HOLY SPIRIT convicts of what?

[Mitspa]

One, you didn't answer my question. Two, if the whole world is convicted, then it stands to reason the believer is convicted. Your reasoning is faulty.

We are told over and over that a "believer" is NOT a part of the world and should not consider ourselves as such.

The world, here is defined as those who do not "believe" this point is made thoughout scripture and is basic biblical understanding.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

We are told over and over that a "believer" is NOT a part of the world and should not consider ourselves as such.

We are told we are in the world, but not of the world.

John 17 NASB
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.

John 15
19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
​

We are not excluded from the world in these passages. We are told only that we owe nothing to the world because our faith is not in the world, but in Him. The Holy Spirit's work within us to guide us, lead us, keep us sealed for the day of redemption, cannot possibly be seen as anything other than conviction. The word elegcho which is translated "convict" in John is also translated "expose;" "rebuke;" "refute;" "reprove" in other New Testament passages. In fact, this passage ...

Hebrews 12
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;
5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM.
6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." [Emphasis added]
​

You are are wasting a lot of web space and irritating literally trillions of electrons for an argument over semantics, an argument in which you have profited no one, including yourself.

 

[Mitspa]

the holy spirit is not accusing us. HE has told us we sinned. get back on track

Well that is not according to scripture but religious tradition.
A man who walks in righteousness walks in a clear conscience before God. If he transgress his conscience it will be to him as sin. It is the abiding Holy Spirit that convicts him of his unbroken fellowship with God.

"Of righteousness because I go to the Father and you see me no more"

I have not said in any way that a man who is in Christ and is beholding His Glory, will live in sin.

What I am trying to show is the HIGHER MOTIVES of the gospel. Obedience that comes from our unbroken relationship with God. Based upon the true grace of God , not mans ability or shame.

Again I say all true obedience comes from who we are IN CHRIST, not from our flesh nor the shame that the flesh brings.

So if some cannot see this? It does not change the truth.

 

[Mitspa]

I heard the testimony of a man who quit smoking and this is how he did it.
He kept saying every time he'd light up. "I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus." He'd say with every puff he took. Pretty soon when he'd say it he would just put it out and then he just quit.
Reminding himself of the gift of righteousness he had been given and what that meant gave him strength, it empowered him to fight a strong addiction.

Yes Deb, it is abosolute truth that all godliness flows from the grace and goodness of God! No man has anything in the Kingdom of God unless God has first given it to him.

We see that religion has taught that obedience comes from this religious form of false humility. If we feel guilty enough we can please God, if we look hard enough at our flesh then we can change it? No! The flesh is crucified with Christ as we die with Him and we live with Him. The flesh is put to death by the spirit. There is no other biblical way!

As we behold Him we are changed from glory to glory, from faith to faith.

As you well know my sister "reckon" becomes the key to godliness.

What did Paul say? The mystery of godliness? God was manifest in the flesh, JUSTIFIED in the spirit...etc

Godliness is Jesus Christ, end of all debate!

 

[Mitspa]

Until he/she becomes a believer, he/she is still in the world. One becomes a Christian by being convicted of sin and the need of a Savior. You have irritated billions upon billions of electrons and wasted a lot of web page space to refute the irrefutable.

The fact that a "sinner" is convicted of their sin, is not in debate. So not sure what point you are trying to make? The believer is convicted of righteousness, I think this truth is worth a few electrons! lol

 

[ezra]

The believer is convicted of righteousness

what is he convicting us of when we sin?

 

[Mitspa]

what is he convicting us of when we sin?

Well a sinner is convicted of sin, a believer is convicted of righteousness. Do you think my position has changed?

Why do you think John writes that in Him we have no sin and cannot sin, for he who sins is of the devil.

He who sins has not seen or known Him?

There is a truth here ezra, that you are missing but you seem unable to hear what I am trying to explain?

 

[ezra]

Well a sinner is convicted of sin, a believer is convicted of righteousness. Do you think my position has changed?

Why do you think John writes that in Him we have no sin and cannot sin, for he who sins is of the devil.

He who sins has not seen or known Him?

There is a truth here ezra, that you are missing but you seem unable to hear what I am trying to explain?

i have not missed any thing... or any point Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and " the sin " which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
see i am willing to meet with you part way i understand the sin part it can not have domion over us. do you hear what i been trying to say? goes right back to my other post.. with you its no debate .thats fine but you simply refuse to see the spirit of GOD will convict us.. it keeps us in check.. have you ever sinned since salvation??????????

 

[Mitspa]

i have not missed any thing... or any point Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and " the sin " which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
see i am willing to meet with you part way i understand the sin part it can not have domion over us. do you hear what i been trying to say? goes right back to my other post.. with you its no debate .thats fine but you simply refuse to see the spirit of GOD will convict us.. it keeps us in check.. have you ever sinned since salvation??????????

