StoveBolts said:
Eccl12and13,
When Paul is writing in Romans 3 on Law, he is speaking about Torah, the Mosiac Law as Rick already stated. This is also true when Paul writes to the Galatians.
As Paul states in Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Chase out the "Therefore", and you will see why the Law (Torah) couldn't bring about Salvation, which is why when Paul says, "The Law was nailed to the Cross", he was referring to the Christ, for Christ, as the fulfillment of the Law, was able to do what the Law was unable to do. The Book of Hebrews has much to say on this matter.
What do you mean, 'Chase out the "Therefore"? Why would I REMOVE something from the bible?
Regardless, Salvation has always been based on belief, not works. Which is why Paul quotes Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Why doesn't anyone ever leave Pauls writings and quote from some of the other teachers of the NT? Why don't you guys go to a teacher that is easier to understand? I guess because these teachers don't leave any room for the grey areas you use to hide behind! Here is what James had to say about Faith, Works and Gods Law and it's very simple. I bet even you Pauleenites can understand him:
James 2
[8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
WOW!!!! James just said to speak and DO as they that will be judged by the Law!
[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
I don't know....CAN FAITH SAVE HIM? Let's read:
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
So is James saying it takes MORE THAT FAITH? Let's read more:
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
So even the devils believe, but will THEY be SAVED?
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
So Abraham going up the mountain and just BELIEVING was not enough. Abraham had to DO SOMETHING! He had to DRAW BACK THE KNIFE! He had to perform an ACTION!!!
So Abraham was justified by WORKS? WOW!!! Let's read more:
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[25] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Seem pretty simple to me.
So should we just disguard what James just told us because it does not APPEAR to follow the writings of Paul? Of course not. We are to use the ENTIRE BIBLE to prove our doctrine:
2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
1 Tim.4
[16] Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
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