How do you find heaven?

[jasoncran]

I don't see the cross as any more important than the teachings of Christ; I'm not saying it was less important and it certainly summed up all of his teachings. As far as I'm concerned the cross was more of a symbolic climactic sacrifice to teach us total selflessness, which was what he was trying to teach us all along. And showed how much God loved us to sacrifice (be it his son or himself) Jesus, that we should make the choices in putting others before ourselves every day.

wow, you are out there, without the blood shed on the cross,no sins are forgiven, and christianity is a dead religion.

the death of the christ is the core piece of what the bible is about.

 

[elijah23]

if we could on our own be perfect, why the cross?

and santification isnt for the salvation of the repentent sinner but for the glory of god. evidence that we have fruits to that prayer we prayed, as we desire to be like jesus.

is the sinner that repented at the cross any more saved then the apostle paul or less saved?

there rewards for works, that is the bema seat ,not the white throne judgment, that is the rewards for our works.

We need to be perfect because the Lord said we need to be perfect.

I would agree that we need the Lord’s guidance to accomplish this.

 

[jasoncran]

if we could on our own be perfect, why the cross?

and santification isnt for the salvation of the repentent sinner but for the glory of god. evidence that we have fruits to that prayer we prayed, as we desire to be like jesus.

is the sinner that repented at the cross any more saved then the apostle paul or less saved?

there rewards for works, that is the bema seat ,not the white throne judgment, that is the rewards for our works.

We need to be perfect because the Lord said we need to be perfect.

I would agree that we need the Lord’s guidance to accomplish this.

but agian name one sinfree apostle. they were called to do signs and wonders.
i am pentacostal and i believe in the latter day rain, and the greater miracles, but we must look to the apostles as they were the ones who set the example

paul was so annoited that when the sick brought hankerchiefs to him, he prayed and they were healed.

peter was so anoited that his shadow healed persons.


yet both had some issues of sins and weakness.

 

[elijah23]

but agian name one sinfree apostle. they were called to do signs and wonders.
i am pentacostal and i believe in the latter day rain, and the greater miracles, but we must look to the apostles as they were the ones who set the example

paul was so annoited that when the sick brought hankerchiefs to him, he prayed and they were healed.

peter was so anoited that his shadow healed persons.


yet both had some issues of sins and weakness.

We’ve all sinned. Now we must work to become perfect as Jesus commanded.

 

[jasoncran]

but agian name one sinfree apostle. they were called to do signs and wonders.
i am pentacostal and i believe in the latter day rain, and the greater miracles, but we must look to the apostles as they were the ones who set the example

paul was so annoited that when the sick brought hankerchiefs to him, he prayed and they were healed.

peter was so anoited that his shadow healed persons.


yet both had some issues of sins and weakness.

We’ve all sinned. Now we must work to become perfect as Jesus commanded.

but has any of the apostle obtained this perfection? before death?
if they didnt how could we aspire as we should look to their works as well in alot of areas.

paul told the ephesians that they should imatate him as he imated christ.

now then if paul is following christ and states that he had never obtained that goal(the prize) while alive what then?

 

[elijah23]

but has any of the apostle obtained this perfection? before death?
if they didnt how could we aspire as we should look to their works as well in alot of areas.

paul told the ephesians that they should imatate him as he imated christ.

now then if paul is following christ and states that he had never obtained that goal(the prize) while alive what then?

Jesus told us to be perfect. That’s all I need to know.

 

[jasoncran]

but has any of the apostle obtained this perfection? before death?
if they didnt how could we aspire as we should look to their works as well in alot of areas.

paul told the ephesians that they should imatate him as he imated christ.

now then if paul is following christ and states that he had never obtained that goal(the prize) while alive what then?

Jesus told us to be perfect. That’s all I need to know.

that a weak defense, how did you got about it then. surely paul knew and strove to be perfect.

he didnt make it, he grew closer to the lord in appereance and his walk, but to the level of sinless perfection he didnt.

how does the flesh that remains till death,not fight agaisnt the spirit?i know godly men that pray for hours each day and are godly men, yet they see their faults and claim that havent obtained that sinless state.

 

[elijah23]

that a weak defense, how did you got about it then. surely paul knew and strove to be perfect.

he didnt make it, he grew closer to the lord in appereance and his walk, but to the level of sinless perfection he didnt.

how does the flesh that remains till death,not fight agaisnt the spirit?i know godly men that pray for hours each day and are godly men, yet they see their faults and claim that havent obtained that sinless state.

Jesus is our Lord. We must obey him.

 

[jasoncran]

that a weak defense, how did you got about it then. surely paul knew and strove to be perfect.

he didnt make it, he grew closer to the lord in appereance and his walk, but to the level of sinless perfection he didnt.

how does the flesh that remains till death,not fight agaisnt the spirit?i know godly men that pray for hours each day and are godly men, yet they see their faults and claim that havent obtained that sinless state.

Jesus is our Lord. We must obey him.

so pauls was in sin, as he never obtained that.was peter as well

its impossible for us on this earth to be sin free. how many times a day do you sin, in thought or action.

 

[elijah23]

so pauls was in sin, as he never obtained that.was peter as well

its impossible for us on this earth to be sin free. how many times a day do you sin, in thought or action.

We’ve all sinned but we need to become perfect. Jesus said so. Right?

Perhaps I don’t sin as much as you think I do.

 

[jasoncran]

so pauls was in sin, as he never obtained that.was peter as well

its impossible for us on this earth to be sin free. how many times a day do you sin, in thought or action.

We’ve all sinned but we need to become perfect. Jesus said so. Right?

Perhaps I don’t sin as much as you think I do.

doenst matter how much daily or how little, if its one a day, once a year, still not the measurements of holiness. as the lord never ever , ever since once. we cant say that we have sinned and been forgiven, the lord himself never had to repent of any sin.

 

[ProphetMark]

Why did Jesus say heaven was in the midst of us if it isn’t here?

He didn't (unless maybe you think the kingdom of God is Heaven (not sure whether you'd be right in thinking that or not)).

Heaven and the kingdom of God are the same things, aren’t they?

I'm not sure. Do you know of any bible verses that can clarify this?

 

[elijah23]

doenst matter how much daily or how little, if its one a day, once a year, still not the measurements of holiness. as the lord never ever , ever since once. we cant say that we have sinned and been forgiven, the lord himself never had to repent of any sin.

Jesus told us we need to be perfect. He’s the boss. Is there anything to discuss?

 

[elijah23]

I'm not sure. Do you know of any bible verses that can clarify this?

Not off hand. What would the difference be?

 

[ProphetMark]

I've never been sure whether the kingdom of God is just Heaven, or the whole universal church including the christians on Earth.

 

[Bick]

Do you find heaven by obeying Jesus, or do you find heaven by reading lots of books?

MY COMMENTS: Those, by faith in Christ as personal Saviour, are in the church/body of Christ, whose future, as sons of God and joint-heirs with Christ, will be in the heavenlies witnessing to the grace and mercies of God through Christ Jesus.

Read Ephesians the first three chapters especially.

The hope of Israel is the Messainic Kingdom on earth, which is what Jesus was proclaiming when he cried, "Repent for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand."
He wanted a change of mind and heart for national Israel, but, it did'nt happen then.
Of course, God's plan was that Jesus would be rejected and die for the sins, not just Israel, but for the whole world.

IMO, when Messiah Jesus comes again to the earth to destroy his enemies and rescue the righteous of Israel and the Gentile "God fearers", then that remnant will inheirit the land.