How do you find heaven?

[ORwarriOR]

How can it be in regards to the flood only when he clearly says...

"And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done."

He says he will never curse the earth again because of man. Regardless of whether or not "as I have done" means he won't flood it, it still doesn't change the fact that he said "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood" If men deny the lord would that not be "because of man"?

I dunno I just don't like the idea of an apocalypse, it goes against what the lord has said, and it can't be explained. If something can't be explained with certainty I can't accept it; especially if the only explination is "God changed his mind" and if that's the case... Then who can be sure about anything coming in the future? Why would God change his mind all of a sudden, go against his own word, and then destroy everything?

 

[jasoncran]

because he never said the he wouldnt destroy men again, just not by the flood.

that is why i posted the verses in 2 peter. peter refers to the flood judgment and so did the lord himself.as he said in the last days will be like the days of noah. and also like the days of sodom and gommoroh

i dont like the idea of judgment either but i yeild my distate to what the bible says is gonna happen.
its the way the lord is, we dont pick what the lord is to be or do, only accept it.
i choose the later as if we repent we have nothing to fear nor loose only gain

i added that last verse so as remind all who read that will take their walk seriously( i need to) and witness, the lost need to know that the lord will judge and they need to repent.

 

[elijah23]

then kingdom of god, isnt just heaven, i must correct myself

if heaven is here, then what is hell or death like?

the lord reigns from heaven but he has come to the earth.

No, heaven is here. It is your state of mind after you repent of your sin, I believe:

[20] Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
[21] nor will they say, `Lo, here it is!' or `There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." Luke 17:20-21 RSV

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

If you are not in heaven, you are in hell.

 

[elijah23]

reconcile that with the verse quoted by elijah, the kingdom of god is indeed within us. but the world isn't under the lords direct rule, as he is allowing the time of the gentiles to continue for a season.

he allows satan to run things , if you doubt why did paul call satan the prince of the air, if he is bound at the cross and has no power to manipulate things.

this world aint running to jesus but away from him sadly.

We are not of the world, are we?

 

[Joe67]

Rev 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. KJV

How do we find it?

Prov 25:6-7
6 Put not forth thyself in the presence of the king, and stand not in the place of great men:

7 For better it is that it be said unto thee, Come up hither; than that thou shouldest be put lower in the presence of the prince whom thine eyes have seen. KJV

Rev 4:1-2
1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. KJV

Joe

 

[Adullam]

Seeking by faith in a full surrender to God. :yes

 

[jasoncran]

then kingdom of god, isnt just heaven, i must correct myself

if heaven is here, then what is hell or death like?

the lord reigns from heaven but he has come to the earth.

No, heaven is here. It is your state of mind after you repent of your sin, I believe:

[20] Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
[21] nor will they say, `Lo, here it is!' or `There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." Luke 17:20-21 RSV

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

If you are not in heaven, you are in hell.

uh no, that isnt the case why then is the tribuation state that the saints will be slaughtered.

 

[jasoncran]

in the tribulation the saints are slaughtered by satan, and wheres the messiah?
he aint on the earth physically, he does return to the mount of olives.

 

[elijah23]

uh no, that isnt the case why then is the tribuation state that the saints will be slaughtered.

You are talking about worldly things, aren’t you? Any one of us can be killed at any time, and so what? We just pass on to the resurrection.

I am talking about our souls. We can have heaven any time we choose. All we have to do is repent of our sins. Isn’t that what Jesus is saying? He said, “Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.†So repent, right?

 

[jasoncran]

uh no, that isnt the case why then is the tribuation state that the saints will be slaughtered.

You are talking about worldly things, aren’t you? Any one of us can be killed at any time, and so what? We just pass on to the resurrection.

I am talking about our souls. We can have heaven any time we choose. All we have to do is repent of our sins. Isn’t that what Jesus is saying? He said, “Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.†So repent, right?

no heaven isnt on the earth, and we still have the sin nature, that we deal with. you are saying and have always said that heaven is the state of sinless perfection, when is that done? death of the said saint and resurrection.

till then we have only a glimpse of what the totality of that will be.

two, all that will live Godly shall suffer persecution.

hmmm. does that sound like bliss to you when youre head rolls off your shoulders?

 

[elijah23]

no heaven isnt on the earth, and we still have the sin nature, that we deal with. you are saying and have always said that heaven is the state of sinless perfection, when is that done? death of the said saint and resurrection.

till then we have only a glimpse of what the totality of that will be.

two, all that will live Godly shall suffer persecution.

hmmm. does that sound like bliss to you when youre head rolls off your shoulders?

You are talking of worldly things, though, aren’t you? What do I care if my head rolls off my soldiers? I simply pass on to the resurrection, I believe. In the beginning, Christians welcomed it when they were martyred, I’ve read.