Well now, I believe the Spirit of God works according to scripture and not mans tradition. I have spent great effort to explain that conviction of righteousness includes the correction of God into the Image Of Christ. Now the Holy Spirit does not testify against the Blood by which a believer is cleansed. But is that witness that brings us back into our righteous standing in Christ. All correction of the believer is to bring them out of the flesh and into the Spirit. The "flesh" is the agent of sin, the spirit is forever justified in Christ.

Now here again is the issue that these false doctrines fail to see. In every believer there is an agent of sin, called the "Flesh" and there is that which is sinless called spirit.

The Holy Spirit testifies to what is true in spirit, not to the flesh.
It is ones own conscience and the "accuser" that many are claiming is the "conviction" of the Holy Spirit.

 

[iLOVE]

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. James 4:4

 

[Deborah13]

Ok . Is the smoker in charge of his life or is Holy Spirit the one that convicted the man of sin against his body, how righteousness in Christ might be used to change his life, how satan has been judged by God and he can overcome through Jesus. This discussion agrees with the text IMHO.

Or​

We can find a way to make the man in charge of all the decisions so he can get the credit. With the man getting the credit we can still use the text, but it will be a little warped.​

To me this comment says the smoker (evidently a christian) is just flat in sin. Holy Spirit convicts him of sin, takes his mind to righteousness, and victory over satan and his promotion of smoke lust is overcome. Holy Spirit in charge and giving glory to Jesus.
++++++++++​

Right now there are four (?) of us speaking. Holy Spirit would wish for order, change, and knowledge to come forth. We should all know we are nothing without the fullness of God at work: Scripture, creation, desire of the Father, work of the Son, gifts of Holy Spirit etc.eddif​

No the Holy Spirit didn't convict him of smoking, he didn't think it was sin to smoke. He just wanted to quit because it's bad for the health and expensive.
He kept reminding himself of who he is in Christ and he was made righteous in Jesus. Just reminding himself of that gave him inner strenght and faith.
He look at Jesus rather then himself. Looking at himself said, failure. Looking at Jesus said victory. I wish I could remember where I saw or heard that testamony.​

 

[ezra]

The Holy Spirit testifies to what is true in spirit, not to the flesh.
It is ones own conscience and the "accuser" that many are claiming is the "conviction" of the Holy Spirit.

so what if we are WRONG???????

there is an agent of sin, called the "Flesh" and there is that which is sinless called spirit.

The Holy Spirit testifies to what is true in spirit, not to the flesh.
It is ones own conscience and the "accuser" that many are claiming is the "conviction" of the Holy Spirit

that is a dance around the question..i have to refer bck to james to prove a piint.. i dont have time as i have head out for work..................

 

[Mitspa]

No the Holy Spirit didn't convict him of smoking, he didn't think it was sin to smoke. He just wanted to quit because it's bad for the health and expensive.
He kept reminding himself of who he is in Christ and he was made righteous in Jesus. Just reminding himself of that gave him inner strenght and faith.
He look at Jesus rather then himself. Looking at himself said, failure. Looking at Jesus said victory. I wish I could remember where I saw or heard that testamony.[/LEFT]

Adam at the fall reacted to God, in fear, guilt and shame. I think many cannot relate to obedience to God based upon His goodness and love. We desire to live Godly and holy because we love God, not because we are shamed into obedience.

I think many have never learned to relate to God, based upon who we are in spirit, but are trying to please God by the flesh (Adamic nature)
The thought of serving God apart from shame and guilt has little room in many believers heart.
But this is the Gospel, and the Gospel is about the Glory of Christ not the weakness of man.

 

[Mitspa]

Re: being convicted by their own conscience..

Rom 7:10


And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11


For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12


Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13


Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14


For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15


For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16


If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17


Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18


For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19


For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20


Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I agree! here is the problem:biglol


Now the answer to the sin problem;
Rom 8:4


That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5


For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6


For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7


Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8


So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9


But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10


And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

AMEN

 

[Deborah13]

Adam at the fall reacted to God, in fear, guilt and shame. I think many cannot relate to obedience to God based upon His goodness and love. We desire to live Godly and holy because we love God, not because we are shamed into obedience.

I think many have never learned to relate to God, based upon who we are in spirit, but are trying to please God by the flesh (Adamic nature)
The thought of serving God apart from shame and guilt has little room in many believers heart.
But this is the Gospel, and the Gospel is about the Glory of Christ not the weakness of man.

Yes, I'd like to add that I know I only love Him because I know He loves me. It is because I know that He loves me that I respect Him and wish to please Him, to show that what He has done for me is appreciated and not gone to waste.
You know I think there are many who feel the same way that I do it's just they see some things differently in the details and maybe God wants it that way for some. I can only speak for myself but if someone attacks me with condemnation I will bow my neck. If they are gentle and kind I have no problem taking their correction. Threating me does not work either. Knowing that I have been made righteous in Him forever and ever without me doing anything to deserve it changed my life and my heart. I was saved but it was so hard, now it's so easy, no heavy yoke of condemnation to bear. Now if I think of the things I did in the past I can look at Jesus and just thank Him for sticking with me and tell the "accuser of the brothern" to get lost because he is just a "zero with the rim knocked off".

