HOW does one KNOW that they are being 'led' by THE Spirit?

[Imagican]

Ever notice HOW MANY 'different' interpretations one encounters both HERE and in ANY other 'Christian' environment?

IF there is ONLY ONE TRUTH and ONE Spirit OF GOD, there CAN ONLY be ONE doctrine that IS TRUTH.

Theology differs SO widely that those looking from the 'outside' in MUST think that Christianity is NUTS. For EVERY denomination offers DIFFERING opinions on EXACTLY 'what' is stated in The Word.

There are those that have 'believed' that it was OK to 'kill' their brothers and sisters. There are those that have 'believed' that one MUST be 'dunked in water' to receive the 'gift' of Salvation. There have been those that will INSIST that Jesus IS God Himself. There have EVEN been those that would lead their followers to MASS SUICIDE. Those that have 'believed' that it's OK to do that which the Bible STRICTLY forbids. Them that 'believe' that OSAS. Them that deny that Christ had FREEDOM to choose sin or sinlessness.

Now, the QUESTION IS: HOW do you suppose that there are DIFFERENT 'beliefs' in Christianity IF these are ALL following the SAME SPIRIT? And HOW do you reacon we are to RECOGNIZE '''THE""' SPIRIT over any 'other spirit'?

Just a 'little food for thought' for those that 'think' that they have it 'all figured out'. And for those that are simply tOO lazy to follow in the 'footsteps of Christ' and choose instead to follow in the 'footsteps of men'.

I'll wait for a couple of responses to SEE if there is anyone that is ABLE to anser these questions.

MEC

 

[Solo]

The correct answer is: Those that have the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling recognize that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD JEHOVAH GOD COME IN THE FLESH, while those who do not have the HOLY SPIRIT do not know JESUS CHRIST as LORD JEHOVAH GOD COME IN THE FLESH.

Those who cannot declare that JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD JEHOVAH GOD COME IN THE FLESH are of the spirit of antichrist, not the HOLY SPIRIT.

• 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

Those that cannot say that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD JEHOVAH GOD have not the HOLY SPIRIT.

• 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

[St. Ambrose]

Well...We just have to ask the inerrant Word of God what the pillar and foundation of truth is. ( 1 Timothy 3:15 )

Many on this board condemn Catholics for claiming the Pope is guided by the Holy Sprit. Yet, intrestingly enough, everybody here is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit!

Why is there so much confusion (and division...) amongst Christian denominations? Because all you have is 'me and the Bible' and NO AURHORITY TO INTERPRET IT.

2 Peter 1:20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.

 

[Guest]

Well...We just have to ask the inerrant Word of God what the pillar and foundation of truth is. ( 1 Timothy 3:15 )

Many on this board condemn Catholics for claiming the Pope is guided by the Holy Sprit. Yet, intrestingly enough, everybody here is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit!

Why is there so much confusion (and division...) amongst Christian denominations? Because all you have is 'me and the Bible' and NO AURHORITY TO INTERPRET IT.

On what basis can that 'authority' be questioned?

 

[St. Ambrose]

Who's authority? Yours or the Church's?

 

[Guest]

Unless I misunderstood your post - it seemed liked you were saying that the Pope is the "authority" that you have to intrepret the Bible for you.

My question is: on what basis can that "authority" be questioned.

In other words, on what basis can YOU as a Roman Catholic, question the Pope's understandind or intrepetation?

 

[francisdesales]

In other words, on what basis can YOU as a Roman Catholic, question the Pope's understandind or intrepetation?

As long as the Pope is teaching as a private person giving a private opinion, we have the right to question his personal interpretation.

For example, Pope John Paul 2's kissing of the Koran is seen as a private opinion, not an attitude that every Catholic must follow or agree with. We are called to obey God. Thus, when God speaks through the office of the heirarchy, we follow, believing that God still guides the Body of Christ, the Church.

