How does God Judge those who never heard the gospel of Christ?

[Alfred Persson]

Was any of Jesus's audience on the hot seat being judge in that judgement? Any one? No? Then it was not "then", Jesus was speaking of a prophecy about AFTERLIFE. I believe for something or someone to die, they must be born and existing first.

Jesus didnt say they would read about His word, or that others would tell them His word, He said those who heard His word THEN would pass into life.

24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Jesus didnt say they would read about His word, or that others would tell them His word, He said those who heard His word THEN would pass into life.

24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

That "life" is the EVERLASTING LIFE after this mortal life, Jesus was prophesying of future resurrection, he was not preaching to zombies.

 

[Alfred Persson]

That "life" is the EVERLASTING LIFE after this mortal life, Jesus was prophesying of future resurrection, he was not preaching to zombies.

24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed (μεταβέβηκεν) from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

"Has passed" (μεταβέβηκεν) "perfect", action is completed, not "will pass" as you interpret.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Why does our Teacher the LORD Jesus Christ not believe you?

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Lk. 16:23-24 KJV)

That actually debunks your assertion. Thanks for handing me a cannon!

He WANTED a 2nd chance. He did not know he would be punished. He DIDN'T get it because your theory is wrong.
If your 2nd chance theory were true he would have used the 2nd chance to turn to God.

 

[Alfred Persson]

That actually debunks your assertion. Thanks for handing me a cannon!

He WANTED a 2nd chance. He did not know he would be punished. He DIDN'T get it because your theory is wrong.
If your 2nd chance theory were true he would have used the 2nd chance to turn to God.

The conversation lasted only a few minutes. The process of purging a soul of slavery to sin and delusion takes longer than a few minutes. Abraham and those with him WANTED to cross over into hell and console the rich man, but God wouldn't permit it. Also Abraham calls him "son, child", an endearing term he would never say to a wicked person.

That proves the rich man was not irredemably wicked because Abraham and those with him would NOT want to rebel against God and mitigate the penalty for sin:

25 "But Abraham said,`Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 `And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' (Lk. 16:25-26 NKJ)

 

[KV-44-v1]

The conversation lasted only a few minutes. The process of purging a soul of slavery to sin and delusion takes longer than a few minutes. Abraham and those with him WANTED to cross over into hell and console the rich man, but God wouldn't permit it.

Yes.
You, too, WISH and WANT and HOPE forand even BELIEVE there is a "2nd chance after physical death". But nobody will get it for the simply reason that the theory is W R O N G .

I want to fly like superman and be fast like Flash but that doesn't mean I'll get such abilities.

Also Abraham calls him "son, child", an endearing term he would never say to a wicked person.

Son/child of who? Jesus spoke of "children of the devil".

That proves the rich man was not irredemably wicked because Abraham and those with him would NOT want to rebel against God and mitigate the penalty for sin:

25 "But Abraham said,`Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 `And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' (Lk. 16:25-26 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes.
You, too, WISH and WANT and HOPE forand even BELIEVE there is a "2nd chance after physical death". But nobody will get it for the simply reason that the theory is W R O N G .

I want to fly like superman and be fast like Flash but that doesn't mean I'll get such abilities.

Son/child of who? Jesus spoke of "children of the devil".

Why would Abraham and those with him WANT to cross over into hell, to console the rich man? Its is impossible he do that for wicked man:

21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies. (Ps. 139:21-22 NKJ)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed (μεταβέβηκεν) from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

"Has passed" (μεταβέβηκεν) "perfect", action is completed, not "will pass" as you interpret.

God is beyond time and space, He's not bound by linear passing of time. If this is a complete action, enlighten me on what kind of death is this. It's not mortal death, since his audience is still breathing; not "spiritual death" as you may believe, because as I've repeatedly pointed out, how can one be spiritually dead there's not a spiritual life to begin with? Your interpretaion is totally illogical! "Has passed from death to life" means who hears and believes the gospel HAS their name written in the Book of Life when they are still alive in their mortal life, no name can be signed or crossed in that book after death, it's the same message of Jn. 3:16, that's the opposite of what you're preaching that the unsaved can received the gospel and be saved after death!

 

[Alfred Persson]

God is beyond time and space, He's not bound by linear passing of time. If this is a complete action, enlighten me on what kind of death is this. It's not mortal death, since his audience is still breathing; not "spiritual death" as you may believe, because as I've repeatedly pointed out, how can one be spiritually dead there's not a spiritual life to begin with? Your interpretaion is totally illogical! "Has passed from death to life" means who hears and believes the gospel HAS their name written in the Book of Life when they are still alive in their mortal life, no name can be signed or crossed in that book after death, it's the same message of Jn. 3:16, that's the opposite of what you're preaching that the unsaved can received the gospel and be saved after death!

Because you reject the revelation how Adam died in the day he ate from the tree, you cannot understand "death is separation from God". Physical death is a consequence of spiritual death.

God is Holy, what is dead is unholy. Adam cannot abide in God, God's Holy Being won't permit it.

To illustrate. Adam is a finite being of fire. God is infinite ocean of pure water. When Adam tries to enter God, he gets snuffed out.

Only in Christ is there atonement with God. Only in Christ can Adam pass from being fire, into the water.

NKJ John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Because you reject the revelation how Adam died in the day he ate from the tree, you cannot understand "death is separation from God". Physical death is a consequence of spiritual death.

God is Holy, what is dead is unholy. Adam cannot abide in God, God's Holy Being won't permit it.

To illustrate. Adam is a finite being of fire. God is infinite ocean of pure water. When Adam tries to enter God, he gets snuffed out.

Only in Christ is there atonement with God. Only in Christ can Adam pass from being fire, into the water.

