HOLY SPIRIT convicts of what?

[eddif]

There is now therefore no condlemnation for those who ..

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

There is no condemnation because is we confess our sins....

I John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I do not want to act as if I have it all together.

We have no condemnation because we confess there are sins, and go on to receive forgiveness through the shed blood of Christ and the Word of God. John the Baptist told of sins and had people repent and believe on the one who came after him. No denial of sins, but looking for a solution for sins. Gods judgement of sins exists, but there is a way to be forgiven of sins.

Satan does not discuss a plan for the forgiveness of sins (from the garden he says you will not die). Satan does not offer eternal life, but (fall down and worship me and I will give you things in the earthly plain of existence). Satan does condemn folks for having done wrong actions, but does not discuss the Gospel plan of belief in Jesus Christ and eternal life). Satan just wants to get your eyes off the Word of God and onto the things he stresses.


I do not go into shock at sin. The ruler of this world has been judged. I may have to confess a sin, but forgiveness is possible (I do have to confess the sin).

Satan is the father of the lies we are told. God is the source of truth.

The Gospel is a good thing. It tells how to deal with sin. The Law does a good job of telling what sin is, but the law does not provide eternal life. Jesus is the source of eternal life. I was saved. Sinner you can be saved today. Listen for the Word of God become flesh ---Jesus (the Jewish Jesus). Jew, Gentile, bond, free, male, female---Repent, accept Jesus, be empowered by the Holy Spirit.

eddif

 

[eddif]

" I do not want to act as if I have it all together. "

I needed that statement. The next statement needs a little clarity.

"I do not go into shock at sin. The ruler of this world has been judged. I may have to confess a sin, but forgiveness is possible (I do have to confess the sin)."

It does grieve me about sin. Condemnation is taken care of by belief in Jesus.


eddif

 

[ezra]

So I have made clear and evident points, that cannot be challenged. The scriptures stand against these false teachings of religious tradition.

I will not attempt to find common ground any longer with you ezra, on this issue. I see no desire on your part to search the scriptures in a way that promotes the truth of this subject. I will therefore treat your post with the attitude they deserve.



The spirit that accuses is satan, all those who teach this false doctrine are in conflict with the truth and harm those who would hear and yield to their doctrines.

i have searched the scriptures i have have found agreement with you in certain areas... but since you can,t get me to agree with you %100 ..you refuse to have any thing else to do with my posting... a church sign read if everybody in this church was just like me what kind of church would this be. you are the one playing the role of the accuser of the brethern. those that teach false doctrine will not make it to heaven.... i hope your jaw does not fall off when you get to heaven and see the ones that made it. that teach conviction of the spirit when we sin.....because i know hundreds even thousands....:shocked!

 

[Mitspa]

i have searched the scriptures i have have found agreement with you in certain areas... but since you can,t get me to agree with you %100 ..you refuse to have any thing else to do with my posting... a church sign read if everybody in this church was just like me what kind of church would this be. you are the one playing the role of the accuser of the brethern. those that teach false doctrine will not make it to heaven.... i hope your jaw does not fall off when you get to heaven and see the ones that made it. that teach conviction of the spirit when we sin.....because i know hundreds even thousands....:shocked!

I guess a part of the conversation is what is sin? is it a transgression of the laws of faith and love, and the Spirit.

Or is it the 10 commanments and other parts of the OLD covenant, like being cursed if you dont tithe according to Mal.

Or is wearing make-up, etc.. how bout drinking wine?

Can you not see that this doctrine promotes legalism and brings Gods people into religious bondage, that Christ died to set them free from.

The spirit that accuses is satan, can you not see the danger of teaching such a doctrine, when there is NO biblical evidence of that doctrine?

 

[Mitspa]

There is now therefore no condlemnation for those who ..

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

There is no condemnation because is we confess our sins....

I John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I do not want to act as if I have it all together.

