they already have eternal life?

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom. 6:23 KJV)

If man is immortal, what is this gift for?

This shows how people don't think through the things they believe, how they fit together to form a whole. Often people have these disjointed ideas that don't fit together. It makes no sense for God to offer eternal life to people who already have eternal life. Why did God send Jesus to die?

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jn. 3:16 KJV)

So, God sent His Son so that believers could have what? Eternal life? Wait, isn't man immortal? Doesn't he already have eternal life? Wait. He sent His Son so that some wouldn't perish? Perish? How could they perish? They are immortal, right? Immortal beings can't perish.

It's no wonder so many people don't understand the Scriptures.

 

[Butch5]

While this passage uses soul it speaks of something beyond the body that only God can punish, (not man), that one should fear more than the death of the body.

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

How are you viewing the resurrection of the unrighteous to be condemned since you view the breath of God going back to God?

If you do a study through the Bible of the word soul, you'll find it's use two ways. It's used in a concrete form of a living being. In Genesis animals are called souls also. It's also used abstractly of life. It's often translated life rather than soul. The soul represents the whole person or the life. So, when Jesus says man can kill the body but not the soul, it refers to the resurrection. A man can kill a person, however, that person's life is in God's hand. That person is dead, however, they will be raised again, so their life hasn't really ended. It's essentially on pause. God will resurrect that man again. So, a man may kill the body, but that life hasn't been destroyed because God will raise it again.

I view the resurrection just as it's depicted in Scripture. God will bring that dust body back into being, breath His breath of life into it again and it will rise up again. We have an example of this given in Ezekiel where God speaks through Ezekiel of Israel's resurrection.

The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. (Ezek. 37:1-14 KJV)

All of the bolded words above are the same Hebrew word, ruach. Translators have used three different English words to translate it. Why didn't they just translate it breath in each case? If they did it would be easy to understand. We see that it was breath that brought these to life. That corresponds to what we say in Gen 2:7. God breathing into the body and it came to life. But then when we get to verse 14 they change it to spirit. This gives many a different idea. Now people are thinking of a disembodied being. If they would just leave it translated as breath it follows right along with Gen 2:7 God, shall put His breath in them and they shall live.

This is how I see the resurrection. Man will be formed again from the dust, have God's breath put back in him, and he will live again.

 

[Butch5]

Man's soul is immortal. Man's physical body is not immortal. We are promised eternal life if we are in Christ. WeNare promised eternal death if we are not in Christ.

If man is immortal why promise him eternal life. Think about it.

I've already given Scripture showing that the Father alone is immortal.

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
(1 Tim. 6:14-16 KJV)

 

[Butch5]

Man's soul is immortal. Man's physical body is not immortal. We are promised eternal life if we are in Christ. We are promised eternal death if we are not in Christ.

Think about what you're saying here. You say man is immortal on one hand and on the other you're looking for a promise of eternal life. Do you have it or not? On one hand you say yes, but on the other you're looking for the promise of eternal lie. He either has it or he doesn't. If he has it, why is he looking for the promise of eternal life? You're contradicting yourself.

 

[Doug Brents]

Think about what you're saying here. You say man is immortal on one hand and on the other you're looking for a promise of eternal life. Do you have it or not? On one hand you say yes, but on the other you're looking for the promise of eternal lie. He either has it or he doesn't. If he has it, why is he looking for the promise of eternal life? You're contradicting yourself.

Man's soul cannot be destroyed. It will never cease to exist. It is immortal. When life on this earth (physical life) is over, our soul will continue to exist: either in eternal joy and peace in Heaven with God (eternal life), or in eternal torment and pain in Hell without God (eternal death).

That is what we are striving to receive. We already posses an eternal nature (or we will put it on when we are resurrected just before Judgement), but will that eternal nature exist in Paradise or in Torment?

 

[Butch5]

Man's soul cannot be destroyed. It will never cease to exist. It is immortal. When life on this earth (physical life) is over, our soul will continue to exist: either in eternal joy and peace in Heaven with God (eternal life), or in eternal torment and pain in Hell without God (eternal death).

