How exactly is Divorce without cause and remarriage NOT ADULTERY?

[Papa Zoom]

Totally agree WIP
For the record i have family members i love that have divorced and remarried...

My daughter. I was so broken over her first divorce. It nearly destroyed our relationship. I complained to God over it. He told me to clean out my own closets and I knew what he meant. The whole story of how God worked in my life at that time is interesting, but long. So I won't bother. But through a series of events, one being deep depression that caused me to lose work, I learned that I have zero control or responsibility for how others act in this world. My job was to love others as God commanded. Love never fails. When she divorced the second time I was there for her and told her that nothing could ever bring me to where I stopped loving her. And that I was there for her no matter what. She cried and cried at that.

BTW, the church failed her during this time and she left and has never been back. Why? They forgot to love. They preached and condemned. I did a little bit of that myself. Lots of self-righteousness happened. Little love.

Divorce happens. God hates it. God also hates a lying tongue. But he loves us. He wants what is for our good. And one thing, above all other things, that is good for us, is to love and forgive others AND to clean out our own closets. Recognize that we're all broken before God and the ONLY reason we stand before Him, clean and holy: The finished work of Jesus. His death and resurrection. We stand because of HIM.

 

[Free]

The question wasn't about Divorce, see the OP. The Question was not about whether or not you can divorce, that is clearly a liberty given. The question was about remarriage after the divorce. We live in a day and age when people won't endure sound doctrine. You want proof. I posted scripture from the King James Bible on a response.

And yet, within the context of the post you quoted, you chastised someone for saying "I think," and it didn't have anything to do with the OP. Then you did the same.

We live in an age of all sorts of things, including where people post Scripture without understanding the full breadth of a given topic or miss the spirit behind the words.

Which has now been deleted. Along with many other posts, that would insinuate that they also believe adultery is a sin. You should consider that long and hard. This is a Christian Forum. The heading is Theology and you are deleting posts that has nothing but scripture! WOW! Well, I will leave you to your self then.

Posts have been deleted only because they violated the rules of this forum. And, no, I didn't delete a single thing. Perhaps you should be slow to "speak" and quick to "listen".

 

[Free]

What I'm wondering is that if someone is in an abusive marriage, where in Scripture does it say that this is a valid reason for seeking a divorce? We may not like it but if we are married it is for life and if, while we are married, we leave and seek another relationship we will be guilty of adultery will we not? Unless I can find the Scripture that allows for divorce for any reason except sexual immortality as explained by our Lord, Jesus, my thought is that when we find ourselves in an abusive relationship we have one of two choices; either we stay and deal with it (not likely the best scenario) or we leave the relationship to protect ourselves but we will remain married.

I'm seeking the right answer not based on our feelings but on what God has said through His written word. Can someone show me where I'm wrong?

While I wish that the Bible dealt with this issue explicitly, it doesn't, just as it doesn't deal with a lot of the Christian life explicitly but rather provides the principles in certain situations that we are to apply to other, unmentioned situations. So, we need to consider the context of what Jesus says:

Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
...
Mat 5:31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (ESV)

First, it is adultery just to lust after a woman. Second, the Jews allowed for divorce for the most trivial of matters. That is the main reason for Jesus addressing the issue. It seems to me that there is more going on here, more depth to the issue, than just a physical act and even just that physical act. Could it be that Jesus is really addressing the breaking of a vow, the breaking of the marriage covenant? If that is the case, then a strong case can be made that abuse is also a breaking of the marriage covenant and, therefore, a legitimate reason for divorce.

We need to also consider what Paul says:

1Co 7:12 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.
1Co 7:13 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. (ESV)

Paul adds another allowance for divorce--an unbelieving spouse. When we consider someone who is abusive, we must also consider that to act consistently in such a manner shows that one is not a believer. Of course, that is when the unbeliever leaves, but it is yet another allowance. It is not a far stretch to allow a believer to leave an abusive, unbelieving spouse.

We also have to consider what marriage is about in the first place. It is supposed to be about love and putting the other first, helping them to become the best they can be. It is even used as an analogy of Christ and the Church, as you know. But an abusive partner is the opposite of those things. An abusive marriage looks nothing like what a marriage is supposed to look like, according to Paul's writings on the matter.

Should we not allow someone to remarry and experience the love of another just because they removed themselves from an abusive situation? I just don't see it.

