How exactly is Divorce without cause and remarriage NOT ADULTERY?

[chessman]

How does his refusing to seek counseling indicate that he was not a believer?

The suggestion was to seek pastoral counseling. Short of maybe some of the Pope’s in history, What believer doesn't recognize his need for more Christian leadership and counseling???

Because of this do not become foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not be drunk with wine (in which is dissipation [asōtía (from 1 /A "without" and 4982/sṓzō, "save") – properly, what can't be saved (waste); (figuratively) prodigality, spiritual wastefulness due to excessive behavior and the dire consequences it brings.]), but be filled by the Spirit, speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and singing praise in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to the God and Father, being subject to one another out of reverence for Christ —wives to their own husbands as to the Lord, because the husband is the head of the wife, as also Christ is the head of the church (he himself being the Savior of the body). Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for her; in order that he might sanctify her by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word; in order that he might present to himself the church glorious, not having a spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she may be holy and blameless. Thus also husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies. The one who loves his own wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as also Christ does the church, because we are members of his body.​

Ephesians 5:17-23,25-30 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ephesians 5:17-23,25-30&version=LEB

The Epistles themselves are ‘counseling’ to church members. Some of which contains marriage counseling

Every Christian husband has to “understand what the will of the Lord is” for their husbandry. It doesn’t come naturally and needs to be taught, retaught and practiced. Attending church twice, just doesn’t cut it.

 

[Free]

Divorce from an unbeliever is permitted. Be not unequally yoked with an unbeliever. 2 Corinthians 6:14.

Although many quote this verse in regards to marriage, it has nothing to do with it. The context is idolatry.

 

[Free]

Answered prayer.
It’s vitally important to the decision on who to marry (or not) that it be a tri-lateral agreement (both spouses plus God).

Like each personal salvation experience (not all have the same details), Not every pre-marriage partner confirmation experience need be the same. I have had only three times in my life that I’ve ‘heard’ God speak to me directly. One was His answer to my prayer as to whether marry my wife.

God joins, Godly marriages.

And yet there is no Scripture to back this up.

 

[chessman]

And yet there is no Scripture to back this up.

Yes there is

 

[artful horizon]

Although many quote this verse in regards to marriage, it has nothing to do with it. The context is idolatry.

Not really.
Can you post the scripture wherein God says be blesses a marriage with an unbeliever.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I have the same dilemma you do.
Telling someone that they cannot remarry because God does not recognize divorce is the same as telling a homosexual person he/she must remain alone all their lives.

Tough subject PZ.
I have a friend who was divorced many years ago.
As you know I come from the RCC. She was allowed to go to Mass, but she could not receive communion because she was remarried to someone.

The fact that she could not receive communion should have been a signal to her that she was committing grave sin. But it wasn't. She was happy to be able to attend Mass.

So do we sin in God's eyes no matter what...
Or does He hold us responsible ONLY for what we KNOW?

I believe it has to be the second.
Thoughts?

P.S. I didn't listen to John Piper.
I don't even know who he is. If I was going to ask advice to anyone it would be a priest I know. He's the holiest person I know. Really.

Life is full of tough questions and unfortunately, there are competing answers. Often these answers come from the people we've trusted with other issues. It's okay that you don't listen to Piper. He's just another guy with answers. He's a clear thinker but that doesn't mean he's always sound in his thoughts. We should seek council from those we trust.

I don't think God holds us responsible for things we don't know. Maybe that's iffy but it seems reasonable to hold us responsible for the light we have.

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin (John 15:22 NIV).

Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief (1 Timothy 1:13 NIV).

Luke 12:48
but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

James 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

 

[artful horizon]

Yes there is

Should you have posted it then?

 

[Papa Zoom]

.

 

[Free]

Not really.

Very much really. To say it applies to marriage is to completely divorce it from its context and make it say something it does not.

2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (ESV)

Can you post the scripture wherein God says be blesses a marriage with an unbeliever.

No because that is not an argument I am making.

Can you provide a verse where God blesses marriage only between believers? How about a verse where God blesses any marriage?

 

[chessman]

Should you have posted it then?

I have. See posts #106 and #129

But it was not necessary for me to post them again in the reply post to WIP because I was not disagreeing with any of his claims.

But in the post Free replied to ( in disagreement with me), he did not post any Scripture to support his case for disagreement. Which is a violation of this forum’s rules he routinely commits.

 

[Free]

I have. See posts #106 and #129

But it was not necessary for me to post them again in the reply post to WIP because I was not disagreeing with any of his claims.

But in the post Free replied to ( in disagreement with me), he did not post any Scripture to support his case for disagreement. Which is a violation of this forum’s rules he routinely commits.

Grow up. There was no violation. In your post you never gave Scripture and that is what I was addressing.

 

[artful horizon]

I have. See posts #106 and #129

But it was not necessary for me to post them again in the reply post to WIP because I was not disagreeing with any of his claims.

But in the post Free replied to ( in disagreement with me), he did not post any Scripture to support his case for disagreement. Which is a violation of this forum’s rules he routinely commits.