That is what we are striving to receive. We already posses an eternal nature (or we will put it on when we are resurrected just before Judgement), but will that eternal nature exist in Paradise or in Torment?

I just gave you Scripture showing that the Father alone is immortal. Do you not believe the Scriptures? And, now you're trying to change the subject. The gift of God is eternal life. Paul didn't say anything about location. If man is immortal please explain why he needs eternal life. If you read my reply in post 105 you'll see clearly from Scripture that man is not immortal.

 

[Doug Brents]

I just gave you Scripture showing that the Father alone is immortal. Do you not believe the Scriptures? And, now you're trying to change the subject. The gift of God is eternal life. Paul didn't say anything about location. If man is immortal please explain why he needs eternal life. If you read my reply in post 105 you'll see clearly from Scripture that man is not immortal.

Correct, man in this life, in a physical body, is mortal. But this life will end. And when it does, we will put on an immortal body (purely spirit), as I have shown in the passages I have cited and quoted.

Yes, the gift of God is eternal life. If we don't receive the gift of life, we will be condemned to eternal death in the Lake of Fire (Hell). Yes, Paul and Jesus several times mention location when they talk about the difference between eternal life and eternal death. Where God is is where we will spend eternal life. Where Satan is going is where we would spend eternal death (aka: outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth).

I read through post 105 several times, and I don't see where the Bible was referenced in that post stating that man is not immortal. Paul said that when we are resurrected we will be immortal. Only God is eternal (having no beginning and no end), but man will become immortal (having a beginning but no end) when we are resurrected before Judgement.

 

[Butch5]

Correct, man in this life, in a physical body, is mortal. But this life will end. And when it does, we will put on an immortal body (purely spirit), as I have shown in the passages I have cited and quoted.

Yes, the gift of God is eternal life. If we don't receive the gift of life, we will be condemned to eternal death in the Lake of Fire (Hell). Yes, Paul and Jesus several times mention location when they talk about the difference between eternal life and eternal death. Where God is is where we will spend eternal life. Where Satan is going is where we would spend eternal death (aka: outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth).

I read through post 105 several times, and I don't see where the Bible was referenced in that post stating that man is not immortal. Paul said that when we are resurrected we will be immortal. Only God is eternal (having no beginning and no end), but man will become immortal (having a beginning but no end) when we are resurrected before Judgement.

You've got some many incorrect presuppositions it's hard to find a place to start. Whatever, you believe about man, Paul states plainly that the Father alone is immortal. That eliminates every other living being that exists. That means that man is not immortal. Man does not put on a spirit body. As I said, that's reincarnation. The Bible doesn't teach reincarnation. It teaches resurrection. That means to stand again. That means that the body you are in now is the same one you will be resurrected in. Resurrection, reincarnation, two completely different concepts.

In Romans 6:23 Paul says nothing about location. The gift of God is eternal life. Again, if you already have that, why are you seeking it? Do you really believe that God would offer eternal life to people who already have eternal life? How does that even make sense?

If you read post 110 or Ezekiel 37 you'll see that man doesn't put on a spirit body. It depicts the resurrection of Israel. It's those same bones and body that are brought back to life. And, as we see, it is God putting His breath into them that gives them life, just like we saw with Adam. It's not an immortal body, it's the same body raised to life. The difference is that those who have been given eternal life will not face death a second time. Unlike those who don't received God's gift of eternal life. That's the whole reason for God promising eternal life.

Where does Paul say man is immortal. Because if he does we have a real problem in Scripture. He told Timothy that the Father alone was immortal. So, if he also said it of man then there's a contradiction. I believe it's more likely that you're misunderstanding Paul's words.

You didn't see in post 105 how man isn't immortal? Read Gen. 2:7. Not only is man not immortal, he wasn't even alive. God created man from the dust of the earth. That's what man is. What do you see there that is immortal? He isn't even alive, let alone immortal. It's not until God breathes something of Himself into the man that the man comes to life. It's God's breath that makes the man alive. When God takes that breath away the man returns to the dust. There is nothing left to live on.

 

[Butch5]

Correct, man in this life, in a physical body, is mortal. But this life will end. And when it does, we will put on an immortal body (purely spirit), as I have shown in the passages I have cited and quoted.