We have no condemnation because we confess there are sins, and go on to receive forgiveness through the shed blood of Christ and the Word of God. John the Baptist told of sins and had people repent and believe on the one who came after him. No denial of sins, but looking for a solution for sins. Gods judgement of sins exists, but there is a way to be forgiven of sins.

Satan does not discuss a plan for the forgiveness of sins (from the garden he says you will not die). Satan does not offer eternal life, but (fall down and worship me and I will give you things in the earthly plain of existence). Satan does condemn folks for having done wrong actions, but does not discuss the Gospel plan of belief in Jesus Christ and eternal life). Satan just wants to get your eyes off the Word of God and onto the things he stresses.


I do not go into shock at sin. The ruler of this world has been judged. I may have to confess a sin, but forgiveness is possible (I do have to confess the sin).

Satan is the father of the lies we are told. God is the source of truth.

The Gospel is a good thing. It tells how to deal with sin. The Law does a good job of telling what sin is, but the law does not provide eternal life. Jesus is the source of eternal life. I was saved. Sinner you can be saved today. Listen for the Word of God become flesh ---Jesus (the Jewish Jesus). Jew, Gentile, bond, free, male, female---Repent, accept Jesus, be empowered by the Holy Spirit.

eddif

No where does Paul teach that one must confess a sin to be forgiven. He teach that we are justified freely by grace and that nothing can seperate us from the love of God.

1 John 1:9 Is a scripture given to baby christians to get them to the truth of 1 John 3 IN HIM HAVE NO SIN, CANNOT SIN.

John wrote to three groups , children, young men and fathers.

It seems we now have the children trying to teach things they do not understand, and so full of religious pride that have no ability to hear the clear and evident truth of scripture?

 

[ezra]

I guess a part of the conversation is what is sin? is it a transgression of the laws of faith and love, and the Spirit.

Or is it the 10 commanments and other parts of the OLD covenant, like being cursed if you dont tithe according to Mal.

Or is wearing make-up, etc.. how bout drinking wine?

Can you not see that this doctrine promotes legalism and brings Gods people into religious bondage, that Christ died to set them free from.

The spirit that accuses is satan, can you not see the danger of teaching such a doctrine, when there is NO biblical evidence of that doctrine?

sin is missing thye mark... to him that knows to do good and don,t is sin........... you can list a full category of sins. sin is sin no matter what sin of omission and commission ..

Can you not see that this doctrine promotes legalism and brings Gods people into religious bondage,

I AM JUST AS FREE AS YOU ARE.JUST AS SAVED AS YOU ARE.. conviction of sin by the spirit only reminds you to get back on track. the spirit has many agencies it works through... so plz don,t try to sell me the ye old religious bondage sales pitch...

when there is NO biblical evidence of that doctrine?

well then praise the Lord ..you can start your own church.

 

[WIP]

Let's focus on the topic and not each other, please.

 

[Mitspa]

No one wants to walk in agreement with someone who follows them around and points out all their faults. This actually works against the truth of the gospel, justified freely by His Grace.
The "flesh" will always have the element of sin, this is why we are told to "reckon" ourselves dead to sin and the flesh. What is going on by this false doctrine, is satan is pointing out the flesh in the minds of the believer who have fallen prey to this false doctrine. These people walk around in a condition of guilt, thinking God is looking to judge them according to their flesh. They feel judged, therefore they look to judge and condemn others. The gospel declares that the flesh is nothing, it cannot justify nor can it condemn the believer. What is true is true in spirit. "In spirit" we have no sin and cannot sin. This is the testimony of Holy Spirit according to scripture.

It is clear and evident.

Now I am willing to go into the correction of God, and search out what the scriptures say, but this doctrine of the Holy Spirit convicting the" believer" of sin, cannot be found in scripture.

