How many verses are required to prove a false doctrine?

[Corinth77777]

But some say only faith can is required?

The Faith of Jesus

Either scripture right or scripture is right..

knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The Faith of Jesus is God.
And its God alone who saves


Col 1
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


Ephesians 2

​

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Everything was created through him without him nothing was created

John1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 

[Corinth77777]

The scripture is true, but to say you are led by truth would be something you must think about, because the truth would set you free. Free to grow in the Lord. Yet it seems to me by what you write that you are still in captivity.

"a well without spring" john 6 kjv
......

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Show us a sign all that comes to me the fatger draws






You can't study scriptures through a formula that is incorrect and expect to come our with truth. I

Our=out

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

But the solas are false and opposed by the authority of Christ in His apostolic church!

If any man says you may be justified by “faith alone” let him be anathema!

There’s no “in Catholic Church” alone or “in pope alone”. All authority was given to Christ, not Peter or the pope or any church elder. In fact, what’s really an anathema is the current pope who integrates other false religions into Catholicism, promotes climate change agenda, which is essentially nature worship, and blesses homosexuals, and most Catholics are with him, they are condemning the five solas instead of the current apostasy. If you truly have faith, you’d reject false religions, climate change agenda and homosexuality, and stick to the word of God, even if it would cost you everything you have.

 

[Hopeful 2]

But some say only faith can is required?

Are that "some" walking as Christ walked ?
The term "faith only" only makes sense if said in a discussion about keeping the Law of Moses for salvation.
"Faith only", as opposed to "circumcision, dietary rules, tithing, feast keeping sabbath keeping, etc."
Tragically, some have misused the "faith only" deception to reject repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ to remit past their sins.
But lets not derail the OP...

 

[Corinth77777]

Are that "some" walking as Christ walked ?
The term "faith only" only makes sense if said in a discussion about keeping the Law of Moses for salvation.
"Faith only", as opposed to "circumcision, dietary rules, tithing, feast keeping sabbath keeping, etc."
Tragically, some have misused the "faith only" deception to reject repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ to remit past their sins.
But lets not derail the OP...

Good pts. Which was already discussed long ago, but donadams never responded to.

But the true faith alone is in the Faith of Jesus in Gal 2:16
Because the Faith of Jesus is God, and it is God alone that saves, but the flip side is there is no saving without God.

So as Luther put it: it's faith alone that saves but the faith that saves is never alone.

But I believe Adams is Speaking of the faith that people have, but even that faith is faith in God. Which was given from faith to faith.

So when Donadams speaks He/she has lumped all people into a group that do not believe in part of their Catholic doctrine;if you are not water Baptized you are not save. As opposed to faith toward God who sanctifies the water.

I hope this makes sense...

So the issue from what I see is that one is trusting in a system of doctrine, rather than first having come to believie who Jesus is whereby we recieve the Spirit and the kick off is Life. Being born from above.

I can see because I was once in my own cultic ideals that led me back to a circular arguement but I never understood the meaning of the scriptures just that I could go back to prove my of doctrine which had flaws because they were taken out of the context. So no true foundation.

So the problem is donadams foundation is the Box, the formula created from Catholic doctrine ; as if you are not water baptized you are not saved. Not that she has come to believe who Jesus is with intent to follow. But that salvation is the Box.


11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

.....
I guess what im learning is, because I have nerver been Catholic in the sense of denomination that they believe Peter has something to do with the pope, that all interpretation stems from the pope ...idk

So then I guess that really must be the main focus of discussion. Because this person does not read what we write. They go back to the box and quote scripture without understanding.

 

[donadams]

There’s no “in Catholic Church” alone or “in pope alone”. All authority was given to Christ, not Peter or the pope or any church elder. In fact, what’s really an anathema is the current pope who integrates other false religions into Catholicism, promotes climate change agenda, which is essentially nature worship, and blesses homosexuals, and most Catholics are with him, they are condemning the five solas instead of the current apostasy. If you truly have faith, you’d reject false religions, climate change agenda and homosexuality, and stick to the word of God, even if it would cost you everything you have.

Both are condemned and his validity is in doubt

 

[donadams]

Are that "some" walking as Christ walked ?
The term "faith only" only makes sense if said in a discussion about keeping the Law of Moses for salvation.
"Faith only", as opposed to "circumcision, dietary rules, tithing, feast keeping sabbath keeping, etc."
Tragically, some have misused the "faith only" deception to reject repentance from sin, and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ to remit past their sins.
But lets not derail the OP...