 

[reba]

O how we wish to be like the world

 

[Papyrus_dust]

I think that the argument anywhere in the world that claims a woman must stay with a husband that beats her, which is assault and illegal , but is to be tolerable because the abuse victim is a wife, is approved by God.
Where in the Bible does it state a woman must be at risk of losing her life to her husbands rage and stay and take the abuse, because it would be an unpardonable sin were she to save herself and leave. And seek a divorce.
Where does God approve spousal abuse?

 

[billybalke]

I think that the argument anywhere in the world that claims a woman must stay with a husband that beats her, which is assault and illegal , but is to be tolerable because the abuse victim is a wife, is approved by God.
Where in the Bible does it state a woman must be at risk of losing her life to her husbands rage and stay and take the abuse, because it would be an unpardonable sin were she to save herself and leave. And seek a divorce.
Where does God approve spousal abuse?

This is not in answer to your present post, it is to call your attention to my post # 33

 

[reba]

I think that the argument anywhere in the world that claims a woman must stay with a husband that beats her, which is assault and illegal , but is to be tolerable because the abuse victim is a wife, is approved by God.
Where in the Bible does it state a woman must be at risk of losing her life to her husbands rage and stay and take the abuse, because it would be an unpardonable sin were she to save herself and leave. And seek a divorce.
Where does God approve spousal abuse?

Who here has said stay and get beat or killed? no one.. do we put or sex life above the Scriptures they do say what they say..

 

[WIP]

While I wish that the Bible dealt with this issue explicitly, it doesn't, just as it doesn't deal with a lot of the Christian life explicitly but rather provides the principles in certain situations that we are to apply to other, unmentioned situations. So, we need to consider the context of what Jesus says:

Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
...
Mat 5:31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (ESV)

First, it is adultery just to lust after a woman. Second, the Jews allowed for divorce for the most trivial of matters. That is the main reason for Jesus addressing the issue. It seems to me that there is more going on here, more depth to the issue, than just a physical act and even just that physical act. Could it be that Jesus is really addressing the breaking of a vow, the breaking of the marriage covenant? If that is the case, then a strong case can be made that abuse is also a breaking of the marriage covenant and, therefore, a legitimate reason for divorce.

We need to also consider what Paul says:

1Co 7:12 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.
1Co 7:13 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. (ESV)

Paul adds another allowance for divorce--an unbelieving spouse. When we consider someone who is abusive, we must also consider that to act consistently in such a manner shows that one is not a believer. Of course, that is when the unbeliever leaves, but it is yet another allowance. It is not a far stretch to allow a believer to leave an abusive, unbelieving spouse.

We also have to consider what marriage is about in the first place. It is supposed to be about love and putting the other first, helping them to become the best they can be. It is even used as an analogy of Christ and the Church, as you know. But an abusive partner is the opposite of those things. An abusive marriage looks nothing like what a marriage is supposed to look like, according to Paul's writings on the matter.

Should we not allow someone to remarry and experience the love of another just because they removed themselves from an abusive situation? I just don't see it.

Matthew 5:32 in the NLT translates it as unfaithfulness rather than sexual immorality but of all the versions I researched, the NLT was the only one I found that used that terminology. At any rate, we also must contend with 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 (NKJV)
Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

Putting everything together it seems that the appropriate course of action when dealing with abuse or other issues is to separate (not divorce) and seek reconciliation. In a separation the couple are still married but living apart and can remain separated indefinitely. While separated, the goal would be to seek out reconciliation to save the marriage and if that includes learning to deal with anger then so be it. Engaging in another relationship while separated would be committing adultery and at that time, the spouse would have legitimate grounds for divorce.

 

[reba]

Nicely said WIP

 

[Papyrus_dust]

Who here has said stay and get beat or killed? no one.. do we put or sex life above the Scriptures they do say what they say..

If we stay in a physically assaultive relatoinship we risk being killed. That's a given. As to who has implied as much, Free and WIP .

Namely by saying in their opinions, we can separate from such a dangerous relationship but not divorce. And seek reconciliation.

As if we're to remain married even separated away from an abusive spouse, but never ever seek out a loving relationship because we have to remain married to that abuser. Giving them then that power to control our life even if we're thousands of miles away. And so that we die unloved in a marriage because we are told we have to stay in a loveless violent marriage to please God who would have seen all that we suffered.
In which case such advice as that would have to show the scripture wherein God commands we remain with an abuser in order to please him in what he instructs concerning a marriage covenant.