Regards

 

[Guest]

As long as the Pope is teaching as a private person giving a private opinion, we have the right to question his personal interpretation.

For example, Pope John Paul 2's kissing of the Koran is seen as a private opinion, not an attitude that every Catholic must follow or agree with. We are called to obey God. Thus, when God speaks through the office of the heirarchy, we follow, believing that God still guides the Body of Christ, the Church.

Regards

And why is that seen as a 'private opinion'? So, it is okay for the Pope to believe in heresy as long as the pope is doing it in 'private' for his own 'personal interpretation'?

This does not make sense at all?!?

 

[St. Ambrose]

it seemed liked you were saying that the Pope is the "authority" that you have to intrepret the Bible for you.

I should have been clearer. Mea Culpa :-D

I was speaking of the Magesterium (teaching authority) of the Church. This teaching authority was given to St. Peter and the Apostles from Christ Himself (See Matthew 28- "Going, therefore teach ye all nations"). This authority was not given to everyone, just to the Apostles, and St. Peter (who was specifically commissioned to bear the 'keys to the kingdom' as well as to feed and tend Christ's sheep.)

When St. Peter was martyred someone else was chosen to weild his authority as keeper of the keys etc.. The other Aposlte's were no exception. They passed their authority as Bishops down by means of the 'laying on of hands'

This is what the Magesterium of the Church consists of: Bishops in union with the Pope who is the leader of the Church on earth. Jesus didn't say 'Peter: I will feed my sheep.' He commissioned St. Peter (alone; showing his distinct authority) to feed his sheep.
No Church, mind you none, can claim that there authority is Apostolic (going back to the Apostles) save the Catholic Church. This leaves us with a question. Where do these Protestant Pastors, Ministers, and Counselors get there authority? Where do any of those on this board?

The fact remains. Nobody on this board has the authority to speak definitively on the correct interpretation of Scripture...without claiming that they themselves (alone mind you) are infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[golfjack]

reply

You Catholic's are spinning around like a top again. Any born again believer has the authority to spread the gospel around the world. The church is a body of believers and not a body of Catholic's. I just tell people how to be saved and certainly don't lay hands on them to make them bishops.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[jgredline]

Hi Folks

Can we get this thread back on track....

Do YOU know which Spirit or spirit that you follow?
The Spirit is OBVIOUS to any that 'seek it.
The Spirit can be mimiced by Satan
There is NO WAY to mistake The Spirit for ANY OTHER
There are Spirits MANY and one CANNOT discern The Spirit 'on their own'.

 

[Imagican]

Well...We just have to ask the inerrant Word of God what the pillar and foundation of truth is. ( 1 Timothy 3:15 )

Many on this board condemn Catholics for claiming the Pope is guided by the Holy Sprit. Yet, intrestingly enough, everybody here is infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit!

Why is there so much confusion (and division...) amongst Christian denominations? Because all you have is 'me and the Bible' and NO AURHORITY TO INTERPRET IT.

I will accept the QUOTE that you offered. But IN IT; there is NO SUBSTANCE. Only words that 'LEAD' to The TRUTH. I'll explain;

WHO wrote these words that you quoted? And WHAT do these words POINT TO? For THIS IS THE ANSWER to FOUNDATION.

We have CHRIST'S example. And we have PAUL'S example. This IS the foundation. NOT the CC or ANY church 'made by the HANDS OF MEN'.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

As long as the Pope is teaching as a private person giving a private opinion, we have the right to question his personal interpretation.

For example, Pope John Paul 2's kissing of the Koran is seen as a private opinion, not an attitude that every Catholic must follow or agree with. We are called to obey God. Thus, when God speaks through the office of the heirarchy, we follow, believing that God still guides the Body of Christ, the Church.

Regards

NOW it is YOU that are 'cracking ME up'.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

thanks j.

But there is 'some creedence' as to what the Catholics are offering here. For the topic is HOW we KNOW that the spirit that we follow IS The Holy Spirit.

