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Bible Study How is it known that one cannot be saved AFTER death?

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I'm not convinced.
Ecc 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Ecc 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
 
I'll take it a step further and gander that Jesus is unwilling to lose anyone.
Do you think our Gods going to force people that hate him and his ways to suffer in Gods presence for eternity? Or do you think God is going to cast some sort of voodoo spell, or Jedi mind trick to get these people to love him?
 
The topic of the thread is how do Christians know that Jesus is unwilling to forgive and save a soul after death. They make that claim, even though there doesn't seem to be any scripture that explicitly makes that statement.
because the idea of judgment is clearly stated and its says that those that were not found in the book of life were cast into the lake of fire and tormented forever along with the beast ,false prophet .

God would have mentioned a purgatory like temporary gehenna
 
I haven't seen any verses that explicitly state such. Perhaps I missed them. Do you know of any?

I'll add my view to this with the unregarded verses of John 3:16-18.
3:16 we all know it is the other verses that are unknown.

Whoever does not believe in me is already condemned.

As 2 Cor6:2 says, Today is the day of salvation.

To imply that someone has a second chance after death, not only goes against scripture but also deludes the unbeliever with the idea they don't have to decide now.

Please note It is Jesus who say that it is the lack of belief that condemns, not God.
 
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is no second chance whether we be alive at Christ coming or laying dead in the grave. Many teach there is a second chance for those still living when Christ returns, but as we read through these scriptures there is no second chance whether we be alive or dead in the grave. Christ will return and the books will be opened. Now is the day to decide which book you want to be judged out of.
 
Ok. So man is "judged" after death. What happens if, after death, a person says "I'm so sorry. Please forgive me!" Does Jesus say "Too bad. You're too late. You're going to HELL!"?
Yes.
They didn't want to be with Him here on earth, so God won't force them to spend eternity with Him.
 
So Jesus won't forgive after death and sends souls to Hell. That seems contrary to Jesus.
I believe it's entirely possible that Jesus extends mercy and forgiveness even after death which, if true, would seemingly violate a major tenet of many Christians who believe it's either all or nothing at death. That seems extreme to me.
There are no "shades of gray" in God.
 
Is it possible to be forgiven and saved after death?

Well there is that 1 Corinthians 5 chapter. Especially 1-5

5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even [a]named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are [b]puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord [c]Jesus.../

Just exactly what is this talking about anyway? :wink
 
Ok. So man is "judged" after death. What happens if, after death, a person says "I'm so sorry. Please forgive me!" Does Jesus say "Too bad. You're too late. You're going to HELL!"?


For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11




JLB
 
EvolvingChristian
I appreciate your compassionate soul. You remind me of a shepherd who has concern for the flock.

I think that it’s possible that there are multiple perspectives going on. For example, we know that there are evil people who do evil things without remorse or conscience. For example, I know a woman from grade school who was repeatedly raped by her Father and her Uncle as a young child. Her story haunts me, especially the one where they were moving across state lines and they had their way with her multiple times in numerous places. To this day she is not married.

What these men repeatedly did to her is pure evil, and her soul cries out for justice.

There will be a day when Gods righteous judgment will reign and these two men will be held accountable for the harm they did.

Then we have another scenario where a good natured person simply doesn’t buy into “religion” and for whatever reason doesn’t buy into the whole “Jesus” thing, perhaps kinda like my Dad where he saw so much fighting , self righteousness and hypocrisy among “Christians” and it was so ugly and appalling he didn’t want to have anything to do with it.

The best I can do is be the best representation of Christ I can be to win him over. But if he goes to the grave without confessing Jesus as Lord, then the best I can do is pray that his sins are forgiven and ask for continued mercy upon his soul.

Many years ago I was talking with a young man who lost his fiancé tragically and he feared for her soul because she hadn’t confessed Jesus as Lord. At that time I stood firm she was in hell, but tried to say it in a nice way...

I lost my first child at 4 months and because she was not baptized, I struggled with her eternal fate. It was heart wrenching for me not knowing if my beloved daughter may be burning in hell.

At the time I was speaking to the young man who recently lost his fiancé, I must have forgotten about my own previous turmoil I went through through the loss of my daughter, but when God pricked my heart on the matter, I realized how cruel I was. My behavior and words were cruel, heartless and evil.

