How Close Do You Feel The End Times Are?

[Joe Domingo]

Paradise is the Watch of God. It is where you are guaranteed to rest after your body is deceased. For the dead neither hear nor speak. And Jesus said, Lazarus sleeps. Nothing like a peaceful undisturbed sleep. Now what do I mean by the Watch of God?

Many Bibles translated this word - phulake (G5438) as Prison. Found in 1 Peter 3:19 But I believe this is done because of Catholic doctrinal influence. Catholicism has this weird teaching, it's called Purgatory. See this link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm You can easily see how phulake can be massaged to mean Prison.


But look at Strong's definitions:
1) guard, watch
a) a watching, keeping watch
1) to keep watch
b) persons keeping watch, a guard, sentinels
c) of the place where captives are kept, a prison
d) of the time (of night) during which guard was kept, a watch i.e. a period of time during which part of the guard was on duty, and at the end of which others relieved them. As the earlier Greeks divided the night commonly into three parts, so, previous to the exile, the Israelites also had three watches in a night; subsequently, however, after they became subject to the Romans, they adopted the Roman custom of dividing the night into four watches

The emphasis is on the word WATCH. Of course prison guards watch prisoners. But God does not see his children as prisoners. Whether they will resurrect to live or judgment, they are all precious in his sight. Peter also said, he would that none should perish, Peter is speaking of the Lord's intentions for mankind. So at best the Lord Watches over our souls as they rest, until the time his Kingdom comes.

HTH

Paradise is the third Heaven where God's throne is...

2Co 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

HTH

Still sounds like the Watch to me bud! I think you've even helped me locate it. LOL

BTW take note that Paul sounds delusional, not that he was but that it was all dreamy to him. And that is what I would expect, since this is a plane you must enter in spirit or a sleep state. Remember Jesus said "no man has ascended into Heaven". So this place Paul speaks of is not where Jesus is sitting on his throne. It is a different place. I call it the Watch. Wink

HTH

 

[John 8:32]

Paradise is the Watch of God. It is where you are guaranteed to rest after your body is deceased. For the dead neither hear nor speak. And Jesus said, Lazarus sleeps. Nothing like a peaceful undisturbed sleep. Now what do I mean by the Watch of God?

Many Bibles translated this word - phulake (G5438) as Prison. Found in 1 Peter 3:19 But I believe this is done because of Catholic doctrinal influence. Catholicism has this weird teaching, it's called Purgatory. See this link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm You can easily see how phulake can be massaged to mean Prison.


But look at Strong's definitions:
1) guard, watch
a) a watching, keeping watch
1) to keep watch
b) persons keeping watch, a guard, sentinels
c) of the place where captives are kept, a prison
d) of the time (of night) during which guard was kept, a watch i.e. a period of time during which part of the guard was on duty, and at the end of which others relieved them. As the earlier Greeks divided the night commonly into three parts, so, previous to the exile, the Israelites also had three watches in a night; subsequently, however, after they became subject to the Romans, they adopted the Roman custom of dividing the night into four watches

The emphasis is on the word WATCH. Of course prison guards watch prisoners. But God does not see his children as prisoners. Whether they will resurrect to live or judgment, they are all precious in his sight. Peter also said, he would that none should perish, Peter is speaking of the Lord's intentions for mankind. So at best the Lord Watches over our souls as they rest, until the time his Kingdom comes.

HTH

Paradise is the third Heaven where God's throne is...

2Co 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

HTH

Still sounds like the Watch to me bud! I think you've even helped me locate it. LOL

BTW take note that Paul sounds delusional, not that he was but that it was all dreamy to him. And that since what I would expect, since this is a plane you must enter in spirit or a sleep state.

HTH

He plainly states that he could not tell if it were a vision or reality. Put other scriptures with it and it becomes clear it was a vision. Doesn't change the fact that Paul tells us here that Paradise is the third Heaven.

HTH

 

[Joe Domingo]

Paradise is the Watch of God. It is where you are guaranteed to rest after your body is deceased. For the dead neither hear nor speak. And Jesus said, Lazarus sleeps. Nothing like a peaceful undisturbed sleep. Now what do I mean by the Watch of God?