Now, we have historical accounts and examples of Popes Born through illegitimate means, HOW does one reconcile that the FATHERS of these were inspired and driven by The Holy Spirit? I didn't KNOW a 'liar' could even be CONSIDERED a 'son of God' or a BISHOP for that matter. For a Bishop MUST BE BLAMELESS.

So, HOW could the CC possibly have CONTINUED in The Spirit when we have PERFECT examples of those LEADING the CC, leading in FALSE directions. I mean can a 'leader' BE a TRUE LEADER that leads through DECEPTION?

This is a 'pretty good' example of EXACTLY WHY this thread was started.

Blind FAITH was NEVER offered through the prophets, apostles, God OR His Son. Faith in TRUTH THROUGH THE SPIRIT is what we have been instructed.

Now, HOW do we KNOW that we are adhering to THIS INSTRUCTION? How do we KNOW that the spirit that we CHOOSE to follow is INDEED The Holy Spirit?

MEC

 

[Imagican]

But, folks, unless the CC wants to HEAR how disfunctional 'their family' is, let us STICK to the topic of the thread.

IF there are Catholics that would like to discuss how 'twisted' their 'faith is', then let us do this in 'another thread'.

Here what I HOPE to DO is determine HOW we are to KNOW that the spirit that we follow IS The Holy Spirit.

I am WELL aware that the CC 'believes' that their 'church' IS the ONLY church and that BEING; THE Church. But for the 'sake' of us 'heretics', let us discuss this without 'man-made' doctrine being introduced.

Thanks,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

The correct answer is: Those that have the HOLY SPIRIT dwelling recognize that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD JEHOVAH GOD COME IN THE FLESH, while those who do not have the HOLY SPIRIT do not know JESUS CHRIST as LORD JEHOVAH GOD COME IN THE FLESH.

Those who cannot declare that JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD JEHOVAH GOD COME IN THE FLESH are of the spirit of antichrist, not the HOLY SPIRIT.

• 1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:1-3

Those that cannot say that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD JEHOVAH GOD have not the HOLY SPIRIT.

• 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

Solo, PLEASE, my brother. ENOUGH already.

I confess OPENLY and WHOLE-heartedly that Christ Jesus has COME in THE FLESH. You can rest assured that 'I' am NOT the anti-christ that you soo long to identify and label. But let The Spirit speak for itself. YOU, my friend, are NOT The Spirit I ASSURE YOU.

Nor are you the ENDING AUTHORITY ON ANYTHING, (IF an authority OF anything). So, let us BE ADULTS here and discuss the issue AS ADULTS. Enough of your paranoid 'anti-christ' comments. We have ALREADY HEARD them and they are DULY NOTED.

You remind me of the icon that someone once had on EVERY ONE OF THEIR POSTS. You know, the one with the 'devil poking the Holy Bible with his 'pitch-fork'? You have 'poked' enough.

Now, let us SEE if you are ABLE to discuss SOMETHING other than ME BEING the 'anti-christ'.

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

But there is 'some creedence' as to what the Catholics are offering here. For the topic is HOW we KNOW that the spirit that we follow IS The Holy Spirit.

Now, we have historical accounts and examples of Popes Born through illegitimate means, HOW does one reconcile that the FATHERS of these were inspired and driven by The Holy Spirit? I didn't KNOW a 'liar' could even be CONSIDERED a 'son of God' or a BISHOP for that matter. For a Bishop MUST BE BLAMELESS.

The Catholic Church doesn't proclaim perfection in her ministers. This, quite frankly, is a heresy called Donatism. It is the idea that God only works through perfect or nearly perfect ministers. Now really, can you find me a perfect minister in the OT whom God worked through? Any prophets that were without guilt? Moses? Abraham? Any of the other Patriarchs? You accept the OT and God's utilization of these men in the OT, but for some strange reason, you expect the Church to now have perfect ministers?

