How free is our will?

[follower of Christ]

I would like to see Follower of Christ and Benoni face off in a 1 on 1 thread named "Who is right." There will be no topic, just the two of them both claiming to be right.

Sorry gent, but Ive given scripture in the matter that prove my assertions.

 

[follower of Christ]

I would like to see Follower of Christ and Benoni face off in a 1 on 1 thread named "Who is right." There will be no topic, just the two of them both claiming to be right.

Seems that we have already reached that point...

Regards

What was arrived at a week ago was a stalemate where one of us is inserting their own thoughts INTO the texts that doesnt support those thoughts.

 

[follower of Christ]

Benoni wrote:
Death: First of all lets stop looking at death and sin as something so terrible negative; if God did not want death, sin etc to happen to His creation, it would of never happened; for He is God.

Please.
That illogical, unscriptural, godless nonsense would mean that when a man rapes a child that God WANTED it to happen.
Where on earth do you people come from ?
If you see rape and murder as anything but negative then you seriously need to have your demon excercised friend.

What I see in this post is a man JUSTIFYING sin (maybe his own even) by claiming God WANTS man TO sin.
That is hardly the God of the scriptures. That is a message satan himself would be preaching.

An by the way, youve just made it to my quotable quotes area of my website again with this one...

 

[follower of Christ]

Show me in God's Word where the spiritually dead can choose God?

Again with the strawmen.
NO ONE is claiming that without Gods drawing a man that ANYONE can come to Him.
Are we done with this point yet ?

Show me in God's Word where man has a freewill.

Easy enough...and with your own word 'free will'....

The 'free will' offering was mentioned a time or two in scripture, so I got to looking to see if this word was presented in any context other than an offering
[quote:16z0isy9]H5071
נדב×â€
nedâbâh
BDB Definition:
1) voluntariness, free-will offering
1a) voluntariness
1b) freewill, voluntary, offering
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5068
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1299a

Oddly there are verses that contain it that show it relating to God....and some also to MAN outside of offerings..

Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
(Psalms 110:3 KJV)

"People shall be WILLING".
Same root word "nedâbâh" that is used for free will offerings in many other verses.
Apparently even OUTSIDE of offerings the word IS USED concerning man.
And what is interesting in the passage above is how the word is used and what the verse says.

A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
(Psalms 110:1-3 KJV)

Just as PAUL shows in Romans 6, we willingly SUBMIT ourselves....
His people WILLINGLY subject themselves to His rule. They dont have to be forced as some falsely preach here.

The word is also used here in reference to GOD whom we KNOW has free will....

I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
(Hosea 14:4 KJV)

In the SAME manner that GOD FREELY loves them MAN can FREELY be willing to subject himself to Gods rule...[/quote:16z0isy9]

 

[follower of Christ]

Did the son or did he not freely return to the father?

While we seemingly dont agree on the details of the story, this point is fairly obviously true in any case.
MAN FREELY came to the Father. The Father didnt have to force him.
Which is the POINT of mans creation...a being that can WILLINGLY come to Him and love Him of its own free will to do so.

And before you say it benoni....we KNOW that this reconciliation MUST be initiated by the Father....so you dont have to REPEAT yourself again about the Father drawing...

 

[Drew]

While we seemingly dont agree on the details of the story,...

As a footnote, I think the prodigal son parable is primarily (although not solely) a parable about God and Israel. The father is God, the younger son is "Israel which goes into exile and then comes back" and the older brother are the scribes and Pharisees that see Jesus' kingdom declaration as scandalous.

But, this is beside the point - I think that all three of us - FoC, FDS, and me - have generally the same take on the matter of "free will".

 

[francisdesales]

As a footnote, I think the prodigal son parable is primarily (although not solely) a parable about God and Israel. The father is God, the younger son is "Israel which goes into exile and then comes back" and the older brother are the scribes and Pharisees that see Jesus' kingdom declaration as scandalous.

I am not sure I agree that this is the "primary" meaning of the parable, given the context of the rest of Luke 15 seems to be more on an individual basis and can refer to anyone personally, not necessarily to a nation or even the "chosen". I don't see the woman finding the coin or the man finding the sheep as necessarily refering to Israel. I am not adverse to your interpretation of the Prodigal Son, of course, but I am not sure Luke's intent was to refer to a calling Israel back, since Luke's audience seems to be more often Gentile.

But, this is beside the point - I think that all three of us - FoC, FDS, and me - have generally the same take on the matter of "free will".

Happily, most Christians believe that God freely gives man the ability to choose or reject God, since love calls for a free will decision. This doesn't mean we can do it alone without grace, unaided by God, though.

Regards

 

[follower of Christ]

While we seemingly dont agree on the details of the story,...

As a footnote, I think the prodigal son parable is primarily (although not solely) a parable about God and Israel.

Honestly, I cant say for certain, as none of us can.
The only thing Im fairly certain of is that it isnt talking about those who come to Christ then turn away/reject Him because there are just too many warnings against that scenario in scripture. If the Prodigal son parable is read that way it seems to demean and contradict all those warnings.
I could very easily live with the idea that its talkin about Israel, tho Id have to look at it again to see if it fits.

The father is God, the younger son is "Israel which goes into exile and then comes back" and the older brother are the scribes and Pharisees that see Jesus' kingdom declaration as scandalous.

Definitely sounds feasible.
Ive always thought that it was about mankind in general. We, as a race, have left the Father as Adam did when he chose to do things his own way, but I can see how it could be Israel as well, as you point out.

But, this is beside the point - I think that all three of us - FoC, FDS, and me - have generally the same take on the matter of "free will".

Honestly, I think most of Christianity believes in mans free will, even if somewhat limited in range.