NKJ John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (Jn. 5:24 NKJ)

No, physical death is the consequence of sin - "the wages of sin is death". The model ordained by God and demonstrated by Jesus is written in Rev. 1:18: MORTAL life, MORTAL death, resurrection.

"I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore."

Also, you may wanna consider Matt. 6:7. You must've at least a dozen repetitions of it, but all in vain as lnog as you spiritualize it.

"And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words."

 

[KV-44-v1]

Why would Abraham and those with him WANT to cross over into hell, to console the rich man? Its is impossible he do that for wicked man:

21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies. (Ps. 139:21-22 NKJ)

What does this have to do with anything?
Clearly Abraham did not believe the 2nd chance theory.
This is Psalms, not Luke. Two different Testaments. David wrote the Psalms. If you are claiming Abraham said these words, I dooubt you are correct.

The conversation lasted only a few minutes. The process of purging a soul of slavery to sin and delusion takes longer than a few minutes. Abraham and those with him WANTED to cross over into hell and console the rich man, but God wouldn't permit it. Also Abraham calls him "son, child", an endearing term he would never say to a wicked person.

That proves the rich man was not irredemably wicked because Abraham and those with him would NOT want to rebel against God and mitigate the penalty for sin:

So you cite Psalms, to "prove" that the man WAS irredemable?? Or what?

25 "But Abraham said,`Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 `And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' (Lk. 16:25-26 NKJ)

Yes.
You, too, WISH and WANT and HOPE for and even BELIEVE there is a "2nd chance after physical death". But nobody will get it for the simply reason that the theory is W R O N G .

I want to fly like superman and be fast like Flash but that doesn't mean I'll get such abilities.

Son/child of who? Jesus spoke of "children of the devil".

 

[Alfred Persson]

What does this have to do with anything?

25 "But Abraham said,`Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 `And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' (Lk. 16:25-26 NKJ)

The desire of Abraham and the Redeemed to endure the fires of Hell to console the Rich man.....PROVES the rich man was a child of God who was not wicked. He was being purged of wickedness and would be saved:

"Why would Abraham and those with him WANT to cross over into hell, to console the rich man? Its is impossible they do that for a wicked man therefore he was not a eternally condemned wicked man. That's elementary logic:

21 Do I not hate them, O LORD, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies. (Ps. 139:21-22 NKJ)"

 

[KV-44-v1]

26 `And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

Thanks for handing me another cannon! Once you die then normally your eternal destiny is sealed. You can't pass over to the other side. No 2nd chance for ANYONE!

 

[Alfred Persson]

Thanks for handing me another cannon! Once you die then normally your eternal destiny is sealed. You can't pass over to the other side. No 2nd chance for ANYONE!

Incorrect, all the dead leave Hades on Judgment Day at the latest which means they crossed the gulf as they left:

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. (Rev. 20:13 NKJ)

The book of life was opened so some of these names coming out of Hades could be written in, so they rose to life.

Confirming this, ONLY those whose names were NOT written into the book of life, suffered the second death:

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:15 NKJ)

Elementary logic is required to interpret scripture correctly. Its also called "common sense."

 

[KV-44-v1]

Incorrect, all the dead leave Hades on Judgment Day at the latest which means they crossed the gulf as they left:

Your claim contradicts this part of a verse:

so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

Clearly the dead leaving the grave are leaving to get judged by God with no 2nd chance.

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. (Rev. 20:13 NKJ)

Yes, people in the grave will be judged. And then they are stuck in their eternal destiny forever with no 2nd chance.

The book of life was opened so some of these names coming out of Hades could be written in, so they rose to life.

Where is the Book of Life mentioned there?

so some of these names coming out of Hades could be written in, so they rose to life.

Sounds like that describes saints of God.

Confirming this, ONLY those whose names were NOT written into the book of life, suffered the second death:

Death 1: Physical. Death 2: Eternal seperation from God.
Your logic would have there be a 3rd death. - Death 1 physical. Death 2 Unknown realm. wasting your 2nd chance on sin. Death 3 Eternal seperation from God.
The fact there is no third death makes problems for your new idea.

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev. 20:15 NKJ)

Yup, and they didn't get a "2nd chance".

Elementary logic is required to interpret scripture correctly. Its also called "common sense."

That's why I'm doing fairly well in countering this Strange Teaching of yours.

 

[KV-44-v1]

What does this have to do with anything?

[Answered]

Clearly Abraham did not believe the 2nd chance theory.
This is Psalms, not Luke. Two different Testaments. David wrote the Psalms. If you are claiming Abraham said these words, I doubt you are correct.

[UNANSWERED]

So you cite Psalms, to "prove" that the man WAS irredemable?? Or what?

[No answer]

Yes.
You, too, WISH and WANT and HOPE for and even BELIEVE there is a "2nd chance after physical death". But nobody will get it for the simply reason that the theory is W R O N G .

I want to fly like superman and be fast like Flash but that doesn't mean I'll get such abilities.

[no answer]

Son/child of who? Jesus spoke of "children of the devil".

[unaddressed]

 

[Alfred Persson]

Your claim contradicts this part of a verse:

Clearly the dead leaving the grave are leaving to get judged by God with no 2nd chance.

...

Where is the Book of Life mentioned there?

...

That's why I'm doing fairly well in countering this Strange Teaching of yours.

 

[Alfred Persson]

 

[KV-44-v1]

Seeing as you failed completely to rebut my responses, that is a very fitting reaction to your reply.

A redacted video. What did they have to hide?

 

[KV-44-v1]

Is this your teaching?

A ruined worldview with little logical basis that can easily be shred by a bit of scrutiny missiles. Sad.

You laugh at the man with an antitank bazooka.