 

[gr8grace]

No one wants to walk in agreement with someone who follows them around and points out all their faults. This actually works against the truth of the gospel, justified freely by His Grace.
The "flesh" will always have the element of sin, this is why we are told to "reckon" ourselves dead to sin and the flesh. What is going on by this false doctrine, is satan is pointing out the flesh in the minds of the believer who have fallen prey to this false doctrine. These people walk around in a condition of guilt, thinking God is looking to judge them according to their flesh. They feel judged, therefore they look to judge and condemn others. The gospel declares that the flesh is nothing, it cannot justify nor can it condemn the believer. What is true is true in spirit. "In spirit" we have no sin and cannot sin. This is the testimony of Holy Spirit according to scripture.

It is clear and evident.

Now I am willing to go into the correction of God, and search out what the scriptures say, but this doctrine of the Holy Spirit convicting the" believer" of sin, cannot be found in scripture.

I do agree with you Mitspa, that the Holy Spirit does not CONVICT believers of sin. He CONVICTS unbelievers of their unbelief. He Has Judged Satan. And He restores the believer to righteousness.(Christs righteousness) Jesus Christ was convicted of all Sin, so God has a propitiated mind to ALL sin...its all been paid for. He does not require us to pay for ONE personal sin. John 16:9 is the ONLY requirement.

IMO reformed theology has had a huge part in the way we think and operate today. We all have had some degree of The "T" in tulip preached to us.(total inability)

And the truth of the matter is that we are responsible agents and have had a conscience given to us by God.

Since sin is paid for, a believer needs to be CONVINCED of His sin not CONVICTED. And a believers conscience convinces him of Sin because the Spirit in Him is perfectly righteous.
John 8:9
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

1 Cor 10:29 Conscience, I say, not your own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience?

2 Tim 1:3 I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;

1 Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made it shipwreck: (notice that he put his CONSCIENCE away, so he was no longer convinced of his sin)

His Word provides the foundation for the believers conscience.

 

[Mitspa]

I do agree with you Mitspa, that the Holy Spirit does not CONVICT believers of sin. He CONVICTS unbelievers of their unbelief. He Has Judged Satan. And He restores the believer to righteousness.(Christs righteousness) Jesus Christ was convicted of all Sin, so God has a propitiated mind to ALL sin...its all been paid for. He does not require us to pay for ONE personal sin. John 16:9 is the ONLY requirement.

IMO reformed theology has had a huge part in the way we think and operate today. We all have had some degree of The "T" in tulip preached to us.(total inability)

And the truth of the matter is that we are responsible agents and have had a conscience given to us by God.

Since sin is paid for, a believer needs to be CONVINCED of His sin not CONVICTED. And a believers conscience convinces him of Sin because the Spirit in Him is perfectly righteous.
John 8:9
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.

1 Cor 10:29 Conscience, I say, not your own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience?

2 Tim 1:3 I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;

1 Tim 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made it shipwreck: (notice that he put his CONSCIENCE away, so he was no longer convinced of his sin)

His Word provides the foundation for the believers conscience.

Here we have gotten much closer to the truth I hoped this thread would explore. One cannot relate the conviction of sin that brings a believer to Christ, with the the witness we have as "believers". For the law and its glory was to make or show all men as sinners and to bring all men to Christ that they may be "justified" by faith in Him. The Holy Spirit testifies to this justified "righteous" condition as we walk in faith.

The conscience of a "believer" is not the same as those who were convicted by the Lord. They we not "born-again" justified believers.

I will admit that I do not understand it all, even about my own conscience. I have learned to always keep my conscience clear before the Lord, and the Word of God is the water that washes my conscience and also that which corrects and judges the thoughts and intentions of my heart. It is the Holy Spirit that keeps that inner witness of Gods Love for me even when I have failed to measure up to the standard of Christ and His Glory.