Many Bibles translated this word - phulake (G5438) as Prison. Found in 1 Peter 3:19 But I believe this is done because of Catholic doctrinal influence. Catholicism has this weird teaching, it's called Purgatory. See this link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm You can easily see how phulake can be massaged to mean Prison.


But look at Strong's definitions:
1) guard, watch
a) a watching, keeping watch
1) to keep watch
b) persons keeping watch, a guard, sentinels
c) of the place where captives are kept, a prison
d) of the time (of night) during which guard was kept, a watch i.e. a period of time during which part of the guard was on duty, and at the end of which others relieved them. As the earlier Greeks divided the night commonly into three parts, so, previous to the exile, the Israelites also had three watches in a night; subsequently, however, after they became subject to the Romans, they adopted the Roman custom of dividing the night into four watches

The emphasis is on the word WATCH. Of course prison guards watch prisoners. But God does not see his children as prisoners. Whether they will resurrect to live or judgment, they are all precious in his sight. Peter also said, he would that none should perish, Peter is speaking of the Lord's intentions for mankind. So at best the Lord Watches over our souls as they rest, until the time his Kingdom comes.

HTH

Paradise is the third Heaven where God's throne is...

2Co 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

HTH

Still sounds like the Watch to me bud! I think you've even helped me locate it. LOL

BTW take note that Paul sounds delusional, not that he was but that it was all dreamy to him. And that since what I would expect, since this is a plane you must enter in spirit or a sleep state.

HTH

He plainly states that he could not tell if it were a vision or reality. Put other scriptures with it and it becomes clear it was a vision. Doesn't change the fact that Paul tells us here that Paradise is the third Heaven.

HTH

Ok smarty pants call you give me directions to the third Heaven LOL

 

[John 8:32]

Still sounds like the Watch to me bud! I think you've even helped me locate it. LOL

BTW take note that Paul sounds delusional, not that he was but that it was all dreamy to him. And that since what I would expect, since this is a plane you must enter in spirit or a sleep state.

HTH

He plainly states that he could not tell if it were a vision or reality. Put other scriptures with it and it becomes clear it was a vision. Doesn't change the fact that Paul tells us here that Paradise is the third Heaven.

HTH

Ok smarty pants call you give me directions to the third Heaven LOL

Nope, never been there and neither has Google maps. LOL

 

[Grappler]

Absolutely scriptural and correct! We never go to heaven...

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth. And by the way you quoted one of my favorite verses to support "soul sleep". Why would Jesus have to return to get his people if they are already in heaven when they die? We don't go to heaven when we die Eugene...we "sleep" as Paul said. Jesus specifically told his followers that he was going to come back and get them....we he hasn't returned yet so they ain't with him yet...where are they? RIP.

Luke 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

So, He, Christ, was confused?

Comment deleted.

lol...I don't think Jesus was the one confused. You obviously don't understand Luke 23:43. Let us try this one shall we?...."Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." See the comma? My how it changes things when the comma is properly placed. Now why would the comma be there you might ask? Well for one if Jesus and the theif went to "paradise" that very day...then why did Jesus tell Mary a few days later that he had NOT ascended to the Father yet?? Is the place called "paradise" some place other than heaven? I think not...Jesus simply was telling the theif that you will be with me in paradise..in the future not that very day because Jesus never went to the Father until after he was resurrected.

 

[John 8:32]

Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth. And by the way you quoted one of my favorite verses to support "soul sleep". Why would Jesus have to return to get his people if they are already in heaven when they die? We don't go to heaven when we die Eugene...we "sleep" as Paul said. Jesus specifically told his followers that he was going to come back and get them....we he hasn't returned yet so they ain't with him yet...where are they? RIP.

Luke 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

So, He, Christ, was confused?

Comment deleted.

lol...I don't think Jesus was the one confused. You obviously don't understand Luke 23:43. Let us try this one shall we?...."Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." See the comma? My how it changes things when the comma is properly placed. Now why would the comma be there you might ask? Well for one if Jesus and the theif went to "paradise" that very day...then why did Jesus tell Mary a few days later that he had NOT ascended to the Father yet?? Is the place called "paradise" some place other than heaven? I think not...Jesus simply was telling the theif that you will be with me in paradise..in the future not that very day because Jesus never went to the Father until after he was resurrected.

