Bible Study How is it known that one cannot be saved AFTER death?

[daninthelionsden]

There is at least one precedent in there still being a chance after physical death. After Jesus was crucified and physically died, He brought the Good News to the dead. So, that means there is hope for those that died/die not hearing the Gospel. Pedophilia is attempted spiritual murder. I hope/pray there is mercy for victims no matter the damaged lives they led unto the grave. I do pray for some dead I have known. I don't make a "religion" of it. But, if I happen to think of them, I ask the Lord to show them His mercy.

 

[EvolvingChristian]

Agreed (Deut. 29:29)
But regarding eternity in hell we have the verse Matthew 25:46 Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.” AMP

Thank you. Matthew 25:46 is a sobering, chilling verse.

 

[EvolvingChristian]

If men could be saved after rebelling against God, they would also have been allowed into the promised land.
They weren't.

Fair point. However, it's also possible that they were under extreme demonic influence wherein in Heaven, they would be free from such demonic influence.

I have difficulty reconciling that God deeply loves all yet is willing to let souls be lost for eternity and to SUFFER horribly for eternity.

I can't even imagine allowing my own child to be lost like that so, why would God?

Perhaps it is the naivety in me that wants to believe that all people have Godliness in them and can be saved, even after death. I am hopeful that, somehow, everyone has Godliness within them and that, if freed from demonic influence, can blossom into the follower of Christ that God wants.

I suppose that will remain a mystery, at least for me, until I am (hopefully) with God in Heaven.

 

[EvolvingChristian]

If you're wrong, then you're a heretic.

My apologies for_his_glory as I apparently misunderstood what it means to be a "heretic".

 

[Fastfredy0]

I have difficulty reconciling that God deeply loves all yet is willing to let souls be lost for eternity and to SUFFER horribly for eternity.

Your "difficulty to reconcile" will be determined by your definitions of LOVE, HATE, ALL and "what is God's ultimate purpose" (like, it's not as if God was not able to just skip the fall of Adam and Eve and just start creation with everyone He loves to heaven eternally). I'll stop there.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you're wrong, then you're a heretic. Frankly, and, with all due respect, I don't believe there is any way for you to KNOW what God and Jesus may or may not do after a person dies and/or after the second coming of Jesus.

Do you have children? Would you permit your naughty child to be condemned to Hell if you had the power to fix them? I certainly believe that God has that power as well as the motivation to fix us.

I'm confident that God didn't reveal every secret of existence in the bible. You know, there can be things that are true, even if it's not explicitly explained in the bible, right?

All I can do is give the scriptures for what has already been written as I can not make anyone believe them. I would never ask anyone to believe me, but search the scriptures for themselves.

 

[for_his_glory]

My apologies for_his_glory as I apparently misunderstood what it means to be a "heretic".

Thank you, we are good

 

[EvolvingChristian]

Your "difficulty to reconcile" will be determined by your definitions of LOVE, HATE, ALL and "what is God's ultimate purpose" (like, it's not as if God was not able to just skip the fall of Adam and Eve and just start creation with everyone He loves to heaven eternally). I'll stop there.

I readily confess to not knowing every truth of existence. It must be nice to be all-knowing.

 

[for_his_glory]

ok,but those are quoted by them

only quoting what scripture says

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[for_his_glory]

There is at least one precedent in there still being a chance after physical death. After Jesus was crucified and physically died, He brought the Good News to the dead.

That's what many teach, but there is no truth to it.

Jesus never went down to hell (lower parts of the earth) to preach as scripture says He went to preach to the spirits in prison. When Jesus laid in the tomb for three days his body was dead, but His spirit was very much alive. In 1 Peter 3:19 it says Jesus being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison. The spirits in prison that Jesus went to preach to are those angels that are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Scripture does not say what Jesus preached to them, but some speculate that He was proclaiming to these fallen angels that Satan had no victory over His death. These angels are separate from the third Satan gathered with him as these angels bound in chains kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, Jude 1:5-7.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

He led captivity captive and gave gifts unto men means that those who were a slave to sin are now given the free gift of God's grace through Christ as being the fulfillment of the Temple sacrifices. The lower parts of the earth just means the grave being underground.

These angels that have been bound and chained in prison until the day of judgement, Jesus was making show of them openly, triumphing over them in it, Colossians 2:13-15. This means that those who come to Jesus their sin is blotted out having spoiled these angels (principalities and power) who caused men to sin and that they too will be judged and cast into the lake of fire reserved for Satan and his angels.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

 

[Hopeful]

There is at least one precedent in there still being a chance after physical death. After Jesus was crucified and physically died, He brought the Good News to the dead. So, that means there is hope for those that died/die not hearing the Gospel. Pedophilia is attempted spiritual murder. I hope/pray there is mercy for victims no matter the damaged lives they led unto the grave. I do pray for some dead I have known. I don't make a "religion" of it. But, if I happen to think of them, I ask the Lord to show them His mercy.

