Bible Study How Many Judgments Are There?

[th1b.taylor]

When people go against what scripture plainly says you have to back out.It is their choice.

I believe you will need to show me that but i do know that the Great Commission directs us to make disciples and Jesus taught us, also, to kick the dust from our sandals as a testimony against those that will not hear and to move towards a more fertile field.

 

[TimothyW]

When people go against what scripture plainly says you have to back out.It is their choice.

Thanks Kathi,
On the other hand, This is a forum where Christians can gather to discuss what scripture says. Of course there are differences of opinion, but we can say what we think the scriptures say and point out when a passage of scripture doesn't support the point another poster is making. I try to do this with gentleness and respect, as per 1 Peter 3:15, and I know that I don't always succeed in my attempt to be gentle and respectful. Where I fail in this, the cause is usually apparent in the post I am replying to. But I am working on being gentle and respectful even to those who insult me. It's very difficult.

 

[Bick]

Quote "When Judgement Day occurs, all souls will be judged, and the damned go into the final lake of fire (Gehenna) along with Satan and his demonic minions. In the meantime, when a person dies aren't they "immediately" judged and if damned sent to the current hell (Sheol, also called Hades)? I understand the Bible mentions a first and second death. Does that mean there are also 2 judgments? Is it then possible to fail the first time, but be saved the second and final time? Forgive me if this is a basic question."

My Reply: Above all else, let us compare Scripture with Scripture. By "Judgment Day", I assume you mean the day when the "rest of the dead" are raised to stand before Christ on His great white throne to judge them according to their deeds (Rev. 20:5, 12,13).

In order to be judged, they must be alive, resurrected, having died once. There, they will be judged righteously by Christ, and anyone whose name is not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire where they die the second time. Notice, these are people, not "disembodied souls or spirits."
(Rev. 20:15).

Also, "Gehenna" is not the lake of fire. It was a place outside the southwest wall of Jerusalem, where the rubbish and offal were tossed. Fires were kept burning to help clear the air of the stench, and burn up the dead bodies of animals and criminals cast there. It was a literal place in Jesus time on the earth, and will be there again outside the restored Jerusalem in the Messianic Kingdom on earth.
He warned his disciples and the multitudes concerning being judged by the council (Sanhedrin) and condemned to Gehenna ("hell"l, in most versions).
See Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:8, 9; 23:15, 33; and Mark 9:43.

I find nowhere in the Scriptures that indivuals will be judged while dead. Indeed! They are dead! Just one judgment for tthose raised to stand at the Great White Throne.

 

[KevinK]

I know that there is a physical place outside Jerusalem named Gehenna. Some people believe that the lake-of-fire (the second Hell) is named after that place. That's how I use the term.

This webpage seems to define the terms of Hell as I use them. http://www.matthewmcgee.org/helwords.html

 

[Edward]

That's a good question brother Kevin. I believe it's pretty much been answered, The White Throne Judgement for the condemned, and the Bema seat Judgment for believers, which will be a rewards judgement. IIRC, there are five crowns that one could receive. I have no idea if I will get one, but I'm with them on casting them to the feet of the Messiah. I think that the real reward is to be able to live in the presence of God for eternity. Every NDE and OOB experience that people give testimony about, they all describe the absolute feeling of total love which envelopes them. This is it, in my opinion! Wow. Who cares about gold or mansions when you have that. It's said to be indescribable.

I haven't read the book or seen the movie about the four year old who had a NDE and went to heaven, but I have watched many of his videos on youtube. I believe this young man and what he experienced. Many do not believe in NDE's because their not in scripture, but, I think they're real. This is just God doing His thing. So He didn't write about it. so what?

OTOH, I think that the enemy also may do things that are similar, and I think we should be careful. Test those Spirits. Test those Spirits, Test those Spirits.

You had a NDE, Kevin? Whoa. Did you do a write up about it here on the forum? I'd like to read it. You could put it in the Testimony section for future reference.

 

[KevinK]

No, I study NDEs and OOBs, but I myself had an out-of-body experience. What in the OT would have been called a "vision". Yes, it changed the direction of my life. There is a problem with my sharing a testimonial here. To be frank and in the simplest terms, it involves reincarnation. The experience makes no sense without it. Is this a completely taboo subject here?

 

[Edward]

I'm not sure. I don't think it is, but even if it is, I believe that if given in the context of a testimony and not of hey lets everybody believe in reincarnation, that it would be ok.

Perhaps a mod could chime in and confirm/deny and give a little guidance here so that the ToS would not be violated?

 

[follower]

When Judgement Day occurs, all souls will be judged, and the damned go into the final lake of fire (Gehenna) along with Satan and his demonic minions. In the meantime, when a person dies aren't they "immediately" judged and if damned sent to the current hell (Sheol, also called Hades)? I understand the Bible mentions a first and second death. Does that mean there are also 2 judgments? Is it then possible to fail the first time, but be saved the second and final time? Forgive me if this is a basic question.

working from last first,
no, if someone fails (is judged), they don't get another change. (some heresies and false religions say there is another hope or change; Yhwh says don't study those, they are false)

those who have died in Christ Jesus, been immersed, buried, made alive in Him, will or may be seen to physically die , but they don't have any worry about the second death. the sinners not forgiven, nor born again, they will die permanently in the second death. (this is basic, clear and simple in and from Scripture alone).

when a person dies they aren't immediately anything, except unable to do or say or think anything (as Scripture says) until resurrected either to eternal life, or certain unchangeable permanent judgment. there is never any kind of re-incarnation. period.

 

[Kathi]

No, I study NDEs and OOBs, but I myself had an out-of-body experience. What in the OT would have been called a "vision". Yes, it changed the direction of my life. There is a problem with my sharing a testimonial here. To be frank and in the simplest terms, it involves reincarnation. The experience makes no sense without it. Is this a completely taboo subject here?

