HOLY SPIRIT convicts of what?

[Deborah13]

i do not preach that way nor have i ever been a member of a church that has. conviction of the holy spirit..is not false doctrine your works follow salvation but your works do not get you to heaven.. if people would study read the bible instead of following man. they could be free............. what do you consider the truth?

Because you have never been in a church that preaches works for salvation doesn't mean that there aren't millions of people who are in those churches. I praise God that there are more and more churches preaching Grace loud and clear. That there are preachers of grace being televised because so many people are in bondage to doctrine of works. Because I have read many of your posts over the last months I believe you are a compassionate and sincere man of God I will take the time to try to explain with a real life situation. This is not my testimony, mine is much different and in a way I respect this woman very much for her determination to do what she thinks the Lord expects of her. I read what she said on a blog in a pastor's site.
This woman had been divorced (not for adultery) many years before (no children). She eventually remarried a christian man and has two adolescent children with him. They were happily married and attending church. She had done everything she could (asked for forgiveness, etc) but because of this works church teaching she thought she had lost her salvation and that her children were in grave danger because she was living in a perpetual state of sin and causing her husband of 15 yrs. to be a adulter. She felt guilty all the time and thought that it was the Holy Spirit convicting her of this sin she was living in. She left her husband and her children with him. She sees her children all the time and her husband too but they are no longer a family that lives and loves together, attends church together, prays together. I wonder what her children think of God. satan is rejoicing I'm sure, another happy home destroyed and he used corrupted church doctrine to do it. "God says" corrupted. What is the one unforgivable sin, divorce and remarriage for any reason other than adultery. Women, men and families are destroyed. Woman stay in abusive relationships, some until they are killed and sometimes along with their child, because of works doctrine and if they do leave they are tormented by the accuser and they think it's the Holy Spirit convicting them. Some backslide because they think they have lost their salvation anyway. They don't reject Jesus, they believe all they believed before about Him being their Redeemer and He is wonderful, God come in the flesh. But they are the evil, dirty sinner that can't be forgiven. If a woman leaves an abuser can she honestly repent of that sin, no, because she would not go back even if she could.
So it starts very often with the works doctrine but it doesn't have to. Just thinking that you are living in sin and that the Holy Spirit is convicting you of that can destroy. Christians need to know that the Holy Spirit testifies to the redeeming blood of Jesus. That He points us to Jesus and His righteousness and that we are righteous in Him. If we are born again we have the laws written on our hearts and minds, our own conscious will convict us and the Holy Spirit will remind us that we are the children of God and that it is by His blood alone that we are justified. If we see it any other way we are fallin from grace and sin will take hold.

 

[Mitspa]

Good post Deb. This is a different spirit, it is not the Spirit of God that brings liberty, but it is a spirit of bondage. I can sense it when I walk into a group that has been under its yoke. I can see it as death upon their faces. Many are in bondage to such false doctrines and do not know it , nor do they understand the liberty we have In Christ.

Many sinners have went to their death, and like you said many have left the church, because of these false teachings.

I thank My God that I will never be under such a yoke of bondage, because I know the Truth and the truth has made me free!

 

[ezra]

Because you have never been in a church that preaches works for salvation doesn't mean that there aren't millions of people who are in those churches.

that is not what i said... my point is i know the truth from studying the word. over the years i have sat under many ministers.. some have preached bondage..do this do that you die go to hell. i stand on Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. that is the big problem to many follow the preacher instead of the Holy Spirit . they soon become religious robots in fact i see it in every type denomination. that includes the non denom . in fact there are a few religious robots in here... i have been Redeemed by the Blood of the lamb... thus if i want to believe in the conviction of the Holy Spirit i will. i can be FREE at the same time...

 

[ezra]