Exactly!

 

[John 8:32]

Still sounds like the Watch to me bud! I think you've even helped me locate it. LOL

BTW take note that Paul sounds delusional, not that he was but that it was all dreamy to him. And that since what I would expect, since this is a plane you must enter in spirit or a sleep state.

HTH

He plainly states that he could not tell if it were a vision or reality. Put other scriptures with it and it becomes clear it was a vision. Doesn't change the fact that Paul tells us here that Paradise is the third Heaven.

HTH

Ok smarty pants call you give me directions to the third Heaven LOL

Nope, never been there and neither has Google maps. LOL

A little good hearted humor is pleasant, is it not?

 

[Joe Domingo]

Ok smarty pants call you give me directions to the third Heaven LOL

Nope, never been there and neither has Google maps. LOL

A little good hearted humor is pleasant, is it not?

Nods is pleasant

 

[Sinthesis]

Paradise and heaven are not the same place. If they were then Jesus would have had no need to prepare a place for us. Heaven is better than paradise.

 

[Eugene]

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father

A type of this first offering to God given in A.S. Copley's Study of John.

The type is found in Leviticus 23:10. "When ye come into the land which I give unto you and ye reap the harvest thereof; then ye shall bring a sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest unto the priest

Leviticus 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it . . .

Leviticus 23:14 and ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears until the self-same day that ye have brought an offering unto your God"

 

[John 8:32]

From the article: The Wave Sheaf Offering -- The Forgotten Holy Day? by Jack M. Lane

Part of the process of making peace through Messiah’s blood is demonstrated year after year in the Wave Sheaf offering.

The Mishnah, written a few centuries after the time of the first century church, describes how a messenger would go out and bind the standing stalks of grain into sheaves so that it would be easy to cut. The priest, followed by his entourage, would come to the field, sickle in hand, and ask, "Is the sun set?", to which the people would answer, "Yes!!" "Shall I reap?" "Reap!!" The priest then cut off a standing stalk of grain, then took it to be prepared for the offering the next morning.

In an article in the June 1975 Good News entitled "The Wavesheaf Ritual – Proof of Christ and the Bible," Lawson C. Briggs wrote, "In the time of Jesus the wavesheaf was offered on the Sunday during Passover week. This is clear since the priests – who were mostly Sadducees – were in charge of the Temple and all the Temple ceremony (Acts 4:1-6; 5:17). The timing and symbolism of this ceremony would have been overwhelming to those who knew the events of Jesus' death and resurrection.

"The wave sheaf had been chosen in advance, as Christ was. It was tied in a bundle, symbolizing His captivity. It was cut loose from the ground just at sunset – just the time at which Christ rose from the dead after three days and three nights in the tomb. The cutting of the grain symbolized Christ's actual resurrection" (emphasis mine).

Here’s a quote from another source, a Bible study tape by Herman Hoeh: "We might as well face it – that the resurrection occurred minutes following the close of the Sabbath – Saturday night, when the wave sheaf was cut. What we have is not the old saying that I used to have to use, that the wave sheaf represents the resurrected Christ – but it represents the resurrection!

"This is the prophesied resurrection that we have never seen in the ceremonies of the law, and was properly done in Jewish tradition (page 506-7 of the Mishnah). It was a rule that it should be reaped by night, at the very beginning minutes, so there would be no delay in preparing it, and then the next morning it was to be waved.

"The resurrection occurred when the wave sheaf was cut, [and the] ascension occurred when it was waved before the altar...” (Herman Hoeh, Pasadena Bible Study, June 9, 1978).

Messiah rose from the dead three days and three nights from the time He went into "the heart of the earth." It was the only sign that He was to give. The length of time in the grave was the proof of His being the Messiah! (Matthew 12:39-40) If Messiah was to come back to life on a Saturday evening, three days and three nights after His dead body was laid to rest, that means that, when He died in the afternoon of Passover Day, that day was a Wednesday!

Messiah went into the tomb "when even was come" (Matthew 27:57; Mark 15:42). Therefore, He came out of the tomb "when even was come" – three days and three nights later. It’s interesting to see that Leviticus 23, which outlines the holy days, the days which show us the plan of God, gives us this picture: right at the moment the priest cut the sheaf from the ground, that was the moment Yeshua Messiah rose from the dead, which gave Him a new identity – the first fully born Son of God, born from the dead.