You have misunderstood the mention of the dead having the gospel preached to them. (1 Peter 3:18-19)
Those in prison, (dead), had the good news preached to them by the same Spirit that "quickened" our Lord, when they were still alive. (1 Peter 1:10-11)

 

[Hopeful]

Fair point. However, it's also possible that they were under extreme demonic influence wherein in Heaven, they would be free from such demonic influence.

I have difficulty reconciling that God deeply loves all yet is willing to let souls be lost for eternity and to SUFFER horribly for eternity.

I can't even imagine allowing my own child to be lost like that so, why would God?

Perhaps it is the naivety in me that wants to believe that all people have Godliness in them and can be saved, even after death. I am hopeful that, somehow, everyone has Godliness within them and that, if freed from demonic influence, can blossom into the follower of Christ that God wants.

I suppose that will remain a mystery, at least for me, until I am (hopefully) with God in Heaven.

It isn't God's "willingness" that so many reject Him during their time on earth.
God won't force anyone to submit to Him.
Every man gets what he wants in the end.

 

[jasonc]

only quoting what scripture says

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

the resurrection of judgment where a body is given for the eternal place ordered to .
if paul is not here ,where is presently ?

he said absent in body and present to the lord ,no state of non existence .

 

[for_his_glory]

the resurrection of judgment where a body is given for the eternal place ordered to .
if paul is not here ,where is presently ?

he said absent in body and present to the lord ,no state of non existence .

This is my understand about being absent from the body and present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

vs. 1 is speaking about the tabernacle of God that is within us as we are the Temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17, and when we physically die we will have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem
vs. 2 we desire to be in our new home, the New Jerusalem, that will be ushered down from heaven at the end of days, Rev 21
vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10
vs. 4 We are the Temple of God, but yet we do have burdens as we still live in this fleshly body waiting for immortality when Christ returns, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
vs. 5 basic as we have Gods Spirit dwelling in us as we need to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, Galatians 5:16, 17
vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17
vs. 7 we walk by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we seek those things from above and not the things of this world, Colossians 3:1-4
vs. 8 we are confident if we are walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) we are no longer following the lust of the flesh, 1 John 2:16

Absent from the body and present with the Lord means that we are no longer in the flesh, but now walking in the Spirit having fellowship with God while still being here on earth.

 

[jasonc]

This is my understand about being absent from the body and present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

vs. 1 is speaking about the tabernacle of God that is within us as we are the Temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17, and when we physically die we will have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem
vs. 2 we desire to be in our new home, the New Jerusalem, that will be ushered down from heaven at the end of days, Rev 21
vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10
vs. 4 We are the Temple of God, but yet we do have burdens as we still live in this fleshly body waiting for immortality when Christ returns, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
vs. 5 basic as we have Gods Spirit dwelling in us as we need to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, Galatians 5:16, 17
vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17
vs. 7 we walk by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we seek those things from above and not the things of this world, Colossians 3:1-4
vs. 8 we are confident if we are walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) we are no longer following the lust of the flesh, 1 John 2:16

Absent from the body and present with the Lord means that we are no longer in the flesh, but now walking in the Spirit having fellowship with God while still being here on earth.

Jewish thought ,it needs a thread on this ,the body is in the grave but not the soul that is clothed by it ,we are a soul but the body is a layer of clothe .Paul isn't unaware of God but fully able to interact .

 

[Edward]

Well there is that 1 Corinthians 5 chapter. Especially 1-5

5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even [a]named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are [b]puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord [c]Jesus.../

Just exactly what is this talking about anyway?

I got no comments on this earlier post. Perhaps no one saw any relevance in it. But I think there is, or might be.

You see, in verse 5 it speaks about such people be delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh. That sounds like the flesh died. To be destroyed is to die, and yet, Lord, that his spirit (soul?) be saved from destruction.

I heard a sermon on this verse once and he said, we can pray for the dead as in, Lord forgive them for their sins that their soul at least be saved from death. So it makes sense to me, so I'm thinking yes, you can pray that the dead be saved.

We're not supposed to try to talk to the dead or conjure them up, but we can pray for their forgiveness. So I do sometimes. I'm almost positive this was the verse the Pastor was preaching on...almost positive, lol.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jewish thought ,it needs a thread on this ,the body is in the grave but not the soul that is clothed by it ,we are a soul but the body is a layer of clothe .Paul isn't unaware of God but fully able to interact .

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

How does one confess Jesus as Lord and Savior and live in the will of God in the grave. Those who have died rejecting God and His Son Christ Jesus have already condemned themselves for after death comes the judgement (no second chance) and the resurrection of the dead. Some to eternal life and some to damnation, John 5:28, 29.

 

[jasonc]

never said otherwise .just that dead souls don't cease to be .how does sheol having the dead in it ,the graves and the sea have human souls and empty out to be judged ?
sheol is Hades ,not the lake of fire .though similar .

 

[humble soul]

So you're CERTAIN that, people who die as unbelievers or who are unrepentant, are going to Hell. There is no in-between. Ok.

Purgatory

Welcome
To the hotel
Purga Tory
Such a lovely place
Such a lovely place
Plenty of room
At the hotel
Purga Tory

 

[humble soul]

I'm not convinced.

I wasn't trying to convince you