 

[ezra]

It is the abiding Holy Spirit that convicts him of his unbroken fellowship with God.

are you serious???????????????????

will live in sin.

no body said that what was said is they will sin..remember hebrews lay aside every weight and THE SIN.

Again I say all true obedience comes from who we are IN CHRIST, not from our flesh nor the shame that the flesh brings.

yup but what if you quench the spirit...have you? be honest...

 

[Mitspa]

are you serious??????????????????? no body said that what was said is they will sin..remember hebrews lay aside every weight and THE SIN.

yup but what if you quench the spirit...have you? be honest...

To "quench" has nothing to do with the issue of this thread.
To throw in random scripture, out of context shows or proves nothing. The work of the Holy Spirit is defined thoughout the New Testament, NEVER is it stated that the Holy Spirit convicts a "believer" of sin. But we see just the contrary, the Holy Spirit witnesses "there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more"

The spirit that "accuses" is call satan. This is the spirit that is working in most churches, and many are calling it the Holy Spirit! The scriptures are clear and cannot be challenged in an honest debate, thus we have what we see with those who disagree with my points on this thread. They will not and cannot prove that what they teach is in scripture, so they take scripture out of context and try to cover it in their tradition to make it say what they cannot prove by clear debate.

 

[Mitspa]

1Jn 5:7 (ISV)
For there are three witnesses-
1Jn 5:8


the Spirit, the water, and the blood-and these three are one.
1Jn 5:9

If we accept human testimony, God's testimony is greater, because it is the testimony of God and because he has testified about his Son.
1Jn 5:10

The person who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in himself. The person who does not believe God has made him a liar by not believing the testimony that God has given about his Son.
1Jn 5:11

This is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is found in his Son.
1Jn 5:8 (kjv)


And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
How can we be clean by His Blood and the Holy Spirit witness against the Blood?
NO! the Holy Spirit convicts the believer of righteousness!

Consider the error of those who put the Spirit against the Blood of Jesus? So according to their doctrine, one moment the Holy Spirit is bearing witness and agreement with the Blood and then the next moment He is not? No wonder the church is in such a mess, with teachers such as this.

 

[ezra]

To "quench" has nothing to do with the issue of this thread.
To throw in random scripture, out of context shows or proves nothing. The work of the Holy Spirit is defined thoughout the New Testament, NEVER is it stated that the Holy Spirit convicts a "believer" of sin. But we see just the contrary, the Holy Spirit witnesses "there sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more"

The spirit that "accuses" is call satan. This is the spirit that is working in most churches, and many are calling it the Holy Spirit! The scriptures are clear and cannot be challenged in an honest debate, thus we have what we see with those who disagree with my points on this thread. They will not and cannot prove that what they teach is in scripture, so they take scripture out of context and try to cover it in their tradition to make it say what they cannot prove by clear debate.

no one has taken any thing out of context..what we are looking at is interpretation of scriptures. you have come right out and tiptoed around conviction of sin for the christian .

No wonder the church is in such a mess, with teachers such as this.

this is your opinion you give satan more credit than you should... if HE convicts the world.. he will also convict us. other wise when you say sins remember no more. that is after salvation 1 john 1:9 is very clear. when we fail to omit sin in our life. the Spirit will put us in check..one could even say chastisement. just because some one does not line up with how you believe . does not make them wrong..

 

[Mitspa]

no one has taken any thing out of context..what we are looking at is interpretation of scriptures. you have come right out and tiptoed around conviction of sin for the christian . this is your opinion you give satan more credit than you should... if HE convicts the world.. he will also convict us. other wise when you say sins remember no more. that is after salvation 1 john 1:9 is very clear. when we fail to omit sin in our life. the Spirit will put us in check..one could even say chastisement. just because some one does not line up with how you believe . does not make them wrong..[/QUOTE
You may be part of the world, I am not nor are believers considered part of the world according to scripture. (remember scripture) by which all truth is judged.]
This is the clear and evident truth of scripture. NO WHERE does the scriptures teach that a "believer" is convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit.
I have in no way denied the correction of God nor the need to live a holy and seperated life unto God. But these things do not come from any ability of the flesh. Religion has its form of godliness but it is a false righteousness based upon mans ability. This is not accepted by God.

So I have made clear and evident points, that cannot be challenged. The scriptures stand against these false teachings of religious tradition.

I will not attempt to find common ground any longer with you ezra, on this issue. I see no desire on your part to search the scriptures in a way that promotes the truth of this subject. I will therefore treat your post with the attitude they deserve.



The spirit that accuses is satan, all those who teach this false doctrine are in conflict with the truth and harm those who would hear and yield to their doctrines.