Hidden Message in Genesis 5!

[Ryan]

There is error when ones mind is so closed nothing will get in, but also error when ones mind is so open their brains fall out. It's a tightrope walk at times, but that is why we are taught to discern with the help of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Edward]

You have a citation for that? Because I'm not familiar with anywhere in the Bible saying knowledge will be "increased."

Daniel 12:4

4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge./ (NIV)

Or perhaps the "whole drive behind it" is to distract unbelievers from the plainly visible truth contained in Scripture without having to look for "secret messages" or "hidden passageways."

Are you hearing yourself here? It might make them not want to read it? :rolling

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Daniel 12:4

4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge./ (NIV)

You have the meaning of that passage confused. Knowledge itself will not be increased. Knowledge of the Scriptures will increase among men, because the Holy Spirit will stir them up to investigate the meaning of the events of the time. Even unbelievers will begin to suspect that the world is on the verge of judgment, and seek to know more about He who will judge.

Bible commentator John Gill (1697-1771) wrote of this passage:

"Towards the end of the time appointed, many persons will be stirred up to inquire into these things delivered in this book, and will spare no pains or cost to get knowledge of them; will read and study the Scriptures, and meditate on them; compare one passage with another; spiritual things with spiritual, in order to obtain the mind of Christ; will peruse carefully the writings of such who have gone before them, who have attempted anything of this kind; and will go far and near to converse with persons that have any understanding of such things: and by such means, with the blessing of God upon them, the knowledge of this book of prophecy will be increased; and things will appear plainer the nearer the accomplishment of them is; and especially when accomplished, when prophecy and facts can be compared together: and not only this kind of knowledge, but knowledge of all spiritual things, of all evangelic truths and doctrines, will be abundantly enlarged at this time; and the earth will be filled and covered with it, as the sea with its waters; see ( Isaiah 11:9 ) ( Habakkuk 2:14 )."
​

Further, the "end of time" in Daniel is universally understood as referring to the same time period John referred to as the Tribulation. Those seeking to "increase knowledge" are not going to be looking for "hidden Bible codes" but are going to be looking for the plain truth of God as He recorded them for consumption by anyone who wants to read them in His Holy Bible.

 

[Edward]

Let me see if I'm getting this right. I say knowledge will be increased, you say show me. I show the plain text which say it and you say no that's not what it means. You go find something anything which explains it differently (you didn't have it before or you wouldn't have asked for the citation). You tell me it's talking about scripture only, but we were talking about scripture. You say stick to the plain text, but that I don't understand the plain text.

Whatever numbers. :toofunny

 

[Sparkey]

It's looking like some day we may understand, 'endless genealogies' and so much more.
This is so interesting. Thanks, Hawke

Greetings Bethany,
Welcome to the forums!



Sparrowhawke

Here's a link that I've enjoyed watching: Encoded Messages Found in the Bible's Literary Structure Home > Beyond the Veil
Press the [Continue] button in the animation to watch (it requires flash player).

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Let me see if I'm getting this right. I say knowledge will be increased, you say show me. I show the plain text which say it and you say no that's not what it means.

Because it isn't what you think it means. It means more will know, not that new knowledge will become available.

You go find something anything which explains it differently (you didn't have it before or you wouldn't have asked for the citation)

Actually, I am well familiar with that verse, but not in the context that you want to place it in ...

You tell me it's talking about scripture only, but we were talking about scripture.

No, I was. You are talking about "more" Scripture, or at least more knowledge and claiming it will perhaps come from the so-called "Bible codes" and I'm telling you, those don't exist.

You say stick to the plain text, but that I don't understand the plain text.

If you think the "knowledge increase" is new revelation, then you don't understand the plain text.

 

[Edward]

Because it isn't what you think it means. It means more will know, not that new knowledge will become available.

No. There's nothing new under the sun. You're assuming what I think. But if you think knowledge isn't increasing, try stepping out your front door and looking around or picking up a newspaper. Mankinds knowledge has been exponentially increasing for the last 75 years or so.

Actually, I am well familiar with that verse, but not in the context that you want to place it in ...

With all due respect, I don't believe that for a minute or else you wouldn't have said I know of no place in the Bible where it says that. You would have made some reference to it.

No, I was. You are talking about "more" Scripture, or at least more knowledge and claiming it will perhaps come from the so-called "Bible codes" and I'm telling you, those don't exist.

I didn't say more scripture. Please don't speak for me. When scripture speaks of scripture it usually says it is written...as the prophet XXXX wrote....or scriptures so I do conclude that it is speaking of knowledge in general across the board. Nothing new seems to be coming out of the codes, mostly affirmations of the Messiah.