You'll understand when I suggest it isn't fair to expect new arrivals at page 10 and your post #190 to know about posts #106 or #129. Nor is it fair to expect anyone to search through to find them so as to understand in correct context your response in post #184.

 

[artful horizon]

Very much really. To say it applies to marriage is to completely divorce it from its context and make it say something it does not.

2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (ESV)

No, not really. A believer in God would not find themselves yoked to an unbeliever in matters of idolatry. Yoked refers in parable form to the passage in Deuteronomy 22 that warns not to plow with a donkey and Ox yoked together. Meaning two different temperaments and strengths in bonding them together for the sole purpose of tilling a field. It doesn't work.

The Apostle Paul's admonition against yoking with unbelievers taken in the context of his writing to the church in Corinth, which was a wild city prone to paganism and debauchery. His warning was many fold including marriage. Do not marry unbelievers. Making for an unequal union between people of Christ and unbelievers.

No because that is not an argument I am making.

Then you're in the wrong thread. This is a thread speaking to marriage.

Can you provide a verse where God blesses marriage only between believers? How about a verse where God blesses any marriage?

Since you're not speaking to the topic of this thread as you said prior, it's not necessary.

 

[chessman]

To say it applies to marriage is to completely divorce it from its context and make it say something it does not.

Here’s why marriage IS part of the context of Paul’s 2nd letter to answer the Corinthians questions, some of which delt with marriages and divorce (as previously posted):

From the opening verses:

Now because we are fellow workers, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain. For he says, “At the acceptable time I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” Behold, now is the acceptable time; behold, now is the day of salvation! We are giving no one an occasion for taking offense in anything, in order that our ministry will not have fault found with it, but commending ourselves as servants of God in every way, in much endurance, in afflictions, in distresses, in difficulties, in beatings, in prisons, in disturbances, in troubles, in sleepless nights, in going hungry, in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in love without hypocrisy, in the word of truth, in the power of God, with the weapons of righteousness for the right hand and left hand, through glory and dishonor, through slander and good repute, regarded as deceivers and yet truthful, as unknown and yet known completely, as dying, and behold, we go on living, as disciplined, and yet not put to death, as grieving, but always rejoicing, as poor, but making many rich, as having nothing, and possessing everything.​

2 Corinthians 6:1-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Corinthians 6:1-10&version=LEB

1. Are husbands and their helpers (wives) fellow workers??? Yes.
2. Would having an atheist/unbelieving spouse give an occasion/reason for seeing hypocrisy and for others to take offense to the witness of a Christian spouse teaching others to “not be unequally yoked with unbelievers”??? Yes.
3. Are spouses partners during “troubles and sleepless nights”??? Yes.
4. Are adulterous spouses pure??? Not without sanctification.
5. Are loving spouses supposed to be the very epitome of being patient and kind to each other “in love”??? Yes.
6. Is the context of a Godly spouse in marriage within “always rejoicing”??? Yes.
7. Are spouses possessions??? Yes.

And from the immediate context:

You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted in your affections. Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers, for what participation is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what share does a believer have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said, “I will live in them and will walk about among them, and I will be their God and they will be my people.” Therefore “come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord, “and do not touch what is unclean, and I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to me,” says the all-powerful Lord.​

2 Corinthians 6:12,14-18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Corinthians 6:12,14-18&version=LEB

8. Are spouses affectionate to each other??? Yes.
9. Do spouses participate in all kinds of decisions (to include whether to teach their children about Christ)??? Yes.
10. Do spouses fellowship with each other (to include fellowshiping with the church)??? Yes.
11. Is a Christian indwelt with the Spirit of Christ (light)??? Yes.
12. Are Biblically based decisions going to be made more difficult by a non-Bible believing spouse (to include household financial decisions)??? Yes.

 

[for_his_glory]

I struggle with this because how do we know for sure whether God joined us or not? I can't help but wonder if we use this as an excuse or justification for our own sins. I fear we convince ourselves that based on our current state of happiness or contentment God must not have been involved the first time.

As StoveBolts brought it to our attention is that we do many things out of ignorance thinking God approved our actions. Paul thought he was doing the right thing killing the Christians and even said he did this in the name of God. Upon his conversation on the road to Damascus he was brought to light of what he was doing and was brought into all truths of Gods word.

I can relate this to myself as I married this man out of ignorance and also through a false pretense on his part. It wasn't until after I left him and was so depressed and lost most of my self-esteem that I thought God hated me for divorcing him. I went to my Pastor at the time for counseling, but all I got from him was a pat on the back and told I was a strong person and could handle all I was feeling. That led me to become suicidal, but instead of killing myself I too had my own type of a road to Damascus experience that brought me closer to God that made me start digging deeper into His word and showed me that I had cause to divorce my husband.