In truth a battered relationship isn't a marriage covenant under God's edicts. If someone says, prove it, not a problem. I've not found the scripture that has God telling us, remain in a marriage where you are abused and beaten and made near death by your spouse.

Can anyone?

As to who said we should remain in such a marriage?
WIP says they can find no scriptures that would permit divorce under that dangerous relationship.

It's there. We're not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever. 2 Corinthians 6:14
The scriptures that teach husbands and wives how to treat one another , when disregarded as in spousal abuse, serve remedy for that offensive situation. Because a man who beats his wife is not someone who believes in the scriptures that instruct how to respect his wife. And in one scripture, posted below, warns to obey the teaching that their prayers not be hindered.
A violent man isn't in Christ. That's an unbeliever in the teachings of God and with regard to marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.


Verses = How To Treat Your Wife When You Are Angry With Her

As are there scriptures teaching how men are to treat their wives.
1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

 

[Edward]

If we stay in a physically assaultive relatoinship we risk being killed. That's a given. As to who has implied as much, Free and WIP .

Namely by saying in their opinions, we can separate from such a dangerous relationship but not divorce. And seek reconciliation.

As if we're to remain married even separated away from an abusive spouse, but never ever seek out a loving relationship because we have to remain married to that abuser. Giving them then that power to control our life even if we're thousands of miles away. And so that we die unloved in a marriage because we are told we have to stay in a loveless violent marriage to please God who would have seen all that we suffered.
In which case such advice as that would have to show the scripture wherein God commands we remain with an abuser in order to please him in what he instructs concerning a marriage covenant.

In truth a battered relationship isn't a marriage covenant under God's edicts. If someone says, prove it, not a problem. I've not found the scripture that has God telling us, remain in a marriage where you are abused and beaten and made near death by your spouse.

Can anyone?

As to who said we should remain in such a marriage?
WIP says they can find no scriptures that would permit divorce under that dangerous relationship.

It's there. We're not to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever. 2 Corinthians 6:14
The scriptures that teach husbands and wives how to treat one another , when disregarded as in spousal abuse, serve remedy for that offensive situation. Because a man who beats his wife is not someone who believes in the scriptures that instruct how to respect his wife. And in one scripture, posted below, warns to obey the teaching that their prayers not be hindered.
A violent man isn't in Christ. That's an unbeliever in the teachings of God and with regard to marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:15
But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.


Verses = How To Treat Your Wife When You Are Angry With Her

As are there scriptures teaching how men are to treat their wives.
1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

I agree with you, but you did forget one...

1 Corinthians 7:26-28
26 I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.

27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.../

Technically speaking, our life is not our own, so...abusive or not, honoring the marriage covenant (unto God) is still the preferred path, as far as God is concerned. We are lucky that God understands the carnal nature and is flexible somewhat on it for us in His mercy.

 

[reba]

Twisting the scriptures to have them say what we wish them to say is part of the reason the Church has failed teaching Biblical marriage...
The Church has failed to teach soundly to not be unequally yoked..
To say Free and/or WIP has said stay and be beat or killed is very much a misrepresentation of their postings ..
the OP is about remarriage... after divorce.. The Scriptures are clear.. til we try and wring out of them what we want to hear.

Do i think those who have divorced and remarried should divorce again NO..
Something as simple as Yikes God i missed up Thank you for your Grace.. Should we teach remarriage NO it is not Scriptural

 

[GodsGrace]

While I wish that the Bible dealt with this issue explicitly, it doesn't, just as it doesn't deal with a lot of the Christian life explicitly but rather provides the principles in certain situations that we are to apply to other, unmentioned situations. So, we need to consider the context of what Jesus says:

Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
...
Mat 5:31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (ESV)

First, it is adultery just to lust after a woman. Second, the Jews allowed for divorce for the most trivial of matters. That is the main reason for Jesus addressing the issue. It seems to me that there is more going on here, more depth to the issue, than just a physical act and even just that physical act. Could it be that Jesus is really addressing the breaking of a vow, the breaking of the marriage covenant? If that is the case, then a strong case can be made that abuse is also a breaking of the marriage covenant and, therefore, a legitimate reason for divorce.