Hebrews 12 The Discipline of God

3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[a]
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
CHASTENING; CHASTISEMENT
In the New Testament the Greek paideia is used with a variety similar to its corresponding Hebrew in the Old Testament. Examples of the fundamental idea, namely, that of "training," are found in such passages as Acts 7:22; 22:3, where Moses and Paul are said to have been "instructed," and 2 Tim 3:16, where Scripture is said to be "profitable .... for instruction" (compare 1 Tim 1:20; 2 Tim 2:25; Tit 2:12; Rom 2:20). A similar, but not identical, thought, is found in Eph 6:4: "Nurture them in the chastening and admonition of the Lord." But when paideia is described as bringing pain, the mystery of suffering, which in the Old Testament is most fully treated in the Book of Job, at last finds its explanation. The child of God realizes that he cannot be beneath God's wrath, and hence, that the chastening which he endures is not destructive, but corrective (1 Cor 10:13; 11:32; 2 Cor 6:9; Rev 3:19). In Heb 12:5-11, such consolation is afforded, not, as in the above passages, by incidental allusions, but by a full argument upon the basis of Prov 3:11 f, an Old Testament text that has depth and richness that can be understood and appropriated only by those who through Christ have learned to recognize the Omnipotent Ruler of heaven and earth, as their loving and considerate Father. On the basis of this passage, a distinction is often drawn between punishment and chastisement; the former, as an act of justice, revealing wrath, and the latter, as an act of mercy, love. Since to them that are in Christ Jesus, there is no condemnation (Rom 8:1) they can suffer no punishment, but only chastisement. Where there is guilt, there is punishment; but where guilt has been removed, there can be no punishment. There being no degrees of justification, no one can be forgiven in part, with a partial guilt still set to his account for which he must yet give a reckoning, either here or hereafter. If, then, all the righteousness of Christ belongs to him, and no sin whatever remains to be forgiven, either in whole or in part, all life's sorrows are remedial agencies against danger and to train for the kingdom of heaven.

H. E. Jacobs [ this is all done through the Holy Spirit ] :amen

 

[Deborah13]

that is not what i said... my point is i know the truth from studying the word. over the years i have sat under many ministers.. some have preached bondage..do this do that you die go to hell. i stand on Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. that is the big problem to many follow the preacher instead of the Holy Spirit . they soon become religious robots in fact i see it in every type denomination. that includes the non denom . in fact there are a few religious robots in here... i have been Redeemed by the Blood of the lamb... thus if i want to believe in the conviction of the Holy Spirit i will. i can be FREE at the same time...

I'm sure you can and are, but not everyone is as blessed as you.

 

[ezra]

I'm sure you can and are, but not everyone is as blessed as you.

i am only blessed because i am in HIM.. same as you...

 

[Mitspa]

Hebrews 12 The Discipline of God

3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[a]
7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
CHASTENING; CHASTISEMENT
In the New Testament the Greek paideia is used with a variety similar to its corresponding Hebrew in the Old Testament. Examples of the fundamental idea, namely, that of "training," are found in such passages as Acts 7:22; 22:3, where Moses and Paul are said to have been "instructed," and 2 Tim 3:16, where Scripture is said to be "profitable .... for instruction" (compare 1 Tim 1:20; 2 Tim 2:25; Tit 2:12; Rom 2:20). A similar, but not identical, thought, is found in Eph 6:4: "Nurture them in the chastening and admonition of the Lord." But when paideia is described as bringing pain, the mystery of suffering, which in the Old Testament is most fully treated in the Book of Job, at last finds its explanation. The child of God realizes that he cannot be beneath God's wrath, and hence, that the chastening which he endures is not destructive, but corrective (1 Cor 10:13; 11:32; 2 Cor 6:9; Rev 3:19). In Heb 12:5-11, such consolation is afforded, not, as in the above passages, by incidental allusions, but by a full argument upon the basis of Prov 3:11 f, an Old Testament text that has depth and richness that can be understood and appropriated only by those who through Christ have learned to recognize the Omnipotent Ruler of heaven and earth, as their loving and considerate Father. On the basis of this passage, a distinction is often drawn between punishment and chastisement; the former, as an act of justice, revealing wrath, and the latter, as an act of mercy, love. Since to them that are in Christ Jesus, there is no condemnation (Rom 8:1) they can suffer no punishment, but only chastisement. Where there is guilt, there is punishment; but where guilt has been removed, there can be no punishment. There being no degrees of justification, no one can be forgiven in part, with a partial guilt still set to his account for which he must yet give a reckoning, either here or hereafter. If, then, all the righteousness of Christ belongs to him, and no sin whatever remains to be forgiven, either in whole or in part, all life's sorrows are remedial agencies against danger and to train for the kingdom of heaven.

H. E. Jacobs [ this is all done through the Holy Spirit ] :amen

The issue of correction has not been in debate, the issue of the tread is the Holy Spirit and conviction according to clear scripture. I doubt anyone who believes this doctrine, understands correction as they should, anyway? Now I have never heard of H. E. Jacobs but if he is teaching that the Holy Spirit is testifies against the Blood, he is a teaching false doctrine.

I have been corrected and I am sure God is able to correct me futher when He sees the need, but He will not and has not given me a "spirit of bondage again to fear" but the Spirit that sheds Gods love abroad in my heart and cries Abba Father.

It is the grace of God, that "teaches" us to deny ungodliness.