The article in it's entirety is found at...

http://livingtheway.org/wave2.html

 

[Joe Domingo]

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father

A type of this first offering to God given in A.S. Copley's Study of John.

The type is found in Leviticus 23:10. "When ye come into the land which I give unto you and ye reap the harvest thereof; then ye shall bring a sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest unto the priest

Leviticus 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it . . .

Leviticus 23:14 and ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears until the self-same day that ye have brought an offering unto your God"

100% Exactamundo

1Corinthians 15:20

I wont quote it here - folks need to read it for themselves

 

[Joe Domingo]

Excellent John 8:32!

 

[Grappler]

Paradise and heaven are not the same place. If they were then Jesus would have had no need to prepare a place for us. Heaven is better than paradise.

lol...i would love to hear you explain that one.

 

[Eugene]

Paradise and heaven are not the same place. If they were then Jesus would have had no need to prepare a place for us. Heaven is better than paradise.

lol...i would love to hear you explain that one.

Do you consider John the Baptist to be in the Church? Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist. Though Paradise is now in heaven (2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise), can John the Baptist be in the bride of Christ? What I'm asking is if you think there is a difference of those in Paradise and Heaven, and why if you have scripture covering that. Thanks.

 

[Grappler]

Paradise and heaven are not the same place. If they were then Jesus would have had no need to prepare a place for us. Heaven is better than paradise.

lol...i would love to hear you explain that one.

Do you consider John the Baptist to be in the Church? Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist. Though Paradise is now in heaven (2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise), can John the Baptist be in the bride of Christ? What I'm asking is if you think there is a difference of those in Paradise and Heaven, and why if you have scripture covering that. Thanks.

Are you sinthesis?....anyways to answer you questions. Yes, the true "church". You said 'though Paradise is now in heaven'....what are you talking about? Then you asked if i thought there was a difference of those [sic] in Paradise and Heaven?....I really don't think there is a difference between paradise and heaven. Both words are used interchangably to refer to a place where we will spend eternity with God. It seems only people who are looking for a difference to support their preconceived beliefs will start trying to define paradise and heaven as two different places.

 

[Joe Domingo]

Paradise and heaven are not the same place. If they were then Jesus would have had no need to prepare a place for us. Heaven is better than paradise.

lol...i would love to hear you explain that one.

Do you consider John the Baptist to be in the Church? Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist. Though Paradise is now in heaven (2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise), can John the Baptist be in the bride of Christ? What I'm asking is if you think there is a difference of those in Paradise and Heaven, and why if you have scripture covering that. Thanks.

Are you sinthesis?....anyways to answer you questions. Yes, the true "church". You said 'though Paradise is now in heaven'....what are you talking about? Then you asked if i thought there was a difference of those [sic] in Paradise and Heaven?....I really don't think there is a difference between paradise and heaven. Both words are used interchangably to refer to a place where we will spend eternity with God. It seems only people who are looking for a difference to support their preconceived beliefs will start trying to define paradise and heaven as two different places.

BINGO.

Hence why my position is that once we die in the flesh, become disembodied souls, we go to the "watch" or "paradise", where we rest in peace till the coming of the Lord. We do not ascend to where Christ now is. Humans were not made for that, humans were made to exist on the Earth. Basically, from the old to the new testament - our Bible teaches us a few things about death... we are taught that we go to "sleep", we are taught that we neither hear nor speak, we are taught that Jesus can wake us at any time (think Moses and Elijah and Lazarus), we are taught that we indeed truly do "Rest in Peace" since we are in the "presence" of the Lord (think to be absent from the body), to be in the presence of the Lord does not mean we grow wings and fly in space like angels. If you put the thought process in the context of the previous points made - you should come up with a very logical path to understanding, like so ...

We die in the flesh, we cease physical mobility, our spirit rest in a dormant sleep, yet we are attentive to the Lord's voice, our souls guarded by the Lord, we are in a place of his choosing, we wait to be resurrected.

For the life of me, why this is not so easily understood by those who follow Christ is beyond my me.

Edit: "our souls guarded by the Lord" this counters purgatory.

