Hidden Message in Genesis 5!

[reba]

numbers

 

[Domenic]

This is no slight of hand parlor trick. Do you believe that the Bible is inspired?

I do, but Edward, my friend, not in secret. In plain wording. Once I heard how the so-called "bible codes" are found, I immediately realized they are a hoax. Perhaps a well-meaning hoax that even has its perpetrators fooled, but nonetheless, a hoax. Here's how the "codes" are found. Start with any letter ("L") and read every nth letter ("N") thereafter in the book, not counting spaces. If an entire book such as Genesis is searched, the result is a long string of letters. Using different values for L and N, one can generate many strings of letters. Imagine wrapping the string of letters around a cylinder in such a way that all the letters can be displayed. Flatten the cylinder to reveal several rows with columns of equal length, except perhaps the last column, which might be shorter than all the rest. Now search for meaningful names in proximity to dates. Search horizontally, vertically, diagonally, any which way. Of course you will find combinations of letters that spell words. It is mathematically impossible not to do so. As I pointed out earlier in the thread, you can use popular novels to do the exact same thing. Particularly if, as has been done, the rows and columns of letters are slid back and forth until the best possible number of words is "created."

What has been "revealed" are famous names in close proximity to dates of birth and death. Do they mean anything spiritually? Not that anyone can tell. Many have claimed that these "codes" can be used to predict the future. This is absolutely unfounded. There is no scientific or mathematical basis for such a statement, and the reasoning used to come to such a conclusion in the book is logically flawed. While it is true that some historical events have been shown to be encoded in the Book of Genesis in certain configurations, it is absolutely not true that every similar configuration of "encoded" words necessarily represents a potential historical event. In fact, quite the opposite is true: most such configurations will be quite random and are expected to occur in any text of sufficient length. Drosnin states that his "prediction" of the assassination of Prime Minister Rabin is "proof" that the "Bible Code" can be used to predict the future. A single success, regardless of how spectacular, or even several such "successful" predictions proves absolutely nothing unless the predictions are made and evaluated under carefully controlled conditions. Any respectable scientist knows that "anecdotal" evidence never proves anything.

Drosnin once said, "When my critics find a message about the assassination of a prime minister encrypted in Moby-Dick, I'll believe them." US mathematician Brandon McKay of Cal-berkley promptly produced an ELS analysis of Moby-Dick predicting not only Indira Ghandi's assassination, but the assassinations of Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln, and Yitzhak Rabin, as well as the death of Diana, Princess of Wales. Mathematician David Thomas of the University of Missouri did an ELS on Genesis and found the words "code" and "bogus" close together not once but 60 times. What are the odds of that happening? Thomas also did an ELS analysis on Drosnin's Bible Code II: The Countdown (2002) and found the message "The Bible Code is a silly, dumb, fake, false, evil, nasty, dismal fraud and snake-oil hoax." That from Drosnin's own book.

This is in there, and it's pretty far fetched to think that a consortium of Rabbis worked this into the Bible somehow.

I'm sure they didn't. But their methods are far from scientific. They are not controlled experiments, and in cases where a series of hundreds or thousands of letters on a single, long, fragile strip fail to produce anything significant, the size of the cylinder around which they are wrapped is changed so as to "allow" for a better "read" of the data.

This is there, and the Torah being spelled out once could be a fluke, but when it happens twice (Genesis-Exodus) the odds of that happening are astonomical.

If it were in a single, specifically defined, and carefully measured "distance" within the chosen letter patterns, I'd probably agree. But there is no standard by which to count the letters. Researchers can sit down and literally say, "Well let's start with the letter "E" today and count forward 177 letters, and begin writing those down until we get to, say, 2,000 letters, and we'll type them all out onto a single paper strip, wrap it around a cylinder -- what size today? How about a 1-1/4" diameter one today? -- then flatten it all out on single sheet of paper and see what we find?" There is no science to that method. It is a parlor game. And as I said, when they find nothing that interests them, they change the size of the cylinder and try again.

Did you know the same method has found "codes" in the Qur'an?

http://www.kuran-sifresi.com/english/

Is it now to be considered inspired? What about Moby-Dick? War and Peace? Dronin's second book?

I'm sorry, I just don't believe God would act in this way. I have every confidence that these researchers are not deliberately misleading anyone. They are misleading themselves as well. I do not believe there is a "bible code." I do not see a need for one. God has spoken plainly. We need nothing more.

