HOW does one KNOW that they are being 'led' by THE Spirit?

[Imagican]

Solo,

Funny you should ask.

Believe it or not, I almost made reference to them in a previous post.

I am NOT able to JUDGE the hearts of those that proclaim to BE JW.

While I do NOT agree with MUCH of their teachings, I WILL say this;

Of ALL the denominations that exist, this JW is the ONLY one that I have encountered 'at my front door, and out in public', spreading the 'good news'. That this 'good news' may NOT be 'complete OR perfect', they ARE 'DOING' what we were COMMANDED to DO. They have GONE OUT into this world and preach the NAME of Jesus Christ.

Now, NO NEED to 'start typing YET' Solo. For your heart HAS already been REVEALED. YOUR answer is going to BE;

They DON'T believe that Jesus Christ IS God so they CAN'T know ANYTHING of 'truth'.

Now, BEFORE you 'spout out' some such 'foolishness', ANSWER ME THIS:

WHICH denomination have YOU found that is 100 percent in-line with YOUR understanding. Which 'group' would YOU choose to be 'saved' if it were 'up to YOU'?

JW's; are they 'saved'? Can't answer that ANYMORE than you can. For neither YOU nor I KNOW their hearts.

They 'appear' as 'brainwashed' FOOLS to many. To others, such as myself, they seem LITTLE different than ANY OTHER denomination EXCEPT perhaps in that they are MORE devoted than MOST. And they INSIST that their congregation at LEAST ATTEMPT to avoid that which is UN-SEEMLY. Whereas MOST denominations that I have encountered ONLY seem interested in HOW MUCH MONEY ONE DROPS IN THE PLATE, (I think they like CHECKS better though, you know, harder to steal and that way the donors NAME is on it). For I have witnessed FORNICATORS being WELCOMED with OPEN ARMS in the Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal, etc...without a WORD of dissention offered when the congregation was confronted with the issue of membership. So long as these are willing to throw some money in the plate and SHOW UP, they are PERFECTLY content with their admittance.

Solo, BEFORE you even TRY IT; I am NOT a JW. I have studied their 'statement of faith' as I have ALL the Major denominations and find theirs to be as WEAK as that of OTHERS that are CERTAINLY more 'mainstream', but JUST AS WEAK.

I claim affiliation with NO denomination, (or NON-denomination for that matter). I have NO NEED to attempt to 'lift myself aBOVE' my brothers and sisters. AND NO, don't try to stick me with that 'UR' label EITHER. For I KNOW that the gift was offered TO ALL MEN, but MANY, (most), will UTTERLY ignore the responsibility that is ASSOCIATED with RECEIVERSHIP of The Gift. Neither AM I, nor do I even accept the teachings of UR.

Are THEY 'saved'? NOT MY JOB TO DISCERN this Solo. But I have met members of UR that have CERTAINLY 'learned MORE' than some Baptist ministers that I have MET. And I KNOW that the UR's are confused.

So, Mr. Solo, you tell me and EVERYBODY else here; What denomination is it that YOU 'believe', has it ALL figured out? Which 'church' do you propose that we should ALL devote ourselves TO?

Your question wasn't even CLOSE to being 'tricky enough'. For IF you dare offer to REVEAL that 'denomination' that YOU 'follow', I can PICK it apart as EASILY as you 'believe' you can the JW's. Funny, but that be said of ANY 'man-made' denomination.

MEC

 

[Solo]

MEC,
Once again, you jump to conclusions and where out the keyboard with nonsense having nothing to do with the question. If you would ever read and meditate rather than spout and spout and spout you would be much better off.

If you can take instruction from someone who believes that you need help, I would suggest that you pay more attention to God's Word and not your interpretation. You continually jump to conclusions, and spout unnecessary clap-trap without even investigating what God may be trying to teach you. Of course, you have a stronghold built up by the enemy, that you refuse to tear down, and it is very apparent to those in the body of Christ.

Take a moment and read this question one more time, and see if you can give an appropriate answer without jumping to conclusions. Remember, this is a test, and you will give the correct answer or the wrong answer. Once again, Do Jehovah's Witnesses have the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

 

[Vic C.]

Personally.. and I don't care at this point if I sound judgemental because I save it for when I think it really counts... I think you lack discernment. Your comments about the JW's reveal it to me. You base your opinion of them not on the quality of their fruit, but on things exterior. So what if they are "out" there more than many other groups... so are the Mormons. It's WHAT is being said that is most important. What if I were to stop you at a street corner, while you're driving and attempt to wash your windows with dirty, gritty soapy water?

I guess that's ok, for at least I'm out there trying, heh? After all, there IS soap in the water, so it can't be all that bad.

Salvation produces good works in a person. I don't consider their brand of witnessing "good works". As a matter of fact, most cults make no bones about telling their followers thay MUST do one thing or another or another... in order to become part of the Kingdom.


Remember...

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

[jgredline]

Of ALL the denominations that exist, this JW is the ONLY one that I have encountered 'at my front door, and out in public', spreading the 'good news'. That this 'good news' may NOT be 'complete OR perfect', they ARE 'DOING' what we were COMMANDED to DO. They have GONE OUT into this world and preach the NAME of Jesus Christ.

Mec....
I am not in the least bit surprised at your comment although it is getting to the point of Getting old....''Everybody'' weather they choose to believe it or not will fit into a theological group of people....E.G....Some are baptist, some are pentecostal, some are catholic, some are Mormons and some are JW...

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was ''A'' god.....

Do you see anything wrong with this scripture?
Notice the ''A'' god at the end of the 1st verse of the book of John....You see the JW do not believe in the same Jesus that I believe in....They believe in the same Jesus you believe in which is which is ''another Jesus''...not the Jesus who is contained in the 66 books of the bible....