Edit2: Lazarus being thirsty in hell is a Parable. Not to be taken literally.

Biblical references:
1 Kings 2:10-12
So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
John 11:11
This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep."
Psalm 115:17
The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence;
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
Mathew 17:3
And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
John 11:43
And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
1 Peter 3:19
in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
Luke 23:43
And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
John 3:13
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Newsflash - when Jesus said today, he meant it. Paradise - well, see 1 Peter 3:19 to find out where Jesus went that day.

 

[Grappler]

Do you consider John the Baptist to be in the Church? Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist. Though Paradise is now in heaven (2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise), can John the Baptist be in the bride of Christ? What I'm asking is if you think there is a difference of those in Paradise and Heaven, and why if you have scripture covering that. Thanks.

Are you sinthesis?....anyways to answer you questions. Yes, the true "church". You said 'though Paradise is now in heaven'....what are you talking about? Then you asked if i thought there was a difference of those [sic] in Paradise and Heaven?....I really don't think there is a difference between paradise and heaven. Both words are used interchangably to refer to a place where we will spend eternity with God. It seems only people who are looking for a difference to support their preconceived beliefs will start trying to define paradise and heaven as two different places.

BINGO.

Hence why my position is that once we die in the flesh, become disembodied souls, we go to the "watch" or "paradise", where we rest in peace till the coming of the Lord. We do not ascend to where Christ now is. Humans were not made for that, humans were made to exist on the Earth. Basically, from the old to the new testament - our Bible teaches us a few things about death... we are taught that we go to "sleep", we are taught that we neither hear nor speak, we are taught that Jesus can wake us at any time (think Moses and Elijah and Lazarus), we are taught that we indeed truly do "Rest in Peace" since we are in the "presence" of the Lord (think to be absent from the body), to be in the presence of the Lord does not mean we grow wings and fly in space like angels. If you put the thought process in the context of the previous points made - you should come up with a very logical path to understanding, like so ...

We die in the flesh, we cease physical mobility, our spirit rest in a dormant sleep, yet we are attentive to the Lord's voice, our souls guarded by the Lord, we are in a place of his choosing, we wait to be resurrected.

For the life of me, why this is not so easily understood by those who follow Christ is beyond my me.

Edit: "our souls guarded by the Lord" this counters purgatory.

Edit2: Lazarus being thirsty in hell is a Parable. Not to be taken literally.

Biblical references:
1 Kings 2:10-12
So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.
John 11:11
This He said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep."
Psalm 115:17
The dead do not praise the LORD, Nor do any who go down into silence;
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.
Mathew 17:3
And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
John 11:43
And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
1 Peter 3:19
in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
Luke 23:43
And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."
John 3:13
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

Newsflash - when Jesus said today, he meant it. Paradise - well, see 1 Peter 3:19 to find out where Jesus went that day.

I agree...well almost....i am a proponent of the misplaced comma by the KJV translators in Luke 23:43. I think Jesus was simply telling the theif that day that one day he will be in paradise. The "spirits" that Peter was referring to could be the fallen angelic beings that were imprisoned in Tartarus in 2 Peter 2:4....why would you think that they are human spirits?

 

[Joe Domingo]

[/QUOTE] I agree...well almost....i am a proponent of the misplaced comma by the KJV translators in Luke 23:43. I think Jesus was simply telling the theif that day that one day he will be in paradise. The "spirits" that Peter was referring to could be the fallen angelic beings that were imprisoned in Tartarus in 2 Peter 2:4....why would you think that they are human spirits?[/QUOTE]

Wew Thank God for a simple question with a simple answer.

Because the Gospel of Repentance was not sent for Angels. Show me anywhere in the entire Bible where a provision is made for an angel to repent ...

NO sir these are not angels. Why would Jesus preach to fallen Angels when the Word has made it clear that Hell was prepared for them? Matthew 25:41.

Hell, was NOT even prepared for Humans! Reason why I say also, no human will burn in it forever, we simply cannot endure it. It was not designed for us. We will be destroyed in it if we go there.

 

[Elijah674]

There is only one true Virgin Church. (some good saved people there, but they have abdominal false doctrines) What Christ is talking of is his church.
That one of Matt. 25.

--Elijah