As a boy in Spain in 1491,I heard a man of little means asked the King, and Queen for ships to sail west, and find a new route to China. I was amazed, this man had the silly idea the world was round. Well, in 1492 the Queen gave this stupid man three small ships, and he sailed west. It's been more than two months...nobody has heard form him. We all know what became of him...he saild off the earth...even I tried to warn him out of pity for his stupidness. But I was just a boy. I could not save him. Stupid people should stay stupid, and listen to we who are educated. It is for their own good.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

As a boy in Spain in 1491, A man of little means asked the King, and Queen for ships to sail west, and find a new route to China. I was amazed, this man had the silly idea the world was round. Well, in 1492 the Queen gave this stupid man three small ships, and he saild west. It's been more than two months...nobody has heard form him. We all know what became of him...he saild off the earth...even I tried to warn him out of pity for his stupidness. But I was just a boy. I could not save him. Stupid people should stay stupid, and listen to we who are educated. It is for their own good.

Unlike the bible coders, Columbus could not change oceans, or courses, if he found nothing that interested him. Unlike the bible coders, Columbus faced death from a thousand different sources on a daily basis and, in the interest of real science, continued on the course God set him on. The bible coders don't face death, they don't have a scientific method, and they are playing with a known mathematical anomaly -- an infinite number of sequences will produce an infinite number of possibilities.

Much as Drosnin doesn't like hearing this, it is true that an infinite number of monkeys using an infinite number of typewriters will produce the entire works of Shakespeare -- or a reproduction of the Bible, for that matter. Their work would come in bits and pieces, a sentence here, a paragraph there, perhaps even a whole page once in a great while. But regardless of "how," those works would be duplicated. Not as a great surprising miracle. As a statistical certainty. That really is all the coders are proving, a statistical certainty. Given the randomness and the huge number of letters, anything is possible. It should be taken as a sign for the adherents to the "code" that nothing significant has been produced. Nothing will be, in my opinion.

Columbus didn't have an infinite number of courses in an infinite number of oceans to work with. He was either going to be right -- or die. The bible coders don't have that problem.

 

[Edward]

If it were in a single, specifically defined, and carefully measured "distance" within the chosen letter patterns, I'd probably agree.

But it is. you count in 7 letters for the first letter (T) and then 49 more (7 squared) for each subsequent letter.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

But it is. you count in 7 letters for the first letter (T) and then 49 more (7 squared) for each subsequent letter.

No, they use an endless number of values for "L" and "N" -- there is no set formula. That's why they get such variances in their results. Then, as I said ...

It strikes me that, if this were of God, we would find a value for "L" and a value for "N" that would eliminate the need to slide the letter strip back and forth until we find a reasonable number of "codes" that make sense to us. If it were of God, we'd wrap that strip around a certain cylinder and simply start reading from the first letter of the first row right through to the end. We haven't seen that, and I doubt that we will.

Until we see that, it isn't anything but (sorry for using this term, but it essentially is exactly this) a parlor trick.

 

[Ryan]

I really do not understand the big deal numbers? It is not creating a different doctrine, theology, movement. As Edward said, it just speaks to the awesomeness found in his word. If you would ever do a study on the aleph - tav, just on each individual letters, your mind=blown. There is a depth to God's language, and why wouldn't one want to spend time studying the very words he spoke into existence. Every jot and tittle speaks a story, let us have fun. We aren't asking for your permission, just wanna share some cool stuff found in the bible.

 

[Edward]

Here is Chuck Missler explaining it and walking you through it. Go to 13:00 into it if you don't want to watch the whole thing, it's only a few minutes to go through the part about the TORH being spelled out.

[video=youtube;1QdUhNY6DnY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1QdUhNY6DnY[/video]

 

[fishbreath]

Adam..........=............Man
Seth...........=............Appointed
Enosh.........=.............Mortal
Cainan........=.............Sorrow
Mahalalel.....=.............The Blessed God
Jared..........=.............Shall come down
Enoch.........=.............Teaching
Methuselah..=.............His Death Shall Bring
Lamech.......=.............The Despairing
Noah..........=.............Comfort

very interesting indeed.. I'm sure there are many more hidden gems in the word of God which will be revealed as these end times continue..

 

[YosefHayim]

Now this is weird. I find conflict of meanings also. I have been to maybe a dozen different websites with Biblical names and meanings and hardly any of them agree on meanings and some of them aren't even listed at some sites. I do not know this pastors source for these meanings of names that he gave me, but I am going to try to find out. One would think that there would not be disagreement as to the meanings of names, they mean what they mean, right? Like I've always that Matthew meant "gift from God" but now, who knows? This is a little discouraging and I want to get to the bottom of it.