In short it is the Holy Spirit that lifts us into the Divine Nature and to who we are IN CHRIST. He does not tear us down and bring us into a state of fear and bondage as many now teach.
These doctrines are false and cause great harm to Gods people, and cannot be shown in the scriptures in any clear way.
The spirit that "accuses" is satan, his name means "accuser"

 

[ezra]

In short it is the Holy Spirit that lifts us into the Divine Nature and to who we are IN CHRIST. He does not tear us down and bring us into a state of fear and bondage as many now teach.
These doctrines are false and cause great harm to Gods people, and cannot be shown in the scriptures in any clear way.
The spirit that "accuses" is satan, his name means "accuser"

naturally you show me where it brings into bondage...... in fact you can,t the spirit gives life.. the spirit is also the teacher.. one of the jobs of a teacher is pointing out wrong. showing how to correct. reprove . conviction is not a judgement of being slammed for sin.. but correction

 

[Mitspa]

naturally you show me where it brings into bondage...... in fact you can,t the spirit gives life.. the spirit is also the teacher.. one of the jobs of a teacher is pointing out wrong. showing how to correct. reprove . conviction is not a judgement of being slammed for sin.. but correction

Well anyone who has spent anytime in the churches who teach this doctrine can see the bondage that is laid upon these poor souls. Now I accept that the Holy Spirit is the teacher and He will never teach contrary to the Blood of Christ nor the truth of the gospel. For it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth.

He has not given us the spirit of bondage again to fear.
That is exactly what I see , a spirit of bondage again to fear.
I have spent many years in these churches, I have seen the fruit of these false doctrines.

The Holy Spirit teaches us who we are in Christ, not the shame of our flesh.

I am willing to accept a discussion about how the Holy Spirit brings us into truth. There is much I could learn from others and how the Holy Spirit has worked in them.

I have my own testimony of being corrected and shown truth that brought me into higher places in Christ. But never has the Holy Spirit convicted me of sin, but of righteousness and who I am in Christ.

Now maybe some do not believe they are sinners in the flesh? They may think they have their own righteousness by law?
I have heard of the Lord showing such people their sinful condition, that they might come to grace. If God decided to show us all, all the sin in thought and deed none of us could stand. By grace we stand and accept the truth, but that truth is revealed to us in the condition of our righteous standing in the Lord.

"Blessed is the man in whom the Lord will not impute sin"

 

[ezra]

Well anyone who has spent anytime in the churches who teach this doctrine can see the bondage that is laid upon these poor souls. Now I accept that the Holy Spirit is the teacher and He will never teach contrary to the Blood of Christ nor the truth of the gospel. For it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth.

may be you was in bondage in a church.. i have not been, i am going explain this one last time.. teaching the conviction of the holy spirit to the saved is not bondage... just like seeing a speed limit sign of 55 and having the urge to drive 65 .the sign only reminds you to drive 55. the spirit reminds you of who you are in Christ and shows us we are wrong when we sin.. the spirit and the word work together. if i get under bondage it because i have allowed my self to be under bondage. i have the spirit in me and leading me. when i get out of hand allow the old man to rule--SIN . the spirit reminds me and gives me the power to over come. just because the bird builds the nest there. does not mean it has to stay there :amen or o me..............

I have my own testimony of being corrected and shown truth that brought me into higher places in Christ. But never has the Holy Spirit convicted me of sin, but of righteousness and who I am in Christ.

lol your scared to admit conviction

 

[Mitspa]

may be you was in bondage in a church.. i have not been, i am going explain this one last time.. teaching the conviction of the holy spirit to the saved is not bondage... just like seeing a speed limit sign of 55 and having the urge to drive 65 .the sign only reminds you to drive 55. the spirit reminds you of who you are in Christ and shows us we are wrong when we sin.. the spirit and the word work together. if i get under bondage it because i have allowed my self to be under bondage. i have the spirit in me and leading me. when i get out of hand allow the old man to rule--SIN . the spirit reminds me and gives me the power to over come. just because the bird builds the nest there. does not mean it has to stay there

Well you sound like you have at least been hearing part of what I have been sayin? But I see your still not willing to accept scripture as it is written.
Everybody knows the bondage that legalism brings, and the root of this false teaching comes from legalism.
Basically its those who teach the law in some part or portion and have the "accusing" spirit to back up their false doctrines.