Look up the word it is the same as "chastisement"

 

[Mitspa]

Let me make this clear, if someone is teaching that the Holy Spirit is following you around and showing you all your mistakes and "sins", that is not the Holy Spirit who is called the Comforter and our legal advocate with the Father. But that is the spirit of the accuser of the brethern.

NO WHERE in scripture does it say the Holy Spirit convicts a "believer" of sin. But does say over and over that the Holy Spirit witnesses that our sins and lawless deeds are remembered no more. Look to the Word Of God and do not trust mans religious traditions.

 

[gr8grace]

The issue of correction has not been in debate, the issue of the tread is the Holy Spirit and conviction according to clear scripture. I doubt anyone who believes this doctrine, understands correction as they should, anyway? Now I have never heard of H. E. Jacobs but if he is teaching that the Holy Spirit is testifies against the Blood, he is a teaching false doctrine.

I have been corrected and I am sure God is able to correct me futher when He sees the need, but He will not and has not given me a "spirit of bondage again to fear" but the Spirit that sheds Gods love abroad in my heart and cries Abba Father.

It is the grace of God, that "teaches" us to deny ungodliness.

Look up the word it is the same as "chastisement"

Hi Mitspa,

I just wanted to chime in a bit. I think that we are into Semantics now. I can see what Ezra is saying and I can see what you are saying and you 2 are not far from each other.

Seeing perfect righteousness from the Spirit we have, Gives us Great notice to the unrighteousness in our Sin nature. I do not believe the Holy spirit is poking His finger in our chests, But seeing the perfect righteousness that he possess gives great notice to us of our imperfections and sins. He enables us to discern good and evil. Heb 5:14

I would not Go as far as calling it a false doctrine...The Spirit helps us discern and enables us.And that is what I see Ezra trying to communicate.

 

[Mitspa]

Hi Mitspa,

I just wanted to chime in a bit. I think that we are into Semantics now. I can see what Ezra is saying and I can see what you are saying and you 2 are not far from each other.

Seeing perfect righteousness from the Spirit we have, Gives us Great notice to the unrighteousness in our Sin nature. I do not believe the Holy spirit is poking His finger in our chests, But seeing the perfect righteousness that he possess gives great notice to us of our imperfections and sins. He enables us to discern good and evil. Heb 5:14

I would not Go as far as calling it a false doctrine...The Spirit helps us discern and enables us.And that is what I see Ezra trying to communicate.

I hear your point, but ezra and I have been in this debate for what seems like months now. It seems whenever we find a point of agreement in truth, tradition is thrown on top of that to cover up the importance of what is being revealed on this thread. The Holy Spirit works according to scripture, now what has been taught in many churches for many years is in fact false doctrine. To decern between the Holy Spirit and the "accuser" (satan) is a matter of life and death, it is not a small issue nor a matter of "semantics" I have made clear biblical points throughout this thread, is such a way that no direct challenge can be made to what I have posted. So if any need "semantics" it is only to keep alive a doctrine that cannot be proved with evident scripture.

 

[ezra]

It seems whenever we find a point of agreement in truth, tradition is thrown on top of that to cover up the importance of what is being revealed on this thread.

you mean your tradition ya know chastisement and conviction goes together..

 

[ezra]

Hi Mitspa,

I just wanted to chime in a bit. I think that we are into Semantics now. I can see what Ezra is saying and I can see what you are saying and you 2 are not far from each other.

Seeing perfect righteousness from the Spirit we have, Gives us Great notice to the unrighteousness in our Sin nature. I do not believe the Holy spirit is poking His finger in our chests, But seeing the perfect righteousness that he possess gives great notice to us of our imperfections and sins. He enables us to discern good and evil. Heb 5:14

I would not Go as far as calling it a false doctrine...The Spirit helps us discern and enables us.And that is what I see Ezra trying to communicate.

yup that pretty much is my point.......

 

[Mitspa]

you mean your tradition ya know chastisement and conviction goes together..

I doubt that if one does not know the difference between the Holy Spirit and the "accuser" that much real correction is taking place? Probably just more religious bondage and another trip around the same mountain of mans shame.

What I am teaching is for those who have seen this circle of religious nonsense and these falses yokes of "accusing" spirits, and want to be free from such bondage.

I am teaching the gospel, not mans religion or tradition. My point in this thread was to show how "unbiblical" this doctrine is, how there is NO SCRIPTURE to back up such a teaching.

And that the very name of satan means "accuser" which is the spirit that many have been put under by this false teaching.

I would also add, that any "man of God" would understand the reason this issue is so important, and would welcome an honest discussion that might help others see the truth.