I agree faith and baptism!

 

[donadams]

Acts 1:8 witnesses

A) "It does not suffice to believe. He who believes and is not yet baptized, but is only a Catechumen, has not yet fully acquired salvation." St. Thomas Aquinas

B) "Now, even the Catechumen believes in the Cross of the Lord Jesus, but unless he be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot receive remission of his sins nor the gift of spiritual grace." St. Ambrose

C) "Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified. If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

D)
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE

E) “As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
JUSTIN MARTYR

TERTULLIAN
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).

ORIGEN
“It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism” (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation.

St. AUGUSTINE
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

POPE LEO I
“And because of the transgression of the first man, the whole stock of the human race was tainted; no one can be set free from the state of the old Adam save through Christ’s sacrament of baptism, in which there are no distinctions between the reborn, as the apostle [Paul] says, ‘For as many of you as were baptized in Christ did put on Christ; there is neither Jew nor Greek . . . ‘ [Gal. 3:27–28]” (Letters 15:10[11] [A.D. 445]).

FULGENTIUS OF RUSPE
“From that time at which our Savior said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5], no one can, without the sacrament of baptism, except those who, in the Catholic Church, without baptism, pour out their blood for Christ, receive the kingdom of heaven and life eternal” (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).

Irenaeus
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; INFANTS, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an INFANT for INFANTS, sanctifying INFANTS; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D.215]).

Origen
THE CHURCH RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The APOSTLES, to whom were committed the secrets of divine sacraments, knew there is in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian
As to what pertains to the case of INFANTS: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

 

[Hopeful 2]

I agree faith and baptism!

Faith and baptism, and repentance from sin, and manifesting the life and death of Christ all the time, and reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost, and continued growth in grace and knowledge.
Even "faith alone" comes after hearing.

 

[donadams]

Faith and baptism, and repentance from sin, and manifesting the life and death of Christ all the time, and reception of the gift of the Holy Ghost, and continued growth in grace and knowledge.
Even "faith alone" comes after hearing.

And perseverance to the end in Christ Jn 15:4 Matt 24:13

 

[Hopeful 2]

And perseverance to the end in Christ Jn 15:4 Matt 24:13

Yep.
The devil has convinced many that mere belief that Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected on the third day is enough to guarantee their salvation.
But what did Jesus say ?
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:21-13)
Without a (new) life, void of iniquity, no man has a chance at eternal life.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
donadams, I have shown you that earlier that each of these verses (unless you snuck a new one in there) when read an understood in context of the passage, chapter, book, and/or whole Bible does not prove any of man's works are necessary for salvation. I am not not going through this again.
I will repost what I replied. Please pay attention this time. I wrote this directly towards you, to give an answer. You didn't refute it earlier. Now you're back a few months later trying the same nonsense.


Hey All,
Alright donadams, and everybody else, buckle up; this will be a long one. Let's do some rightly dividing.

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
A disputed passage (not found in some codexes) faith is required for the baptism to mean anything other than getting wet

Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
What do you believe water and the spirit mean? I believe water is the physical birth. The spirit is obviously belief in Jesus. Jesus does not mention any other requirements.

Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
Jesus is talking to His believing disciples. (excluding Judas of course) So I am not sure how you are applying this. Jesus is telling His disciples to live in Him, an He in them. This only requires the faith to believe. We know that this faith comes from God. So not a work. Faith is a gift.

acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
If you believe baptism to be the second work after salvation, I agree. (I know somewhere on your list is going to be speaking, or confession as a work. I have seen lists like this before.) But again we see being born again, of which repentance is a part, comes first. If baptism is required, John 3:16 is not completely able, by itself, to save someone.

acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
You failed to mention verse 36-37.
Acts 8:36-37 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
What did Phillip say the eunuch lacked for the baptism to be effective? The lack of salvation is what hindered the eunuch. "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." Salvation is the requirement for baptism.

acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
In verse 10 Paul calls the voice "Lord." He is obedient to the voice. Paul is a believer at this point. Why be obedient to someone, or something, you don't believe in? Paul is saved, and goes to Damascus as requested. We have salvation (forgiveness)and obedience (repentance), then baptism (confirmation).

rom 10:10 faith & confession
Here we are. Now speaking is a work according to you. I think that is really splitting hairs. If you want to call confession a work of the believer, that's a lame work. You cannot turn the gift of God into a work of mankind. Look at the rest of the chapter.
Righteousness is of God. v3
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Belief in Jesus bestows that righteousness upon us. Righteousness is by faith. v5
The word of faith that Paul preaches is obtained by oral confession of what you believe in your heart; that Jesus is alive. v8-9
Pay very close attention to the end of verse 9.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Salvation is believing in your heart, and confessing your belief orally.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Believing in your heart makes you righteous. Then confession is made unto salvation (You do know that unto is a future tense preposition. It's archaic for until: As in, "until death do us part.") But my point is that you are righteous, which means you have received God's grace, before you can make a cofession. of it.