Its all about religious control and keeping people loaded down with guilt and sin. For the strength of sin is the law.

The Holy Spirit does not bring bondage and fear nor does it testify against the Blood of Jesus by which the "believer" is sanctified forever.

The Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness, according to the clear and evident testimony of the scriptures.

 

[Deborah13]

I do agree with you Mitspa, that the Holy Spirit does not CONVICT believers of sin. He CONVICTS unbelievers of their unbelief. He Has Judged Satan. And He restores the believer to righteousness.(Christs righteousness) Jesus Christ was convicted of all Sin, so God has a propitiated mind to ALL sin...its all been paid for. He does not require us to pay for ONE personal sin. John 16:9 is the ONLY requirement.

Amen, Amen, Amen

 

[Deborah13]

naturally you show me where it brings into bondage...... in fact you can,t the spirit gives life.. the spirit is also the teacher.. one of the jobs of a teacher is pointing out wrong. showing how to correct. reprove . conviction is not a judgement of being slammed for sin.. but correction

If I gave my full testimony you would see just how much damage this false doctrine can do. It's the same one that teaches saved by grace, faith + works (law)
and it can kill, empty your soul, bleed your heart, and grieve your spirit so completely you wish you could just die. It's very real and satan uses it to his advantage every chance he gets. The world and the Church needs strong preachers standing up and telling the Truth of the Good News.

 

[ezra]

If I gave my full testimony you would see just how much damage this false doctrine can do. It's the same one that teaches saved by grace, faith + works (law)
and it can kill, empty your soul, bleed your heart, and grieve your spirit so completely you wish you could just die. It's very real and satan uses it to his advantage every chance he gets. The world and the Church needs strong preachers standing up and telling the Truth of the Good News.

i do not preach that way nor have i ever been a member of a church that has. conviction of the holy spirit..is not false doctrine your works follow salvation but your works do not get you to heaven.. if people would study read the bible instead of following man. they could be free............. what do you consider the truth?

 

[ezra]

Well you sound like you have at least been hearing part of what I have been sayin? But I see your still not willing to accept scripture as it is written.
Everybody knows the bondage that legalism brings, and the root of this false teaching comes from legalism.
Basically its those who teach the law in some part or portion and have the "accusing" spirit to back up their false doctrines.

Its all about religious control and keeping people loaded down with guilt and sin. For the strength of sin is the law.

The Holy Spirit does not bring bondage and fear nor does it testify against the Blood of Jesus by which the "believer" is sanctified forever.

The Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness, according to the clear and evident testimony of the scriptures.

maybe for you. your really need chill out and relax {Well you sound like you have at least been hearing part of what I have been sayin? } NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i been saying this all along you just have to open your eyes and read.

 

[Mitspa]

maybe for you. your really need chill out and relax {Well you sound like you have at least been hearing part of what I have been sayin? } NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i been saying this all along you just have to open your eyes and read.

Well we do have a written record of our conversation on this issue, maybe I missed some of your post?

But besides that, I think I have made very clear points that are backed-up by clear and evident scripture, let every man heed the Word of God.
Holy Spirit- Comforter- Advocate with the Father
satan- accuser of the brethern.

 

[Mitspa]

If I gave my full testimony you would see just how much damage this false doctrine can do. It's the same one that teaches saved by grace, faith + works (law)
and it can kill, empty your soul, bleed your heart, and grieve your spirit so completely you wish you could just die. It's very real and satan uses it to his advantage every chance he gets. The world and the Church needs strong preachers standing up and telling the Truth of the Good News.

Yes Deb, the more this doctrine is preached the further Gods people are from walking with Him.
Look upon their faces, and the death in this doctrine is written upon their countenance.