 

[ezra]

show how "unbiblical" this doctrine is, how there is NO SCRIPTURE to back up such a teaching.

your right because you do not want to see. God works in our life through the Holy Spirit. which Jesus left us when he went to his Father.. in most cases chastisement --correction comes after we have failed to listen to the Holy Spirit.. the spirit tells us wrong we sinned we fell short. it is not judgement nor is it poking in the chest. it is a still small voice that speaks to our heart.. failure to listen will result in chastisement i heard another minister say it like this. a father son/ mother/daughter talk. if we keep refusing. then God can take us out of this world.

 

[Mitspa]

your right because you do not want to see. God works in our life through the Holy Spirit. which Jesus left us when he went to his Father.. in most cases chastisement --correction comes after we have failed to listen to the Holy Spirit.. the spirit tells us wrong we sinned we fell short. it is not judgement nor is it poking in the chest. it is a still small voice that speaks to our heart.. failure to listen will result in chastisement i heard another minister say it like this. a father son/ mother/daughter talk. if we keep refusing. then God can take us out of this world.

Yes guilt and fear! How far are some from the Truth of the gospel?

I think I will let religion have the spirit of bondage again to fear. I will walk with the One who cries Abba Father. I will trust in the Blood of Christ and any spirit that testifies against His Blood , I will reject in His Name
I will walk in righteousness, not my own but His. I will be forever justified and blessed, "for blessed is the man in whom the Lord WILL NOT impute sin"

I will not sin, for In Him I cannot sin, for he who sins has never seen Him nor known Him.

In Him I have no sin, and as He is so am I, in this world.

You have alot to learn ezra, I hope tradition has not taking from you the ability to be as a fool?

 

[ezra]

ou have alot to learn ezra, I hope tradition has not taking from you the ability to be as a fool?

it sounds to me like you have already learned it all.. named that song leaped building in a single bound... i hope your tradition does not do permanent blinding to you. you refused to post on chastisement..i broke it down so you could see where/what i was coming from.. but your blindness keeps you from seeing..

 

[Mitspa]

it sounds to me like you have already learned it all.. named that song leaped building in a single bound... i hope your tradition does not do permanent blinding to you. you refused to post on chastisement..i broke it down so you could see where/what i was coming from.. but your blindness keeps you from seeing..

Like I said if one cannot understand the difference between the Holy Spirit and His work and witness of righteousness, from the "accusing spirit" satan, and his work of guilt shame and fear, I doubt much "real" biblical correction is taking place?
More like another trip around the same religious mountain of mans shame.

 

[JCitoL]

Joh 16:8

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9

Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

the Holy Spirit is convicting 3 different groups 1. the "world" of sin, 2. You "believers" of righteousness 3. satan of "judgement"

Now find me one scripture in All the NEW Testament where the Holy Spirit brings the "believers" sin to remembrance? NO! what you will find is everytime the Holy Spirit and His work is mentioned that it says "there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more! Check it out!

the "world" in this passage is the "kingdom"(system) of spiritual/religious iniquity, its believers do not believe on the true Lord God, but on: satan, idols, iniquities, etc., while the Holy Spirit Itself is the remote/distant operation of God and Jesus especially in the place(s) where They are not physically (there), quoad satan, it is the very appearance of the "darkness" and an inanimate spirit which is the mistake of (the) nature and must be removed and locked until the end of the eternity

Blessings

 

[ezra]

Like I said if one cannot understand the difference between the Holy Spirit and His work and witness of righteousness, from the "accusing spirit" satan, and his work of guilt shame and fear, I doubt much "real" biblical correction is taking place?
More like another trip around the same religious mountain of mans shame.

i really do not like getting this way.. but you come off sounding tinkling brass ..you have the ATTITUDE YOUR THE only one who knows the Bible.. i tried reaching out with explanation..each time i used a different approach .but to no avail your holier than thou attitude comes out.

 

[Mitspa]

i really do not like getting this way.. but you come off sounding tinkling brass ..you have the ATTITUDE YOUR THE only one who knows the Bible.. i tried reaching out with explanation..each time i used a different approach .but to no avail your holier than thou attitude comes out.

Yes, name-calling and insults? I know what the scriptures clearly say and what they do not say.
The Holy Spirit does not "accuse" the believer of sin, but agrees with the Blood , it is not a spirit of bondage unto fear but He sheds Gods love abroad in the heart of the believer, and cries Abba Father. He witnesses that our sins and lawless deeds are remembered no more.
The spirit that accuses the children of God, is satan.

These things are clear and evident in scripture and the doctrine that the Holy Spirit convicts a "believer" of sin, CANNOT BE FOUND! Therefore the doctrine is false, and those who teach this doctrine are in great error.

"Accuse" me if you like? maybe you should judge yourself ?