Mec your theology is very much christedelphians or JW... Those are cults and their beliefs are of the devil....I have felt and believe that you get your earthly wisdom from the father of Lies....You say that you have been delivered from the evil one, but I hear a voice crying out for help.....You know what I and many others here have presented you the truth of Jesus Christ....You speak of love, but you know NOT what AGAPE love is for that can only come from God himself. Jesus Christ.....

I pray that you will allow Jesus to search your heart and cleanse it...Mec, This morning and many morning, I pray for you by name....I feel such a burden for you, that I can't explain....Have you ever prayed for me or Michael and I don't mean a simple little Prayer but truly and regularly prayed for us or other here and else ware? I say it with no shame that I have been on my knees for you and few other that are regulars on this very forum...I say this not to boast, but to be humble...You see I know my position...I can't save u or anyone, for only God can save.....I pray that you will indeed consider what I and other have said to you....

Javier

 

[francisdesales]

fran,

We HAVE the words of Paul; A Bishop MUST be 'blameless'. The Husband of ONE WIFE and WITH OBEDIENT CHILDREN. Your 'church' DENIES these words in FAVOR of 'their OWN' understanding. And a 'Bishop' is the 'lead' ORGANIZER, NOT some unquestionable LEADER that 'cannot' be challenged. For IF a 'Bishop' is TRULY chosen BY God, this WILL be 'apparent' to those led BY The Spirit. And BEING thus would be WILLING followers WITHOUT being MANIPULATED into their ACCEPTANCE through threat of pain or DEATH.

Paul said a lot of things... He said that women are not to be heard in church and to cover their heads. The vast majority of people believe these are customs of the time and not applicable to all ages.

Now, as to Bishops. Yes, during Paul's time, the IDEAL was that they were to be chosen from "blameless" candidates - which, of course, is a relative thing, since no one is blameless besides Jesus and Mary. But do you think that such ideas that a bishop must be married only to one wife means he MUST be married? Hardly. Paul was a "bishop" and he wasn't married. He also told the Corinthians that he PREFERS people to remain unmarried for the sake of following Christ better. The LATIN (not Catholic...) DISCIPLINE merely takes into account Paul and Jesus' teachings that men better serve God if they remain unmarried. There are numerous CATHOLIC priests and bishops who ARE married.

The problem is, again, you don't know much about the Church that you enjoy attacking. It is only LATIN RITES Catholics who do not allow their priests to marry once they are ordained. EASTERN RITES Catholics CAN marry! Also, the Pope can grant a dispensation. There are a number of former Protestant ministers who are now priests and do INDEED have wives...

Thus, your attacks, again, are misplaced.

The issue here isn't about 'churches' but THE CHURCH of Christ that is LED by the Holy Spirit of God.

Well, yours is a nice fantasy, a purely spiritual and invisible church. However, that totally ignores that FACT that Jesus became VISIBLE and instituted a VISIBLE organization with leaders. He gave them TEACHINGS that were to be followed and given to other people who desired to come to Christ. Again, through visible means. Your spiritual-only "church" denies the reality of the Incarnation.

And as Solo has posted time and time again, the one who refuses to believe that God came in the flesh is doomed. Those who deny the Incarnation like yourself are the same who hold to this invisible "church".

What is interesting is how one comes up with an invisible church. Isn't a church, by definition, very much visible???

Now, fran, HOW do YOU know that the Spirit that YOU follow IS The Holy Spirit? That IS pertinent to this topic and I would like responses to the questions, not discussion of 'whether or not the CC is or ISN'T following the Spirit but HOW THEY WOULD KNOW one way or the other.

I believe that God established a community led by particular men to continue God's work in the world - bringing people to Christ. There was no "interruption" of this work. This work remained "the light of the world", not something "under a bushel basket". I know I follow the Spirit by the fruit of my works of love. I also know that God works through the sacraments and the Liturgy. God works through the Scriptures. Thus, the Spirit is present there, as well.

The Spirit guides the Church, the community as a whole. I believe there is a marked difference between personally claiming the Spirit guides one's every thought and action and the Church ITSELF as a Body saying that the Spirit guides IT. Throughout Scriptures, the Spirit is given predominantly to the community - not the individual exclusive of the community. That is what you continuously try to do. You try to make the claim that the Spirit comes to you while it has abandoned the Church. This won't do. The Scriptures will have none of this nonsense.

Regards

 

[Imagican]

j,

I thank you for your prayers. And YES, I have prayed for MANY on this forum and have SEEN the results manifest on a 'number' of occasions.

But PLEASE don't attempt to voodoo me, (he he he). For I have been DEEPER than most could even fathom. NO, I am NOT the ONLY ONE. But brother, I HAVE been DEEP.

Suffice is to say that I have TASTED of The Spirit and recognize it for WHAT it IS. That is something that MOST have little NEED for OR desire. I judge NOT the hearts of others, simply make an observation based on their WORDS. For The Spirit IS able to recognize The Spirit.

Thanks again and you TOO are in my prayers.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

fran,

If I had the 'time' I would simply say, 'Take it to the personal debate area'. Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depends on you point of veiw I guess), I don't.

It seems as if this thread has simply become another 'shooting gallery' with Mike as the DUCK worth a 'thousand points'.

I really don't want to discuss doctrinal issues concerning the teachings of 'different churches'. What I had hoped to discuss was The Spirit of God and HOW one KNOWS IF they are following THE Spirit or just 'some' spirit. But I guess this isn't going to happen anytime soon.

So, for the sake of the TOPIC, I will NOT be making any more comments to that which is NOT relevant to the topic. If I DO do so, it will be in the form of a personal message or email.

And I DO appreciate all the love offered as of late. I was beginning to 'think' that eveybody here HATED me, (he he he).

MEC