Go to Bible-codes.org and email the site creators and ask them for their sources. They possibly might be able to lead you somewhere. I saw their video before, and noticed someone a while back making a comment concerning this. Apparently they used other resources other than Strong's.

Hebrew is an amazing language.
www.inner.org/hebleter/default.htm

Hebrew letters have a meaning themselves. A hebrew letter has 7 meanings so a word has 70 meanings.

ה Hey can mean -- behold.
ו Waw/vav nail -- estebalish
י Yod -- hand or arm
ע Ayin -- Eye, see, wisdom
ש Shin -- destroy,

Here's YHWH for you (Yod - he - vav - he)
Hand - Behold - Nail - Behold
Behold the hand that was nailedto the cross?

Here's Jesus' Hebrew name: Yeshua (Yod - shin - vav - ayin )
Hand - Destroy - Establishment - Eye
Yeshua is theHand thatDestroys the Establishment of the eye. The eye of (Nimrod, Horus, Osiris, etc.) the world religion and world government?

 

[Domenic]

Now this is weird. I find conflict of meanings also. I have been to maybe a dozen different websites with Biblical names and meanings and hardly any of them agree on meanings and some of them aren't even listed at some sites. I do not know this pastors source for these meanings of names that he gave me, but I am going to try to find out. One would think that there would not be disagreement as to the meanings of names, they mean what they mean, right? Like I've always that Matthew meant "gift from God" but now, who knows? This is a little discouraging and I want to get to the bottom of it.

Go to Bible-codes.org and email the site creators and ask them for their sources. They possibly might be able to lead you somewhere. I saw their video before, and noticed someone a while back making a comment concerning this. Apparently they used other resources other than Strong's.

Hebrew is an amazing language.
www.inner.org/hebleter/default.htm

Hebrew letters have a meaning themselves. A hebrew letter has 7 meanings so a word has 70 meanings.

ה Hey can mean -- behold.
ו Waw/vav nail -- estebalish
י Yod -- hand or arm
ע Ayin -- Eye, see, wisdom
ש Shin -- destroy,

Here's YHWH for you (Yod - he - vav - he)
Hand - Behold - Nail - Behold
Behold the hand that was nailedto the cross?

Here's Jesus' Hebrew name: Yeshua (Yod - shin - vav - ayin )
Hand - Destroy - Establishment - Eye
Yeshua is theHand thatDestroys the Establishment of the eye. The eye of (Nimrod, Horus, Osiris, etc.) the world religion and world government?

No man can chose to serve God. God chooses who he wants, and who he wants is filled with joy. He opens the servants eyes to the full truth.

John 6:44

You who search for Gods truth are my brothers, and I love all of you.

Gods servant
Domenic

 

[Sparkey]

"There's a lot of nonsense that published about it," (quoting the video, not my words but the words of Chuck Missler in the intro) but it is also true that it is the Glory of God to conceal a matter and it is for kings to search out a matter. My son is named "Ryan," a word meaning "little king," does he qualify?

I watched the video, Edward. Thank you. Also, Methuselah isn't the oldest man in the Bible. Why do we leave out Jesus who is alive! He is risen and He is alive! He's the oldest. No bout adoubt it.

I think there is abundant "proof" for the Bible but when it comes to "hidden messages"? We can find hidden messages in other ancient documents. That does nothing to take away the wonder of it all, but I hesitate to say "Yep! That proves it," because what if somebody used the exact same style of "proof" for something I don't believe? Hebrew itself is a fascinating language and the sound of it carries messages like the sound of music does. "♫ The hills are alive, with the sound...." oh, nevermind. Too early for song, I'm on the left coast and it's not even 4:00 am yet.

I also noticed in the video at beginning around 20:09/59:09 and thereabouts, is a discussion of the day that Noah's arc "landed" and it correlates to the discussion we hold here about the 14th of Nissan and the resurrection. That is fascinating. Isn't it?

 

[Edward]

You're right Sparrow, it doesn't really prove it. It's just a piece of evidence. Another straw on the pile that points a certain direction. I don't base my faith on it, God has shown Himself to be real to me before I ever heard of these codes. Numbers is right inasmuch as we should read what is plainly written in the scriptures as our message. There's some on the board who discount Genesis and other parts of the bible based on scientific evidence or the lack thereof. If this sort of thing would cause any of those to go hmm, and take a closer look at the scriptures and spark a seed of faith which ultimately leads to their salvation and more glory to God though, well hallelujah!