1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
You have to have charity (the love of God) for faith hope and charity (the gifts of the Holy Spirit) to be effective. v1
The love of God must be in you first.

1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Not sure why this one made your list.
Anathema - let him be accursed
Maranatha - our Lord comes
I think I just got it. Are you saying our love is a work? We soooo disagree. Our love for God is a direct effect of God bestowing His grace upon us through faith in Jesus. Eph. 2:8
The end verse 8, and the next verse, Paul makes it clear that the faith (that delivers the grace) is the gift of God so man cannot boast. Eph. 2:9 Our love is a result of that faith.

Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
We have to have the faith in order to suffer for it. It is a result of salvation; not a cause for it.

2 Timothy 2:12
Right above, in verse 10,
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Salvation is in Christ Jesus. Nothing else is mentioned. Suffering is a result. Verse 12 is talking about the believer enduring. The endurance is proof of their salvation.

1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
1 Thes. 1:3 - All three fruits of the Spirit come through "the church which is in God. They are exhibiting some of the gifts of the Spirit

2 thes 1:4 - Paul is writing about their growing faith v3; and about how even in times of suffering they were faithful and endured it. Of course suffering is a work. But it was not the cause of their salvation. They were saved first; then suffered for being saved.

1 Tim 6:11 - Paul is telling Timothy to run away from temptation and lust. v9-10 What does he call Timothy? Timothy is a "man of God." Only a saved person can exhibit the gifts of the Holy Spirit. None of these are works unto salvation. (Notice the proper usage? Future tense.) The gifts are not even ours.

Col 1:24 sufferings
Paul was made a minister. v23 Saved first.

Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Paul calls Philemon a fellowlaborer. Philemon is saved. His love and faith are fruits of the Holy Spirit

Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Be honest. You didn't look at this verse. You are too smart to not notice the order in which it is written. Christ gives us the ability to believe in Him, and to suffer for Him.

Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
Paul is telling Titus to teach sound doctrine. Why? So that the old men of the church (the elders) will be, among other attributes, sound of faith. Which, of course, is their faith In Jesus. Their gifts, from the Holy Spirit, love and patience, come through it.

James 2:24 faith & works
James is talking to believers. They already have faith. So what, then, are the fundamental works of the believer?
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

We do these four fundamental works so we can grow in grace and the Holy Spirit can work through us.

Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Faith comes first.

Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
John is talking to believers about their works. You didn't read this either. I thought the first one was just a mistake. Not so with this verse. The answer is right in the verse. Jesus is talking about their works as believers. You have to know that. I won't answer you again like this. I will finish the list for the others here. This feeling that I have is like trusting someone with my most prized possession, and finding out they stole it. Never again with you sir. I feel like such an idiot.

Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
The woman represents Israel, her remnant represents those people of Israel who are saved. This description of the rest of the woman's seed clearly identifies believers in Jesus. As Jewish believers, they will keep the commandments, and will have the testimony of Jesus. You cannot have the testimony of Christ, if you don't keep the commandments. Unbelievers do not keep the commandments; nor do they testify in true faith. You have to have faith before you can keep the commandments, or truthfully testify of said faith.

Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Rev 2:19 - As mentioned, you did not read this verse.

Rev 13:10 - This beast makes war with the saints: And he wins. All unbelievers will bow down and worship him. Those who do not will be imprisoned, or killed. John is telling the saints (believers) still alive to have patience and faith. They already have faith in God. Verse 10 is telling them to have faith that God will

Rev 14:2 -
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

I do not see anything remotely relevant to faith or works. I suspect another verse listed but not read.

Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13

Faith, Hope, & Charity!
You don't even have this right. Faith and hope are temporary. They will be replaced with knowledge. We will know God. Faith or hope will not be necessary.