We need to also consider what Paul says:

1Co 7:12 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.
1Co 7:13 If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace. (ESV)

Paul adds another allowance for divorce--an unbelieving spouse. When we consider someone who is abusive, we must also consider that to act consistently in such a manner shows that one is not a believer. Of course, that is when the unbeliever leaves, but it is yet another allowance. It is not a far stretch to allow a believer to leave an abusive, unbelieving spouse.

We also have to consider what marriage is about in the first place. It is supposed to be about love and putting the other first, helping them to become the best they can be. It is even used as an analogy of Christ and the Church, as you know. But an abusive partner is the opposite of those things. An abusive marriage looks nothing like what a marriage is supposed to look like, according to Paul's writings on the matter.

Should we not allow someone to remarry and experience the love of another just because they removed themselves from an abusive situation? I just don't see it.

Hi Free,
How do you suppose that Paul added something to what Jesus had said?
I'd like your thought on this. (highlighted above).

 

[GodsGrace]

Matthew 5:32 in the NLT translates it as unfaithfulness rather than sexual immorality but of all the versions I researched, the NLT was the only one I found that used that terminology. At any rate, we also must contend with 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 (NKJV)
Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

Putting everything together it seems that the appropriate course of action when dealing with abuse or other issues is to separate (not divorce) and seek reconciliation. In a separation the couple are still married but living apart and can remain separated indefinitely. While separated, the goal would be to seek out reconciliation to save the marriage and if that includes learning to deal with anger then so be it. Engaging in another relationship while separated would be committing adultery and at that time, the spouse would have legitimate grounds for divorce.

Right WIP.
Marriage is not a contract between two persons.
It's a covenant with God. God was present at the marriage of the two persons.
What God has joined together. let no one put assunder.
Mark 10:9

We will always be married to our first spouse, no matter what happens. Divorce does not exist in Christianity except when one of the two is unfaithful.

I also have a problem with this. What if a husband leaves a wife, a young wife and mother, is she to remain alone forever? If he is an unbelieving husband, she may remarry. Why? Because being an unbeliever he never made a covenant with God anyway.

A marriage is a very specific situation. The RCC allows annulments which means that the marriage never took place to begin with. It is NOT the dissolving of a marriage - the marriage never existed.

If, as reba mentioned, we understood better what marriage really is, perhaps persons would understand better what they're doing and the divorce rate would drop.

As far as husbands beating up their wives:
Does this sound like a covenant type husband? No.
I'd say that there was no marriage to begin with.

It seems to me that this is an important concept to understand.

 

[reba]

1Co_7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

I read this to be freedom.. free from the unfaithful spouse as in free to remarry ...
that is just my opinion

 

[GodsGrace]

1Co_7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

I read this to be freedom.. free from the unfaithful spouse as in free to remarry ...
that is just my opinion

Agreed.
The key words being "under bondage".
Which means that we ARE under bondage in other cases...

 

[WIP]

We should remember that husbands and wives can both be guilty of abuse. When it comes to physical abuse, yes typically the man is most likely the abuser however when it comes to mental or emotional abuse wives can be just as devastating. Unfortunately, I can testify to that from personal experience on both sides of that equation.

 

[WIP]

If we stay in a physically assaultive relatoinship we risk being killed. That's a given. As to who has implied as much, Free and WIP .

I will kindly ask that you refrain from misquoting other members. Here's a reminder from the ToS 2.4.

It is a violation to misquote or misrepresent another member.

 

[GodsGrace]

We should remember that husbands and wives can both be guilty of abuse. When it comes to physical abuse, yes typically the man is most likely the abuser however when it comes to mental or emotional abuse wives can be just as devastating. Unfortunately, I can testify to that from personal experience on both sides of that equation.

Good point.

 

[WIP]

I also have a problem with this. What if a husband leaves a wife, a young wife and mother, is she to remain alone forever? If he is an unbelieving husband, she may remarry. Why? Because being an unbeliever he never made a covenant with God anyway.

This looks like two separate questions.
To the first, Scripture tells us to seek reconciliation. I don't see anywhere where Scripture puts a time limit on that effort. Also, 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 seem to be quite clear.

Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

To the second, who of us can determine if another is a non-believer unless they tell us themselves? If we marry a non-believer, are we not going against 2 Corinthians 6:14?