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Bible Study How Many Judgments Are There?

KevinK said:
Rev 20:14 says "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Is this what you're talking about?
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I'm not nearly pretty, so I'm not Kathi but you are in the right ball park. What will help more than anything else is a good Chain Reference Study Bible and a computer copy of the Nave's Topical Bible or a hard copy of the same.
 
NDE aren't much different than visions and dreams.
As Mr. Taylor says, everything has to line up with Scripture or stay away from it.
Such is the importance of studying and knowing God's Word.
Everything we are telling you here, you should study God's Word to see if what we are saying to you is true.
 
It's tricky. I wouldn't even be here (i.e. as a born-again Christian) had I not had an out-of-body experience. Unfortunately, there is a lot of information in OOBs and the related Near Death Experience that is contra to Scripture, and even self-contradictory. Satan is clearly a masterful painter of lies. I see that. But I believe Jesus is also reaching out to selected humans through these experiences. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, and so my task is somehow sorting through it all.

It would be simple to just say "match up to Scripture, and reject the rest". The problem with this, for me, is that my original OOB varied from Scripture. Not just in a peripheral detail, but the core subject of the experience. If this was all an illusion from Satan, he succeeded in nothing but pushing me straight towards the Lord.

Yeah, my life is complicated.
 
There are two judgments; one of the wicked, and one of the righteous. The righteous’ judgment is occurring now as Jesus walks among the candlesticks (Rev 1:20). You can read such judgment described in Revelation Chapters Two and Three, as one condition is commended and another told to repent.

Our judgment is not to see if we qualify because we are saved, our name is written in the Lamb’s book of life, our spiritual walk will have been weighed, and we will be rewarded accordingly. Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

The judgment of the dead at the end of the millennium is as follows. Notice one thing here is that there are two sets of books; one set showing the wicked works of the unrighteous, and the other is the book of life which contains all those names that have believed God. There will be no dead switching their name to be in the book of life at that time.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The idea of soul sleep seems to have been brought into this, and I do not believe in that whatsoever. The body sleeps, and the soul of the wicked goes to hell. Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments.

As for the souls of the righteous I believe they are presently with Jesus just as He promised the thief on the cross (Luke 23:43). Paradise is now up as Paul describes it in 2 Cor 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise.

My thoughts. :)
 
KevinK said:
It's tricky. I wouldn't even be here (i.e. as a born-again Christian) had I not had an out-of-body experience. Unfortunately, there is a lot of information in OOBs and the related Near Death Experience that is contra to Scripture, and even self-contradictory. Satan is clearly a masterful painter of lies. I see that. But I believe Jesus is also reaching out to selected humans through these experiences. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy, and so my task is somehow sorting through it all.

It would be simple to just say "match up to Scripture, and reject the rest". The problem with this, for me, is that my original OOB varied from Scripture. Not just in a peripheral detail, but the core subject of the experience. If this was all an illusion from Satan, he succeeded in nothing but pushing me straight towards the Lord.

Yeah, my life is complicated.
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Praise the Lord, you are saved!
With God's Word in hand, go forward.
There are no scriptural answers for what happened to you.
 
KevinK said:
When Judgement Day occurs, all souls will be judged, and the damned go into the final lake of fire (Gehenna) along with Satan and his demonic minions. In the meantime, when a person dies aren't they "immediately" judged and if damned sent to the current hell (Sheol, also called Hades)? I understand the Bible mentions a first and second death. Does that mean there are also 2 judgments? Is it then possible to fail the first time, but be saved the second and final time? Forgive me if this is a basic question.
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I believe that there is only one judgment, on Judgment Day when Jesus Christ returns. On that day the dead will be resurrected to life and everyone will be judged. Those who put their faith in Jesus Christ will receive eternal life and those who have rejected Him will go to their second death. The second death is called "the second death" simply because it will have been the second time these people have died. They will be resurrected from their first death, but there is no resurrection from the second death.
 
I was just watching an old 700 Club Youtube (no idea how you feel about Pat Robertson). Someone asked a similar question, and he responded (para-phrasing), "Remember the story about the rich man and Lazuras? The rich man was clearly judged and sitting in Hell." So at least one person is right now in Hell. Just one?
 
KevinK said:
I was just watching an old 700 Club Youtube (no idea how you feel about Pat Robertson). Someone asked a similar question, and he responded (para-phrasing), "Remember the story about the rich man and Lazuras? The rich man was clearly judged and sitting in Hell." So at least one person is right now in Hell. Just one?
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Were you asking me?

There are a couple of problems with the statement that there is at least one person in Hell right now.
The first is that the rich man was never said to be in "Hell", but in "Hades". Is Hades the same place as "Hell"? This parable doesn't say that. If Hades is the same place as Hell, why was the rich man sent their BEFORE Judgment Day? Do people go to Hell, get tormented by the fire, AND THEN get resurrected, AND ONLY THEN judged and found guilty of sin? THEN sent BACK to Hell for a second round of eternal torment? That scenario doesn't seem to be accurate according to the Bible.

The second problem is that this story is in a parable. You haven't demonstrated that the point of this parable is a warning about eternal torment in Hell. I don't think that it is.

The third problem is that the torment of the rich man in the parable is never ever said to be Eternal Torment. It isn't eternal.
 
TimothyW said:
Were you asking me?

There are a couple of problems with the statement that there is at least one person in Hell right now.
The first is that the rich man was never said to be in "Hell", but in "Hades". Is Hades the same place as "Hell"? This parable doesn't say that. If Hades is the same place as Hell, why was the rich man sent their BEFORE Judgment Day? Do people go to Hell, get tormented by the fire, AND THEN get resurrected, AND ONLY THEN judged and found guilty of sin? THEN sent BACK to Hell for a second round of eternal torment? That scenario doesn't seem to be accurate according to the Bible.

The second problem is that this story is in a parable. You haven't demonstrated that the point of this parable is a warning about eternal torment in Hell. I don't think that it is.

The third problem is that the torment of the rich man in the parable is never ever said to be Eternal Torment. It isn't eternal.
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I was asking anyone kind enough to respond. I have no position on the Lazuras account as yet, so was asking for input only. I found Mr. Robertson's response interesting. Thank you.
 
turnorburn said:
Say Timothy in your belief in Annihilationism do Satan and his angels escape Gods wrath as well?

tob
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As I do not believe anyone who rejects God escapes His wrath, I do not understand your question.

Can you restate your question?

Do you believe that those who have been destroyed in Hell have escaped God's wrath? Why or why not?
 
turnorburn said:
i realize you don't understand it Timothy its because your clinging to a doctrine that isn't biblical..

tob
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I disagree. Why didn't you answer my question? Have those who have been destroyed in Hell escaped God's wrath?
Perhaps I understand things better than you think I do.
 
Did you know that David said, "I will go to my son in Sheol"? (His boy who had died) And that he said God would be there?

It's
2 Samuel 12:23 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
23 But why should I fast now that he’s dead? Can I bring him back? Someday I’ll go to him, but he won’t come back to me.”
 
KevinK said:
OK, thank you.

SSSoooo...the Second Death...does it hurt? Does it go on hurting?
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According to Scripture it is going to hurt like h _ _ _ :erm The parable of the Rich Man has him hurting pretty badly.It is not going to end.Now if we hurt outselves we know that we can get help or go to an ER or hospital then give you some pain med and there is relief.That is not going to be the case in hell.It is for an eternity.Do you know how long an eternity is?Never ending.But for those going to heaven we will have eternal everlasting ecstacy. :biggrin2
 
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