I would consider reincarnation a taboo subject on a Christian messageboard.Reincarnation is not Biblical.

 

[KevinK]

I would consider reincarnation a taboo subject on a Christian messageboard.Reincarnation is not Biblical.

What if, as Edward suggested, it is given as a testimonial with the disclaimer to draw your own conclusions? (Btw, this would be more for you guys, not me. I don't actually like talking about it in detail.)

 

[Kathi]

What if, as Edward suggested, it is given as a testimonial with the disclaimer to draw your own conclusions? (Btw, this would be more for you guys, not me. I don't actually like talking about it in detail.)

That would be up to the other posters and the Mods.I would not get anything from Reincarnation.

 

[follower]

Yhwh never said to get your own conclusions about anything pagan, including reincarnation.

Rather, it is written and stands written forever,
2 Corinthians 10:5 KJV - Casting down imaginations, and every ...
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[rthom7]

Follower is right, if GOD empowers life, and man in His own image, why would GOD empower life in another creation?

Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Only the character wind of man goes up to GOD, other animals go down, ie not recorded....thus there is no moral life in other animals except the human

Shalom

 

[KevinK]

Is Hebrews 9:27 the only verse that directly refutes the concept of reincarnation? Or are there others? Reason I ask is the wording: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment". Why "appointed"? I know it depends on the translation, but my thought is what God wants and what Man delivers can be different (after all, it usually is). Maybe we just fail the appointment. We're supposed to become spiritually pure in one trip, but the species has turned out to be so stubborn we routinely require multiple trips which are not technically legal.

Yes, I know what a stretch that is, but otherwise why was I shown a vision of my reincarnations? Illusion from Satan, OK, but I did not become a follower of Satan afterwards, I renewed and deepened my relationship with Jesus Christ. I was shown the mistakes I've made in previous lives and was being given yet one more chance to correct my failings (which I hope I'm doing).

 

[Tony Hyman]

The first and second deaths have been pointed out by the honourable members here.But at the end of the day after trying to understand , which we are not always permitted to according to God's will "Neither are your ways my ways" Isa 55:8,the book of Revelation may or may not be understandable to our parochial(narrow relatively small) thinking , we can be quite sure that the "wicked" and unbelieving who do not accept Christ will be "vessels of God's wrath" according to Romans 9:22.We see here God giving all a very fair chance to get there act together. "Endured with long suffering" to test our true metal as measured up against His only begotten Son whom He sacrificed for us.

 

[rthom7]

Nicely said Tony many times I find judgement is like an experience benefitting us more than GOD, it tells us we are OK with Him or not OK with Him, and the best kind of judging is done to us while we are still alive....

Notice this visit by GOD....and really isn't judgement about GOD visiting us, to test if we are with Him or not ?

Da 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

When these three men went into the flames, Jesus came and visited them....and they were judged worthy because of their witness...

Mt 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

In this visit by GOD, the man is found speechless, notice this happens before the grand coming of the King....

When you study the Hebrew word "humble" it often comes in a affliction context, because the humble are afflicted because the bad hate seeing good people around and abuse them....such experience we all share and I see them as a visitation by GOD, and these tests are like judgements, the best kind, because we know they are telling us something worthwhile is happening in our life, even if we don't feel that way, often we feel discouraged during affliction.

We often speak of the two great judgements after all mankind is dead or finished, but to be the most important judgements are those done on the living, today, every day....otherwise how else do we know GOD is with us ?

Shalom

 

[Eugene]

There are judgments of the living and the dead. Believers are those alive in Christ who has received Christ as their Savior, and the dead are those who have died in their sin. The bodies of believers and unbelievers (Bodies) sleep in the grave, but they have already been judged as the righteous in Christ Jesus, or those unrighteous destined to appear at the great white throne judgment.

We must distinguish who or what sleeps concerning us. Believers and unbeliever’s bodies go to the grave be it the earth or the sea, and one day they will be raised. The present fate of the dead (Unbelievers) have their spirit in hell awaiting judgment at the great white throne, and believers, those in Christ have their bodies in the grave (asleep) but while absent from their body they (Spirits) are present with the Lord.

The judgment of saints is in present tense and ongoing as Jesus walks among the candlesticks (Churches). We are commended or judged as needful of repentance as we read in Revelation Chapters Two & Three. Judgment begins at the church of God according to our spiritual walk, and when we see Him who died for us, our reward is with Him; well done thou good & faithful servant.

One form of judgment to the believer is chastisement, and any not benefiting of this are not sons. For the believer there is even the sin unto death or destruction that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. No, this is not a second chance of salvation offered after death.

I’ll quit at this point; attention spans seldom live past this point of no return.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[TimothyW]

The present fate of the dead (Unbelievers) have their spirit in hell awaiting judgment at the great white throne...

Why does God send Unbelievers to hell before judgment?
And then why judge them and then just send them back to hell?

 

[Eugene]

Why does God send Unbelievers to hell before judgment?
And then why judge them and then just send them back to hell?

Hi Brother Timothy, I'll just quote the following scripture with the thought that hell is a place for the wicked to be retained until the great white throne. At that time the entirety of it is cast into the Lake of Fire. Could we identify it to be something akin to an accused person being held in a local jail as they are accused or indicted, they then are judged guilty before a judge, and sent to prison. Even their name is reviewed to see if they are in the Book of Life. No they are found to be aliens without papers as it were and deported.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Chopper]

Just a reminder that reincarnation is a forbidden subject for our Forum. Please stop all references to it. Reincarnation, according to the Administration is un-Biblical, therefore must not be presented. Thank You.