I'm not trying to read anything into it, nor tell the future with it. Don't need to, I skipped to the ending and see how it turns out, God wins, lol. Greater minds than mine found these things, some world class mathematicians and people in the NSA working with their computers have all came to the same conclusion about it, it's by design. I personally find it hard to believe how anyone could NOT believe in God, His fingerprints are all around us if we only look. So I do believe it. Who knows the thoughts of God? I wouldn't put it past Him to be able to do something of this sort, or that He would do it. We probably, as men, will never be able to fully comprehend the depths of Gods words until that day that we are transformed with new bodies and minds. It is a marvel, another wondrous thing that we have been given to further ponder the workings and realities of God.I don't think we should base our faith on this, but perhaps should not ignore it either. It' is quite amazing.

 

[Domenic]

We brothers, Are under command to test Gods his word. I John 3:1-4 It does not suggest to leave this to others, because some who confess to be of our God...are not.

 

[Deborah13]

Technically it isn't a code and it certainly isn't a proof of God's inspiration but if you've not experienced it before, prepare for a new way of looking for things. Other examples of this device may be found in many, many ancient literary works and oratories.

Hi Sparrow, just read your post and it peaked my interest (always the student with the inquiring mind) anyway I found this site from your google search and found it to be very interesting and how it can actually be quite helpful in understand difficult verses. Have a blessed day! It's a church site.
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/egreek/egreek09.htm

 

[Edward]

Now this is weird. I find conflict of meanings also. I have been to maybe a dozen different websites with Biblical names and meanings and hardly any of them agree on meanings and some of them aren't even listed at some sites. I do not know this pastors source for these meanings of names that he gave me, but I am going to try to find out. One would think that there would not be disagreement as to the meanings of names, they mean what they mean, right? Like I've always that Matthew meant "gift from God" but now, who knows? This is a little discouraging and I want to get to the bottom of it.

Go to Bible-codes.org and email the site creators and ask them for their sources. They possibly might be able to lead you somewhere. I saw their video before, and noticed someone a while back making a comment concerning this. Apparently they used other resources other than Strong's.

Hebrew is an amazing language.
www.inner.org/hebleter/default.htm

Hebrew letters have a meaning themselves. A hebrew letter has 7 meanings so a word has 70 meanings.

ה Hey can mean -- behold.
ו Waw/vav nail -- estebalish
י Yod -- hand or arm
ע Ayin -- Eye, see, wisdom
ש Shin -- destroy,

Here's YHWH for you (Yod - he - vav - he)
Hand - Behold - Nail - Behold
Behold the hand that was nailedto the cross?

Here's Jesus' Hebrew name: Yeshua (Yod - shin - vav - ayin )
Hand - Destroy - Establishment - Eye
Yeshua is theHand thatDestroys the Establishment of the eye. The eye of (Nimrod, Horus, Osiris, etc.) the world religion and world government?

I went to http://www.khouse.org/articles/2000/284/ and there it was. I suppose they have been asked this before, for the sources that he used to come up with this. Chuck didn't actually figure this out himself, but found it amazing and decided to share it. He did some research on it before sharing it of course, as any good pastor would. Here's a summary of sources from the link, but some of this pertains to some other scripture also.

Sources:

Missler Chuck, Cosmic Codes: Hidden Messages from the Edge of Eternity, KoinoniaHouse, 1999.
Jones, Alfred, Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids, MI, 1990.
Kaplan, Rabbi Aryeh, The Living Torah, Maznaim Publishing Corporation, Jerusalem, 1981.
Pink, Arthur W., Gleanings in Genesis, Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, IL, 1922.
Rosenbaum, M., and Silbermann, A., Pentateuch with Onkelos's Translation (into Aramaic) and Rashi's Commentary, Silbermann Family Publishers, Jerusalem, 1973.
Stedman, Ray C., The Beginnings, Word Books, Waco, TX, 1978./

As an aside, where did you get the greek text at? I tried to download it before and couldn't get it to work on my 'puter for some reason, so thought you may have a different better source for them.

 

[Ryan]

Hebrew is an amazing language.
www.inner.org/hebleter/default.htm

Hebrew letters have a meaning themselves. A hebrew letter has 7 meanings so a word has 70 meanings.

ה Hey can mean -- behold.
ו Waw/vav nail -- estebalish
י Yod -- hand or arm
ע Ayin -- Eye, see, wisdom
ש Shin -- destroy,

Here's YHWH for you (Yod - he - vav - he)
Hand - Behold - Nail - Behold
Behold the hand that was nailedto the cross?

Here's Jesus' Hebrew name: Yeshua (Yod - shin - vav - ayin )
Hand - Destroy - Establishment - Eye
Yeshua is theHand thatDestroys the Establishment of the eye. The eye of (Nimrod, Horus, Osiris, etc.) the world religion and world government?