If you think the "knowledge increase" is new revelation, then you don't understand the plain text.

Again, new revelation never came from me. This is you talking.

If you are so closed minded to reject this notion, perhaps we agree to disagree and drop it so that others and I can discuss it? Thank you.

 

[Edward]

Proverbs 25:2

2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;
to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

So everything in scripture is not very plain and easily understood. Much of it can be understood by children, but some of it can not. God makes some things hidden for a couple reasons. SO that unbelievers will not understand, and so that the diligent man can find truths through diligent study. It is honorable to seek out the hidden truths as indicated in the above scripture.

Bible codes are perhaps one of Gods ways to hide something for later realization by diligent study. To say that there is absolutely nothing to it would be putting God in a box and exalting ourselves and our understanding further than we should when we are not to be leaning upon our own understanding. Do we know Gods ways? Do we know everything there is to know about God? Will we limit God with our own ignorance and say it is not possible for Him to do something like this? Hmmm.

The way that we approach Bible codes is important. We must be careful not to approach it with the wrong heart. There is a difference in searching the codes to discover Gods ways and plan, and using it as a ouija board so to speak for divination. That would be wrong. Trying to read into it what we would want to see is not the same as reading it to see what it says. God is big on numbers so it isn't really surprising to me that there is some codes present in the scriptures.

There are no coincidences with God. That Torh is spelled out so many times with the same number of spacing is no accident. It goes against reason and mathematics. It is absolutely amazing and provides credence and validation to his Word as being inspired. In these times of little faith and great evil, it is easy to comprehend that God would do such a thing. This is science and Theology coming together. Things like this may turn a certain amount of fence sitters towards God, providing a slightly bigger harvest for Him. Praise the Lord.

 

[Edward]

I found a couple very informative videos on Bible codes. It seems as if some world class mathematicians have set out to prove or disprove the probability of the codes being an accident or coincidence. They said that of course any large text will give up words with the ELS system, but to find other relevant information there also is nigh impossible. They talk about there being words in Moby Dick, War & Peace, and so forth, and how the critics use these texts with words as a way to discredit the Bible codes of the Torah. There are very many highly schooled people (with PHD's and such) that have set out to prove or disprove their existence. These are not some guy pounding on his 'puter in his basement like me, but very credible people. They all come to the conclusion, it is real. They talk with critics and proponants in the videos, giving very good answers to the critics.

This is not new I found out, many people through history have made such claims. Sir Issac Newton, and others, too many to recall or list. The NSA has been working on this for a long time and didn't like the results they got with super computers working on it. The NSA's people came up with a probability of them being an accident at like 0.0000473 or something like that.

The Genesis code is much more than I originally posted it to be. The first five books of the Bible (the Torah) goes like this: Genesis has Torh spelled out as discuused, Exodus has Torh spelled out, Leviticus has YWHW spelled out, Numbers and Deuteronomy both have Torh spelled out in ELS fashion. This suggests that the Torah all points to the Name of God, from both sides. (all languages east of Jeruselum flow from right to left, all languages west of Jereselum flow from left to right). If one has an open mind and watches these videos...it WILL make you go hmmm. Enjoy!

[video=youtube;uXwBv3bXf1Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=WLF4F986BEF81C4081&v=uXwBv3bXf1Q&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

[Edward]

[video=youtube;rK4rjvP6RD0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=WLF4F986BEF81C4081&v=rK4rjvP6RD0[/video]

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

No. There's nothing new under the sun. You're assuming what I think.

You've made it obvious what you think, so there is no assumption involved.

But if you think knowledge isn't increasing, try stepping out your front door and looking around or picking up a newspaper.

Surely you aren't trying to say that Daniel was talking about general knowledge increasing? When God considers man's knowledge foolishness, you're going to attempt to make Daniel say that?

Mankinds knowledge has been exponentially increasing for the last 75 years or so.

More like about 3,000 years, but Daniel -- God's messenger through whom God spoke -- isn't talking about "knowledge" like making a light bulb or finding the one millionth decimal place for pi. He -- they -- are talking about spiritual knowledge and the ability to recognize the end times as they approach.

With all due respect, I don't believe that for a minute or else you wouldn't have said I know of no place in the Bible where it says that.

You just called me a liar, so I'd expect an apology forthwith. There is no "respect" in making that statement.

You would have made some reference to it.

Since it doesn't say what you think it says -- again, that's not an assumption, it is based on what you have claimed about it -- then my statement is accurate. I await your apology.

 

[Ryan]

Thanks Edward,

Very interesting and profound stuff. Don't know if I mentioned this before, but Leviticus is a book we all want to run away from and not study intensely, when it's a book we should take notice of and pour substantial amount of time in.