And secondly, why would God NEED to work through perfect men? Is it the man that brings the gifts and blessings, or is it God?

The fact remains that God CONTINUES to work through wounded men - just as Paul states in 2 Cor 12. He works MOST POWERFULLY THROUGH these weak and wounded creatures. While you may think that God only works through perfect, all-knowing people like yourself, the Scriptures does not show this to be true.

So, HOW could the CC possibly have CONTINUED in The Spirit when we have PERFECT examples of those LEADING the CC, leading in FALSE directions. I mean can a 'leader' BE a TRUE LEADER that leads through DECEPTION?

It seems to me that if Christ established a visible Church, that He would remain with them for all time, as He promised. If so, then you have a lot of explaining to do to show why God ABANDONED His promise to always be with His Church.

Blind FAITH was NEVER offered through the prophets, apostles, God OR His Son. Faith in TRUTH THROUGH THE SPIRIT is what we have been instructed.

What exactly is "Blind faith"? Who displays it?

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

And why is that seen as a 'private opinion'? So, it is okay for the Pope to believe in heresy as long as the pope is doing it in 'private' for his own 'personal interpretation'?

This does not make sense at all?!?

The Pope was making a personal statement. He didn't say that all Catholics are now to venerate the Koran (if that is what John Paul meant by the gesture. It might have just been a sign of respect).

The Pope was not executing his teaching ministry as leader of the flock for the sake of the entire Church. Thus, we are not held to any religious assent. The Church believes that the Pope is protected when speaking in his capacity "from the chair". Thus, the Pope's private opinions on who will win the Superbowl are not protected by the Spirit. Only when he leads as visible head of the Church when declaring a moral or doctrinal teaching for the sake of the entire Church.

Regards

 

[Solo]

Solo, PLEASE, my brother. ENOUGH already.

I confess OPENLY and WHOLE-heartedly that Christ Jesus has COME in THE FLESH. You can rest assured that 'I' am NOT the anti-christ that you soo long to identify and label. But let The Spirit speak for itself. YOU, my friend, are NOT The Spirit I ASSURE YOU.

Nor are you the ENDING AUTHORITY ON ANYTHING, (IF an authority OF anything). So, let us BE ADULTS here and discuss the issue AS ADULTS. Enough of your paranoid 'anti-christ' comments. We have ALREADY HEARD them and they are DULY NOTED.

You remind me of the icon that someone once had on EVERY ONE OF THEIR POSTS. You know, the one with the 'devil poking the Holy Bible with his 'pitch-fork'? You have 'poked' enough.

Now, let us SEE if you are ABLE to discuss SOMETHING other than ME BEING the 'anti-christ'.

MEC

Do Jehovah's Witnesses have the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

 

[Imagican]

fran,

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. God HAS established His Son's Church. And we were WARNED that there WOULD come 'others', (others NOT chosen by God Himself OR His Son), that would SUBVERT His TRUTH into 'something else'.

We HAVE the words of Paul; A Bishop MUST be 'blameless'. The Husband of ONE WIFE and WITH OBEDIENT CHILDREN. Your 'church' DENIES these words in FAVOR of 'their OWN' understanding. And a 'Bishop' is the 'lead' ORGANIZER, NOT some unquestionable LEADER that 'cannot' be challenged. For IF a 'Bishop' is TRULY chosen BY God, this WILL be 'apparent' to those led BY The Spirit. And BEING thus would be WILLING followers WITHOUT being MANIPULATED into their ACCEPTANCE through threat of pain or DEATH.

But, once again, we digress.

The issue here isn't about 'churches' but THE CHURCH of Christ that is LED by the Holy Spirit of God.

Now, fran, HOW do YOU know that the Spirit that YOU follow IS The Holy Spirit? That IS pertinent to this topic and I would like responses to the questions, not discussion of 'whether or not the CC is or ISN'T following the Spirit but HOW THEY WOULD KNOW one way or the other.

MEC