Christ will not come back for His church until after the man of perdition is revealed in the middle of the last seven years. After that time the rapture will happen and during that same event God's wrath will begin on earth. Just as when in Noah's day as soon as the ark was shut it started raining and God's judgement came upon the people and in Lot's day as soon as Lot and family left Sodom then God's judgement came on the people. People that remain on earth will be hiding in caves and hoping that the rocks will cover them because of the things they see coming on the earth. Jesus doesn't set foot on earth at this time but He will at the end of the seven years.
How Close Do You Feel The End Times Are?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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I could patiently quote Scriptures which refer to the church being taken to be with the Lord Jesus; one aspect of His coming.
I could patiently quote Scriptures which refer to the aspect of the Lord's coming that is in power and glory.
It's not difficult. (I've done so before.)
But if some of you guys (I won't name you) have already decided you are going to mock at it anyway, why should I waste time?
Blessings.
I could patiently quote Scriptures which refer to the aspect of the Lord's coming that is in power and glory.
It's not difficult. (I've done so before.)
But if some of you guys (I won't name you) have already decided you are going to mock at it anyway, why should I waste time?
Blessings.
Not at all. I reckon it depends upon whether we're talking of meeting Jesus in the air, or Him coming at the last trump after the last enemy death is destroyed. Somehow John sees different ones before the throne at different times and they get there somehow in the exact prescription of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.
J
Joe Domingo
Guest
It's all one and the same. What Paul saw is what John saw.
He will descend, we will meet him in the air, gathered by Angels, then we will descend together, hence the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints. That is very clear for me.
Fair enough. I hope you are not disappointed that I believe we'll be in heaven a bit more then saying hello and goodbye.
J
Joe Domingo
Guest
Absolutely scriptural and correct! We never go to heaven...
Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
Christ returns to the earth. His Kingdom is here on the earth and rules the earth. The saints are given positions of rulership...
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
So are you saying that the rapture is at the end of the seven years? Then we would be going throught the last 3-1/2 years of tribulations which is God's wrath and we are not appoint to that.
Let me see how plainly I can put this...
THERE IS NO RAPTURE!
There is a place of safety, the church will flee to it.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Verse 25 shows the timeframe.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Just in case one thinks these are the Jews...
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
This is the church, not Judah. The church flees (flies) into it's place in the wilderness (desert) and is there for 3-1/2 years.
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This is what's going on in Israel after Satan is cast out of Heaven. After God protects a 1/3 of the Jews then Satan will turn his focus on the believers. We are the remnant of the woman's seed by adoption and therefore part of Abraham's seed.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Ahh i see....Jesus is going to come back "halfway" snatch those obedient little Christians who are expecting to be get a free pass from the tribulation of the last days and take them back to heaven to "hangout" for 7 years while fellow brothers in Christ are suffering through these terrible times. Sounds nice to "itchy" ears but it is not scriptural nor is it logical.
Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth. And by the way you quoted one of my favorite verses to support "soul sleep". Why would Jesus have to return to get his people if they are already in heaven when they die? We don't go to heaven when we die Eugene...we "sleep" as Paul said. Jesus specifically told his followers that he was going to come back and get them....we he hasn't returned yet so they ain't with him yet...where are they? RIP.
Pizzaguy
Member
Luke 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth. And by the way you quoted one of my favorite verses to support "soul sleep". Why would Jesus have to return to get his people if they are already in heaven when they die? We don't go to heaven when we die Eugene...we "sleep" as Paul said. Jesus specifically told his followers that he was going to come back and get them....we he hasn't returned yet so they ain't with him yet...where are they? RIP.
Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
So, He, Christ, was confused?
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Luke 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth. And by the way you quoted one of my favorite verses to support "soul sleep". Why would Jesus have to return to get his people if they are already in heaven when they die? We don't go to heaven when we die Eugene...we "sleep" as Paul said. Jesus specifically told his followers that he was going to come back and get them....we he hasn't returned yet so they ain't with him yet...where are they? RIP.
Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
So, He, Christ, was confused?
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So, Christ told the thief that very day he would be with Christ in Heaven. Then, more than three days and three nights later we see this statement...
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
So, did the thief go to Heaven more than three days and three nights earlier? Did He disqualify Christ as the firstborn?
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Can the scripture be broken?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
If it can, we are wasting our time.
So how do we resolve this?
When were the commas added? They are not in the original, they were added much, much later and according to the preferences of the translators. Try reading it this way...
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Christ was assuring the thief on that day that he would be with Him in paradise later on when He came into His Kingdom.
J
Joe Domingo
Guest
Paradise is the Watch of God. It is where you are guaranteed to rest after your body is deceased. For the dead neither hear nor speak. And Jesus said, Lazarus sleeps. Nothing like a peaceful undisturbed sleep. Now what do I mean by the Watch of God?
Many Bibles translated this word - phulake (G5438) as Prison. Found in 1 Peter 3:19 But I believe this is done because of Catholic doctrinal influence. Catholicism has this weird teaching, it's called Purgatory. See this link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm You can easily see how phulake can be massaged to mean Prison.
But look at Strong's definitions:
1) guard, watch
a) a watching, keeping watch
1) to keep watch
b) persons keeping watch, a guard, sentinels
c) of the place where captives are kept, a prison
d) of the time (of night) during which guard was kept, a watch i.e. a period of time during which part of the guard was on duty, and at the end of which others relieved them. As the earlier Greeks divided the night commonly into three parts, so, previous to the exile, the Israelites also had three watches in a night; subsequently, however, after they became subject to the Romans, they adopted the Roman custom of dividing the night into four watches
The emphasis is on the word WATCH. Of course prison guards watch prisoners. But God does not see his children as prisoners. Whether they will resurrect to live or judgment, they are all precious in his sight. Peter also said, he would that none should perish, Peter is speaking of the Lord's intentions for mankind. So at best the Lord Watches over our souls as they rest, until the time his Kingdom comes.
HTH
Many Bibles translated this word - phulake (G5438) as Prison. Found in 1 Peter 3:19 But I believe this is done because of Catholic doctrinal influence. Catholicism has this weird teaching, it's called Purgatory. See this link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm You can easily see how phulake can be massaged to mean Prison.
But look at Strong's definitions:
1) guard, watch
a) a watching, keeping watch
1) to keep watch
b) persons keeping watch, a guard, sentinels
c) of the place where captives are kept, a prison
d) of the time (of night) during which guard was kept, a watch i.e. a period of time during which part of the guard was on duty, and at the end of which others relieved them. As the earlier Greeks divided the night commonly into three parts, so, previous to the exile, the Israelites also had three watches in a night; subsequently, however, after they became subject to the Romans, they adopted the Roman custom of dividing the night into four watches
The emphasis is on the word WATCH. Of course prison guards watch prisoners. But God does not see his children as prisoners. Whether they will resurrect to live or judgment, they are all precious in his sight. Peter also said, he would that none should perish, Peter is speaking of the Lord's intentions for mankind. So at best the Lord Watches over our souls as they rest, until the time his Kingdom comes.
HTH
Paradise is the third Heaven where God's throne is...
2Co 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
HTH