 

[Traveling teacher]

1 corinthians 7:13-14
Shows for a believer not to divorce the unbeliever
Also says the the unbelieving spouse and children are blessed and sanctified

 

[Free]

Here’s why marriage IS part of the context of Paul’s 2nd letter to answer the Corinthians questions, some of which delt with marriages and divorce (as previously posted):

From the opening verses:

Now because we are fellow workers, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain. For he says, “At the acceptable time I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” Behold, now is the acceptable time; behold, now is the day of salvation! We are giving no one an occasion for taking offense in anything, in order that our ministry will not have fault found with it, but commending ourselves as servants of God in every way, in much endurance, in afflictions, in distresses, in difficulties, in beatings, in prisons, in disturbances, in troubles, in sleepless nights, in going hungry, in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in love without hypocrisy, in the word of truth, in the power of God, with the weapons of righteousness for the right hand and left hand, through glory and dishonor, through slander and good repute, regarded as deceivers and yet truthful, as unknown and yet known completely, as dying, and behold, we go on living, as disciplined, and yet not put to death, as grieving, but always rejoicing, as poor, but making many rich, as having nothing, and possessing everything.​

2 Corinthians 6:1-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Corinthians 6:1-10&version=LEB

1. Are husbands and their helpers (wives) fellow workers??? Yes.
2. Would having an atheist/unbelieving spouse give an occasion/reason for seeing hypocrisy and for others to take offense to the witness of a Christian spouse teaching others to “not be unequally yoked with unbelievers”??? Yes.
3. Are spouses partners during “troubles and sleepless nights”??? Yes.
4. Are adulterous spouses pure??? Not without sanctification.
5. Are loving spouses supposed to be the very epitome of being patient and kind to each other “in love”??? Yes.
6. Is the context of a Godly spouse in marriage within “always rejoicing”??? Yes.
7. Are spouses possessions??? Yes.

And from the immediate context:

You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted in your affections. Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers, for what participation is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what share does a believer have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said, “I will live in them and will walk about among them, and I will be their God and they will be my people.” Therefore “come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord, “and do not touch what is unclean, and I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to me,” says the all-powerful Lord.​

2 Corinthians 6:12,14-18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=2 Corinthians 6:12,14-18&version=LEB

8. Are spouses affectionate to each other??? Yes.
9. Do spouses participate in all kinds of decisions (to include whether to teach their children about Christ)??? Yes.
10. Do spouses fellowship with each other (to include fellowshiping with the church)??? Yes.
11. Is a Christian indwelt with the Spirit of Christ (light)??? Yes.
12. Are Biblically based decisions going to be made more difficult by a non-Bible believing spouse (to include household financial decisions)??? Yes.

Not a single thing in your post supports what your argument. It's all conjecture. You are wanting verse 14 to say something it does not. The context very clearly is only in reference to joining in the worship of idols.

 

[Free]

No, not really. A believer in God would not find themselves yoked to an unbeliever in matters of idolatry. Yoked refers in parable form to the passage in Deuteronomy 22 that warns not to plow with a donkey and Ox yoked together. Meaning two different temperaments and strengths in bonding them together for the sole purpose of tilling a field. It doesn't work.

The Apostle Paul's admonition against yoking with unbelievers taken in the context of his writing to the church in Corinth, which was a wild city prone to paganism and debauchery. His warning was many fold including marriage. Do not marry unbelievers. Making for an unequal union between people of Christ and unbelievers.

The sole context is that of joining in the worship of idols.

Then you're in the wrong thread. This is a thread speaking to marriage.

I am well aware but my point stands: you cannot ask me, or anyone, to defend a point they are not making.

Since you're not speaking to the topic of this thread as you said prior, it's not necessary.

I have said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth. And don't use me as a cop-out for your inability or unwillingness to answer my question.

You asking me that question implies that you believe that God does bless only marriages between two believers. So, I ask again: Can you provide a verse where God blesses marriage only between believers? How about a verse where God blesses any marriage?

 

[artful horizon]

The sole context is that of joining in the worship of idols.

Debatable. But that's OK.

I am well aware but my point stands: you cannot ask me, or anyone, to defend a point they are not making.

And yet, when you're wrong you're wrong.

I have said no such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth. And don't use me as a cop-out for your inability or unwillingness to answer my question.

You asking me that question implies that you believe that God does bless only marriages between two believers. So, I ask again: Can you provide a verse where God blesses marriage only between believers? How about a verse where God blesses any marriage?

As I said, and now you refuse to speak to the topic of this thread prior, your question is irrelevant. God ordained marriage in Genesis. Imagining God doesn't bless marriage between believers is absurd. Proving he blesses marriages , that people of faith be unequally yoked with unbelievers, is impossible.

 

[Free]

Debatable. But that's OK.

I have given the context and that is what it clearly shows.

And yet, when you're wrong you're wrong.

About what? Your conjectures are pointless.

As I said, and now you refuse to speak to the topic of this thread prior, your question is irrelevant. God ordained marriage in Genesis. Imagining God doesn't bless marriage between believers is absurd. Proving he blesses marriages , that people of faith be unequally yoked with unbelievers, is impossible.

I haven't refused to speak to anything. So, you cannot provide a single verse in which God blesses specifically only marriages between believers. Instead you prefer to give more conjecture about what God does and doesn't bless.