Why did Jesus say heaven was in the midst of us if it isn’t here?

Yes, we wrestle with our sinful natures. When we overcome that nature, we have peace. When we are overcome by that nature, we do not. Right?

 

[jasoncran]

you asked in that were will find heaven, in death and that if we are in christ.

i know of saints that are very holy and suffer.
i know a man whose daughtered died,and went home to be with the lord. if asked was he in hevean over that?
come on. bad things will come to the saints whether they sin or not. not all trials are cause by our sin. sometimes its just life, or satan. in any event we let god get the glory.

sinless perfection isnt possible for men on this earth even in christ. not even the apostles themselves who walked with the lord when he was alive on the earth reached that.

 

[elijah23]

you asked in that were will find heaven, in death and that if we are in christ.

i know of saints that are very holy and suffer.
i know a man whose daughtered died,and went home to be with the lord. if asked was he in hevean over that?
come on. bad things will come to the saints whether they sin or not. not all trials are cause by our sin. sometimes its just life, or satan. in any event we let god get the glory.

sinless perfection isnt possible for men on this earth even in christ. not even the apostles themselves who walked with the lord when he was alive on the earth reached that.

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48 RSV

 

[ORwarriOR]

A lot of saints don't try to enter the kingdom like a little child though. I try to enjoy everything in life like a child would. I'm not perfect; therefore I'm not perfectly happy. But take a look at children, look at how carefree and happy most of them are. They enjoy everything, everything is new to them and exciting. I try to cling onto many of my childhood memories, and certain things I still cherish. Heck, I'm 20 and I still love to play pokemon. Not all children have a super happy childhood, this is true, but children are much more predisposed to happiness than adults are. Jesus told us that unless we enter the kingdom of God like a child we will never enter it. So unless you're willing to live life through the eyes of a child, and cling onto all the dark and sinful things in your life you won't find the kingdom of God amidst you and you'll just be waiting around for the second life. I'd rather make the best out of this life and the next, while still doing Christ's work.

 

[jasoncran]

you asked in that were will find heaven, in death and that if we are in christ.

i know of saints that are very holy and suffer.
i know a man whose daughtered died,and went home to be with the lord. if asked was he in hevean over that?
come on. bad things will come to the saints whether they sin or not. not all trials are cause by our sin. sometimes its just life, or satan. in any event we let god get the glory.

sinless perfection isnt possible for men on this earth even in christ. not even the apostles themselves who walked with the lord when he was alive on the earth reached that.

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48 RSV

really, you misunderstand that, reconcile that with john 1:9.
did paul ever talk about being sin free? nope. that command what the lord fulfilled at the cross. we must reflect his perfection as much as possible, but no matter how long we are saved we cant be god.
if we could then we could also forgive sins. none of the apostles did that.

 

[elijah23]

really, you misunderstand that, reconcile that with john 1:9.
did paul ever talk about being sin free? nope. that command what the lord fulfilled at the cross. we must reflect his perfection as much as possible, but no matter how long we are saved we cant be god.
if we could then we could also forgive sins. none of the apostles did that.

If Jesus says we need to be perfect, we need to be perfect.

 

[ProphetMark]

Why did Jesus say heaven was in the midst of us if it isn’t here?

He didn't (unless maybe you think the kingdom of God is Heaven (not sure whether you'd be right in thinking that or not)).

 

[elijah23]

Why did Jesus say heaven was in the midst of us if it isn’t here?

He didn't (unless maybe you think the kingdom of God is Heaven (not sure whether you'd be right in thinking that or not)).

Heaven and the kingdom of God are the same things, aren’t they?

 

[jasoncran]

really, you misunderstand that, reconcile that with john 1:9.
did paul ever talk about being sin free? nope. that command what the lord fulfilled at the cross. we must reflect his perfection as much as possible, but no matter how long we are saved we cant be god.
if we could then we could also forgive sins. none of the apostles did that.

If Jesus says we need to be perfect, we need to be perfect.

if we could on our own be perfect, why the cross?

and santification isnt for the salvation of the repentent sinner but for the glory of god. evidence that we have fruits to that prayer we prayed, as we desire to be like jesus.

is the sinner that repented at the cross any more saved then the apostle paul or less saved?

there rewards for works, that is the bema seat ,not the white throne judgment, that is the rewards for our works.

 

[ORwarriOR]

I don't see the cross as any more important than the teachings of Christ; I'm not saying it was less important and it certainly summed up all of his teachings. As far as I'm concerned the cross was more of a symbolic climactic sacrifice to teach us total selflessness, which was what he was trying to teach us all along. And showed how much God loved us to sacrifice (be it his son or himself) Jesus, that we should make the choices in putting others before ourselves every day.