faithtransforms
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veteran said:archangel_300 said:I do agree that Christ's true Body cannot be corrupted but let's face it not everyone that attends church is Christ's true body. Wherever there are the body of believers there will also be people who are unsaved as well.
False messiahs have come and false Christs already do exist are they not in the midst of the body of believers in Christ already?
In Matt.24, our Lord warned of many coming in His Name. That's the "many antichrists" idea. But in Matt.24:23 through 26, He was warning of a particular false messiah. The KJV term "false Christs" there is the sole Greek word 'pseudochristos', made up from two Greek words 'pseudo' (fake) and 'Christos' (Christ singular). The DIRECT translation is 'a pseudo Christ', singular. The context of Matt.24:23 and 26 is also singular. Our Lord Jesus gave that warning in relation to the "abomination of desolation" event in Jerusalem.
archangel300 said:Please prove using scripture that a temple is supposed to be rebuilt and it will be in Jerusalem.
Because this seems to be a inference into the scriptures. I can say that a temple will be rebuilt in America or for any other country for that matter and this is the place where the anti christ will sit.
Look at Rev.11:1-2 again, closely. Look at Matt.24:26 about those who claim Christ is in the "secret chambers". That's in reference to those who will declare the pseudo Christ is inside... what? What was our Lord pointing out to His disciples while overlooking the existing Temple complex when He said that? And how does that relate also to the "abomination of desolation" standing in the "holy place"? Is that not enough to understand what He was warning concerning a false messiah inside the temple in Jerusalem setting up idol worship? Go study the Daniel 11 prophecy our Lord quoted from, about the placing of the abomination that maketh desolate; it's involving Jerusalem and not anywhere else on earth.
Also, Daniel 11 shows sacrifices going on in Jerusalem just prior to the placing of the abomination that maketh desolate. What is required for the Jews in Jerusalem to start up Old Covenant animal sacrifices again? A temple! Many of our Christian brethren either don't know about that requirement of a temple, but I guarantee the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem well know it (see their website, do a search on the term Temple Mount Faithful). They are petitioning help from Christian Churches to help in the rebuilding of another temple, and many Churches today are sending funds, some even heifers in prep for sacrifice. In 1997, a company in Tennessee called Jesus, Inc. was sending heifers to the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem. So the Jews there have already been practicing apparently. The wife of a Christian friend of mine returned from a trip to Jerusalem years ago, and said the mollusks required for the purple dye of temple cloth had showed up, something that has not happenned in over 2,000 years.
archangel said:So let's take a look at Revelation 13
Revelation 13:11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those[e] who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.
Horns typically represent power and seeing that they are like the lamb they have power like that of Christ because Christ is known as the "Lamb". This beast comes deceptively looking like and having the power of Christ. He speaks like a dragon meaning the doctrines that come out of the mouth of this beast is from Satan. NOTICE this beast PERFORMS SIGNS AND WONDERS and DECEIVES people BY THESE SIGNS.
Yes, horns are symbolic of powers, and the "another beast" is not plural there, for the Rev.13:11 verse is referring to one who speaks as the "dragon". That is the "little horn" and "vile person" of Daniel. It's the beast king our Lord showed in Rev.17. It's about a certain entity who is to come and take over power of the first beast kingdom, and work miracles to deceive. Our Lord and Apostle Paul both warned of one coming to work great signs and wonders, i.e., miracles. It is that one who speaks as a dragon but has two horns like Christ that sets up the "image" to the beast, the same type as what Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon did with the golden image. That's the same 'pseudo Christ' our Lord showed in Matt.24:23-26.
archangel said:Going to Matthew 24 and the other gospels there is coming a time when false prophets and false Christs will arise with SIGNS AND WONDERS. This is the BEAST.
Matthew 24:23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
Not quite, for there are TWO SEPARATE BEASTS mentioned in Rev.13. The first beast is a kingdom beast that comes up out of the "sea", and involves peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues per Rev.17:15 about the "waters". But in Rev.13:11 forward, that is about "another beast" that comes up out of the "earth", and is a specific entity. It's that "another beast" that takes over power of the first beast kingdom. It's about a kingdom and a king, albeit both are pseudo or false.
ALSO, did you take time to note the "false Christs" phrase in the Greek? Our Lord's Name 'Christos' in the Greek is singular. Don't be confused by the 's' the KJV translators gave in the "false Christs" phrase, because the tense of Matt.24:23-26 is SINGULAR. Don't forget that last part of our Lord's warning in that...
Matt 24:25-26
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
(KJV)
That is SINGULAR TENSE, not plural. Those preaching our Lord was talking about many there is a lie from the enemy, trickled down to many Church leaders by various seminaries who are bent on trying to hide our Lord's warning of 'a pseudo Christ' coming to play Him. Whether you believe me is not important, for when you begin actually hearing many say Christ has come, He's there, or in the "secret chambers", you'll know about the false messiah for sure then.
archangel said:2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
I also have problems with the interpretation of 1260 days being part of the 7 year literal tribulation period. But i'll discuss this later.
II Th 2:3-9
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
All the above underlined words are in the SINGULAR TENSE also. Per 1 John 3:8 the devil sinned from the beginnng. In Isaiah 14 God called Lucifer "a man", because God also created him with the outward likeness of man, as also the angels. This working of wanting to sit in the sides of the north, which is God's Place, and be worshipped as God, was what the very first sin was about, and was done by the devil at his original rebellion (Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28-31). Apostle Paul is actually referring here to that very type of act by Satan. That's what the "man of sin" is about, and is a special pointer to what Satan did of old when he first rebelled against God. Ezekiel 31 is a special parable about it.
The "son of perdition" phrase is another pointer to the devil, because the word 'perdition' is from the Greek word 'apollumi', which is where Satan's title of "Apollyon" in Rev.9 comes from. It is because ONLY the devil and his angels have ALREADY been judged and sentenced to perdition in the "lake of fire". It's link to Judas is because of what he did in following the devil, and our Lord Jesus called Judas "a devil" in John 6:70. Yet even Judas has not been judged yet, and he was already dead when Paul gave this prophecy.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
Paul was having to remind those what he had already told them about this matter, because there were false ones among them confusing the time of Christ's coming and our gathering by passing letters claimed to be from the Apostles (see 2 Thess.2:2 "nor by letter as from us").
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
That "he" of verse 6 about the son of perdition and man of sin is singular, not plural. Paul's talking about a specific entity here, just as our Lord Jesus was also.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,(KJV)
Note the KJV translators capitalized "Wicked" in that to show a proper name. When that happens it's showing a singular entity. That Wicked's working is according to ("after") the working of Satan. All this is pointing to the same false messiah our Lord Jesus warned of in Matt.24 and Mark 13. It's the same one that is the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward. It's the "vile person" and "little horn" of Daniel. It's the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit per Rev.11. It's the beast king that is to be over the ten kings of Rev.17.
So if someone told you to figure out for yourself what the subject is while telling you it has four wheels, an engine, a steering wheel, front seats and back seats, a hood and a trunk, safety belts, air bags, bumpers and headlights, they certainly don't have to tell you it's a car. That's exactly what our Lord has done in His Word on this matter. He has given us ALL the clues to put it all together while not actually telling us directly. He shouldn't need to tell us directly, He's already revealed all things, IF we would only listen to Him.
Veteran, you're a godsend!
By far the most educated in the Word of anyone I have seen on this site. I have two questions, are you pre-trib? And do you think that the "he" that will be taken away is the Holy Spirit with the church at the rapture? And if so, without the Holy Spirit on the earth, how will men be saved?