Those videos look a bit dated, just wondering if there is anything else they've uncovered in the meantime?

Here is another video about the Hebrew language you might find enlightening.

[video=youtube;od-xkRDw6nk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od-xkRDw6nk[/video]

 

[Sparkey]

How may I emphasize that General Talk allows some debate yet it is NOT a debate forum? Can we join together please to stop escalating these types of things to the place where Moderators need get involved?

Daniel 12:4

4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge./ (NIV)

Because it isn't what you think it means. It means more will know, not that new knowledge will become available.

Actually, I am well familiar with that verse, but not in the context that you want to place it in ...

No. There's nothing new under the sun. You're assuming what I think. But if you think knowledge isn't increasing, try stepping out your front door and looking around or picking up a newspaper. Mankinds knowledge has been exponentially increasing for the last 75 years or so.



With all due respect, I don't believe that for a minute or else you wouldn't have said I know of no place in the Bible where it says that. You would have made some reference to it.

You just called me a liar, so I'd expect an apology forthwith. There is no "respect" in making that statement.

Again, help me out here. How may I emphasize that General Talk allows some debate yet it is NOT a debate forum?

 

[Edward]

Surely you aren't trying to say that Daniel was talking about general knowledge increasing? When God considers man's knowledge foolishness, you're going to attempt to make Daniel say that?

That's a tricky question. I'm not trying to put words in Daniels mouth, yet perhaps I did take it to mean knowledge in general, which is true. Spiritual knowledge is increasing also.

More like about 3,000 years, but Daniel -- God's messenger through whom God spoke -- isn't talking about "knowledge" like making a light bulb or finding the one millionth decimal place for pi. He -- they -- are talking about spiritual knowledge and the ability to recognize the end times as they approach.

Perhaps. Even so, Spiritual knowledge is increasing also. Surely you can't deny that. These codes being found are evidence of that I think.

You just called me a liar, so I'd expect an apology forthwith. There is no "respect" in making that statement.

Fair enough. I apologize. You seem very smart at most times, but at times it seems as if you are being closed minded about certain things. Being able to listen to something with an open mind, setting aside our preconceived notions, can be a great tool for learning new things. If after close examination of (whatever) we can not agree with it...it shouldn't shake our faith. Proverbs 18:13 certainly applies to our everyday life and our exegesis of spiritual matters, does it not?

 

[Edward]

Thanks Edward,

Very interesting and profound stuff. Don't know if I mentioned this before, but Leviticus is a book we all want to run away from and not study intensely, when it's a book we should take notice of and pour substantial amount of time in.

Those videos look a bit dated, just wondering if there is anything else they've uncovered in the meantime?

Here is another video about the Hebrew language you might find enlightening.

I agree, this stuff deserves a closer look. I do not know if anything newer has cropped up.
I'll watch that vid.

 

[Edward]

Again, help me out here. How may I emphasize that General Talk allows some debate yet it is NOT a debate forum?

I understand. I'll make a greater effort to choose my words more carefully. (see above!)

 

[Ryan]

Short 10 minute clip. No this stuff is not coincidental.

[video=youtube;hA4-NENoWE8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA4-NENoWE8[/video]

 

[Edward]

Interesting and enlightening as you say Ryan, thanks. Here's part 2 of your video:

[video=youtube;rI-OmrlfZi0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rI-OmrlfZi0[/video]

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Nah.

It could be just coincidental, or it could have easily been installed by a human author.

Remember, mere humans came up with more outstanding things than making the names in a genealogy appear to be a poorly constructed sentence.

For instance, Pythagorus, who lived around 570BC-495BC, came up with the Pythagorean theorem, among other things.

 

[Edward]

Nah.

It could be just coincidental, or it could have easily been installed by a human author.

Remember, mere humans came up with more outstanding things than making the names in a genealogy appear to be a poorly constructed sentence.

For instance, Pythagorus, who lived around 570BC-495BC, came up with the Pythagorean theorem, among other things.

Single words being found here and there would easily be coincidental. But the fact that in every beginning chapter of the Torh (except Leviticus, where is spelled YWHW, or the name of God) reduces the probability of coincidence to a mere 0.0000047 or in that neighborhood) the same words being spelled out in the same fashion eliminates the possibility of coincidence. This number and info came from our own NSA and their work. Not bible believing people. Our government tried to discredit it and came up with the same results as the mathematicians. It's all in the video. Interviews with Government people who worked on the project, Rabbis, scholars, mathematicians...all very credible people, who all get the same exact results!

I believe that to suggest that a bunch of rabbis or sages from biblical times conspired to do this, and achieved it...is very far fetched.