Yes, the gift of God is eternal life. If we don't receive the gift of life, we will be condemned to eternal death in the Lake of Fire (Hell). Yes, Paul and Jesus several times mention location when they talk about the difference between eternal life and eternal death. Where God is is where we will spend eternal life. Where Satan is going is where we would spend eternal death (aka: outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth).

I read through post 105 several times, and I don't see where the Bible was referenced in that post stating that man is not immortal. Paul said that when we are resurrected we will be immortal. Only God is eternal (having no beginning and no end), but man will become immortal (having a beginning but no end) when we are resurrected before Judgement.

Here's some food for thought. You believe you're going to put on an immortal body. Think about this. Paul wrote to Timothy long after Jesus resurrected and ascended to Heaven. So, long after Jesus resurrected, in His resurrected body, Paul said that the Father alone has immortality. What Paul is essentially saying is that Jesus, in His resurrected body, doesn't have immortality. So, how is it that you will have an immortal body, when not even Jesus does?

 

[Doug Brents]

Here's some food for thought. You believe you're going to put on an immortal body. Think about this. Paul wrote to Timothy long after Jesus resurrected and ascended to Heaven. So, long after Jesus resurrected, in His resurrected body, Paul said that the Father alone has immortality. What Paul is essentially saying is that Jesus, in His resurrected body, doesn't have immortality. So, how is it that you will have an immortal body, when not even Jesus does?

Jesus is God, equal in EVERY way to the Father. Therefore, He is also immortal. In 1 Tim 6:13-16, Paul tells Timothy that both the Father and Jesus have immortality. And he tells those at Corinth that we will be given immortality when we are resurrected. Both of these are in Scripture. Disputing either of them is to dispute the Word of God.

 

[Butch5]

Jesus is God, equal in EVERY way to the Father. Therefore, He is also immortal. In 1 Tim 6:13-16, Paul tells Timothy that both the Father and Jesus have immortality. And he tells those at Corinth that we will be given immortality when we are resurrected. Both of these are in Scripture. Disputing either of them is to dispute the Word of God.

Do you believe Scripture or just whatever you want to believe? Paul said plainly, the Father alone. I can only assume that you don't believe Scripture. If that's the case then there is no basis for your claims.

Also, there's a big difference between, being given immortality, and having an immortal body.

 

[GodsGrace]

Then I don't understand how you adhere to the idea of a 1 in 3 God concept when Paul states that to Christians there is one God, the Father. Jesus said of the Father that He was the only true God. However we understand Jesus' Deity, I don't see how we can understand it in any way that would run counter to these statements.

I had two different threads at different times asking why we don't all understand the bible the same way..especially the N.T.
Still haven't figured it out.
When I have a real question about something, I do try to find out what the ECFs believed about the subject. If they didn't know, who did?
Do you know how many times I've heard that they were not inspired and so were not important? It's pretty funny considering that it was they that put together the N.T.

Again...I do not believe in a "1 in 3 God concept".
I believe in 1 God that consists of 3 persons.
Somehow, in a way difficult to comprehend, the 2 Persons are made separate - maybe so that we could understand better. God Himself is not a person,,,He is a being and a powerful one at that.

Jesus was right...there is only ONE TRUE GOD.
Of which the 2nd Person is part.
Of which the Holy Spirit is part.
But we can think of them as separate....
Their nature is the same...
Their attributes are different...
Their function is different...

I don't read anything in the ECFs that runs counter to this understanding.
The WORD for LOGOS of God became the EXTERNAL SON when Jesus was born.
The external Son always existed...because the Word/Logos always existed.

God Himself was manifested in human form for the renewal of eternal life.
Ignatius of Antioch 105

I pray for your happiness forever in our God Jesus Christ.
Ignatius of Antioch 105AD

Next to God we worship and love the Word, who is from the unbegotten
and ineffable God.
Justin Martyr 160AD

There is One God and the Logos proceeding from Him, the Son.
We understand that the Son is inseparable from Him.
Arthenagoras 175AD

(so much more)

Honestly, I still don't quite understand what you believe....
This is not an easy subject to discuss...