I would just be leary of this site. Anything that promotes kabbalism should light up a red flag immediately.

Here are a couple other sources whose writers are believers in Jesus.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/1_introduction.html


http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/audio/hiddentreasures/letterindex.html

 

[Sparkey]

Technically it isn't a code and it certainly isn't a proof of God's inspiration but if you've not experienced it before, prepare for a new way of looking for things. Other examples of this device may be found in many, many ancient literary works and oratories.

Hi Sparrow, just read your post and it peaked my interest (always the student with the inquiring mind) anyway I found this site from your google search and found it to be very interesting and how it can actually be quite helpful in understand difficult verses. Have a blessed day! It's a church site.
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/egreek/egreek09.htm

When you study music you see this very same thing too. Hebrew is such a rich language and the sound of the oral readings has distinct emphasis. I love the "First Five Books of Moses" translation by Everett Fox for this reason. It's (Chiasmus or "inverse parallelism") in music too!

 

[Sparkey]

I would just be leary of this site. Anything that promotes kabbalism

Thank you, Ryan. I love the voice of experience and agree with your caution about kaballah, Cabala or Qabbālâ or technically and literally קַבָּלָה‎ (receiving/tradition). Babies might drink that milk and they would later "spit up" because babies do that (I know this from experience too). Here's the deal, "My sheep know my voice," so yes, I agree with the need for caution but also know that The Lord, our Christ knows how to keep us from harm. I still don't like that stuff, have not looked deeply but didn't need to.

Cordially,
Sparrow

 

[YosefHayim]

I would just be leary of this site. Anything that promotes kabbalism should light up a red flag immediately.

I know kabbalism is pretty much an occult perversion of Judasim, that just happened to be the first Google result for meanings of Hebrew letters.

Here are some source on just Waw/Vav
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_waw.html - tent peg, hook, add secure
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/Aleph-Bet/Vav/vav.html
http://tamarajo.hubpages.com/hub/Fa...-in-the-Hebrew-Aleph-Bet-Dalet-Hey-Vav-Part-2 -Vav "ו" the sixth letter of the Hebrew Aleph-Bet is a picture of a tent peg or nail that would have secured an ancient home indicating the idea of securing, connecting, and establishing.

Here's a link concerning Kabbalah that I'll add
http://leavethecult.com/kabbalah-and-mysticism/

"Esoteric Rabbinical teachers believe that Moses passed this teachings orally to other elders and for some reason he decided not to include them in the Pentateuch.Obviously, that is only a myth that lacks of biblical support."

​

"Is Kabbalah (Cabala) a holy teaching? No, in fact there is nothing Holy in any of these obscure traditions sustained in the Talmud, Mishnah and Zohar. These are doctrines of demons and all they do is to corrupt the gospel of salvation. Unfortunately, modern Christianity has corrupted itself with all sorts of Gnostic kabbalistic (Cabala) teachings, bringing the church to a New Messianic Era of Spiritual Prostitution."

​

Links about YHWH "Hand-behold-nail-behold" and Yeshua "Hand-destroy-establishment-eye"
http://leavethecult.com/the-all-seeing-eye/
http://www.luke1721.info/2012/02/behold-nail-behold-hand-exodus-314-this.html
https://www.bible.com/notes/7052258/the-hand-that-destroys-the-establishment-of-the-eye
http://www.answersintheendtimes.com/Hebrew-Studies/YHWH-The-Hand-The-Nail

YHWH, Another pictographic meaning for Yeshua, and Mohammad's hebrew name
[video=youtube;WXgnOX9RhqQ]http://youtu.be/WXgnOX9RhqQ[/video]
[video=youtube;1wiBtYITrxM]http://youtu.be/1wiBtYITrxM[/video]

(see also: mythology and the coming great deception by rob skiba)

As an aside, where did you get the greek text at? I tried to download it before and couldn't get it to work on my 'puter for some reason, so thought you may have a different better source for them.

What I put was Hebrew, not Greek.

I just copied and pasted.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/ has a greek and hebrew concordance.

Use these 3 sites for finding Hebrew words.
http://www.bible.cc - verse by verse parallel
http://www.biblos.com - has greek and hebrew
http://www.interlinearbible.org - has Greek and Hebrew
You can click on the Hebrew or Greek words on these sites.

Greek and Hebrew Alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet#Pronunciation_of_letter_names
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

Also, I believe you can go into Control Panel on your computer if you are using Windows and go into Region and Language. Open up your onscreen keyboard to see what letters you are using.
http://www.conversationexchange.com/resources/keyboard-language.php