For anyone who has lost a loved one who never professed Jesus as Lord, this question isn’t about having the right theology. It’s about having compassion for a hurting soul and I’ve come to understand it’s more of a matter of discernment on an individual basis.

As a result, this will more than likely be my last post on the matter because I don’t want to get sucked into a theological difference, and I certainly don’t want to pour salt on a wound to anyone suffering the loss of a loved one and compound that suffering with another.
 
Aside: I believe you go to hell forever assuming you are condemned

I read the answers and didn't see any verses that said how long you go to hell for ... so I could see why EvolvingChristian might still be seeking an iron clad answer. I personally could think of a verse saying we go to hell forever, and therefore maybe there is a possibility we don't.

Anyways, I went to GotQuestions.org and found:

What is ultimate reconciliation?​

at https://www.gotquestions.org/ultimate-reconciliation.html


Interesting, though long article. The highlights were
  • Some including Origen believed in those going to hell get a 'get of of jail free' card. He sited: Matt. 17:11; Acts 3:21; Col. 1:20 and 1 Timothy 2:4 ... This is call "ultimate reconciliation"
  • Universalists believe everyone goes to heaven. (I don't agree with their doctrine, but if heaven is a democracy, I'm voting for this)
  • Augustine (my hero) was against such an idea
  • 2 synods denounced the idea
  • there were 2 verses that put a 'length of sentence' on the judgement to send people to hell: Matt. 5:41 and Matt. 5:46 indicate the eternal fire and ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. That seems to plug the loop hole for me
 
To be blunt, dead is dead. There is no more conscience thought or decision making. Now while we are alive is the time of accepting God's salvation by faith in Christ Jesus as there are no second chances after we die or when after Christ returns.

This body/flesh dies and deteriorates as it turns back to dust while in the ground. The breath/spirit goes back to God who gave it, Ecc 12:7. The soul which makes up the conscious part of ones being is that of thought, action and emotion. The spiritual nature of man regarded as immortal and separable from the body/flesh at death and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.

The soul departs from us when we physically die like that of Rachel in Genesis 35:18 as it is eternal. Exodus 31:14 and Proverbs 11:30 are two examples of people referred to as souls as the human soul is created by God who gave breath to it, Genesis 2:7; Jeremiah 38:16.

The soul can be lost or saved as it belongs to God, Ezekiel 18:4; James 1:21. The soul is the part of the Spiritually born again that is purified and protected by the Holy Spirit and truth, 1 Peter 1:22 and Jesus is the great Shepherd of souls, 1 Peter 2:25.



Ecc 9:5 for the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Dan 12:2 and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
 
I'm not a supporter of soul sleep .

to be absent in body is to be present with the Lord.
Jesus was raised ,he isn't here physically ,but that's a side topic
 
I'm not a supporter of soul sleep .

to be absent in body is to be present with the Lord.
Jesus was raised ,he isn't here physically ,but that's a side topic
I'm not talking about the false teaching of soul sleep as I do not believe in it.
 
...there are no second chances after we die or when after Christ returns.
If you're wrong, then you're a heretic. Frankly, and, with all due respect, I don't believe there is any way for you to KNOW what God and Jesus may or may not do after a person dies and/or after the second coming of Jesus.

Do you have children? Would you permit your naughty child to be condemned to Hell if you had the power to fix them? I certainly believe that God has that power as well as the motivation to fix us.

I'm confident that God didn't reveal every secret of existence in the bible. You know, there can be things that are true, even if it's not explicitly explained in the bible, right?
 
I'm confident that God didn't reveal every secret of existence in the bible. You know, there can be things that are true, even if it's not explicitly explained in the bible, right?
Agreed (Deut. 29:29)
But regarding eternity in hell we have the verse Matthew 25:46 Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.” AMP
 
If you're wrong, then you're a heretic. Frankly, and, with all due respect, I don't believe there is any way for you to KNOW what God and Jesus may or may not do after a person dies and/or after the second coming of Jesus.

Do you have children? Would you permit your naughty child to be condemned to Hell if you had the power to fix them? I certainly believe that God has that power as well as the motivation to fix us.

I'm confident that God didn't reveal every secret of existence in the bible. You know, there can be things that are true, even if it's not explicitly explained in the bible, right?
You are ignoring the "pre-sage" of heaven, the promised land.
If men could be saved after rebelling against God, they would also have been allowed into the promised land.
They weren't.
 
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