You did not successfully refute anything I wrote earlier. This is each verse you previously listed, and my response to that listing. My conclusion is that you either misread, misunderstood, or outright manipulated the scriptures on purpose to say what it does not mean. Only you know which that is Mr. Adams. I wish you well.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Hopeful 2]

Good pts. Which was already discussed long ago, but donadams never responded to.
But the true faith alone is in the Faith of Jesus in Gal 2:16
Because the Faith of Jesus is God, and it is God alone that saves, but the flip side is there is no saving without God.
So as Luther put it: it's faith alone that saves but the faith that saves is never alone.
But I believe Adams is Speaking of the faith that people have, but even that faith is faith in God. Which was given from faith to faith.

So when Donadams speaks He/she has lumped all people into a group that do not believe in part of their Catholic doctrine; if you are not water Baptized you are not save. As opposed to faith toward God who sanctifies the water.

People without faith in God, and in His Son, don't get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.
The faithless go to great lengths to refute the necessity of baptism.

I hope this makes sense...
So the issue from what I see is that one is trusting in a system of doctrine, rather than first having come to believie who Jesus is whereby we recieve the Spirit and the kick off is Life. Being born from above.

No real believer is so myopic as to believe in God but not believe it is of the utmost importance to obey His commandments.

I can see because I was once in my own cultic ideals that led me back to a circular arguement but I never understood the meaning of the scriptures just that I could go back to prove my of doctrine which had flaws because they were taken out of the context. So no true foundation.
So the problem is donadams foundation is the Box, the formula created from Catholic doctrine ; as if you are not water baptized you are not saved. Not that she has come to believe who Jesus is with intent to follow. But that salvation is the Box.

The "box" contains more than just the belief that Jesus died for our past sins and was raised from the dead.
To believe the above is all that is in the "box", shows unbelief in all the other things that came from God.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I would hate to have a foundation with nothing on it.

I guess what im learning is, because I have nerver been Catholic in the sense of denomination that they believe Peter has something to do with the pope, that all interpretation stems from the pope ...idk

They do have that wrong.

So then I guess that really must be the main focus of discussion. Because this person does not read what we write. They go back to the box and quote scripture without understanding.

Without knowing the context of your conversation with him, I can't comment.

I have found over the years that all false doctrines accommodate sin.
If something you have heard doesn't gender obedience to God, it is not of God.

 

[Corinth77777]

No real believer is so myopic as to believe in God but not believe it is of the utmost importance to obey His commandments.

One can obey out of works, where it makes them partnered with God in regeneration. And we know Salvation(regeneration) is not by works to merrit Salvation.

The "box" contains more than just the belief that Jesus died for our past sins and was raised from the dead.

God can't be confined to a box, because of all the other things He is and can do (etc)that are not in that box.

To believe the above is all that is in the "box", shows unbelief in all the other things that came from God.

I hope that is not all that is in their box, especially when God continues to reveal His word to us.

 

[Hopeful 2]

One can obey out of works, where it makes them partnered with God in regeneration. And we know Salvation(regeneration) is not by works to merrit Salvation.

As I have already discounted the works of the Law spoken against by Paul, your point is moot.
Every gift requires a receiver.
Our submission to God will merit the promises given by the Lord for our compliance.
Do "A", and receive "B".

God can't be confined to a box, because of all the other things He is and can do (etc) that are not in that box.

All of the universe is His box.
He cannot be confined.

I hope that is not all that is in their box, especially when God continues to reveal His word to us.

Who do mean by "their" ?

 

[Josef]

People without faith in God, and in His Son, don't get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin.
The faithless go to great lengths to refute the necessity of baptism.

No real believer is so myopic as to believe in God but not believe it is of the utmost importance to obey His commandments.

The "box" contains more than just the belief that Jesus died for our past sins and was raised from the dead.
To believe the above is all that is in the "box", shows unbelief in all the other things that came from God.

I would hate to have a foundation with nothing on it.

They do have that wrong.

Without knowing the context of your conversation with him, I can't comment.

I have found over the years that all false doctrines accommodate sin.
If something you have heard doesn't gender obedience to God, it is not of God.

Hey All,
You confuse unbelief with necessity. I am myopic enough to believe that salvation is the work of the Lord towards us. I believe what Jesus, Paul, and John said and wrote are true. I do not believe anyone who would try to distort or deny that truth. I can read for myself. And what I read, and what you and donadams write do not match. Who/what should I believe?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[donadams]

Hey All,
You confuse unbelief with necessity. I am myopic enough to believe that salvation is the work of the Lord towards us. I believe what Jesus, Paul, and John said and wrote are true. I do not believe anyone who would try to distort or deny that truth. I can read for myself. And what I read, and what you and donadams write do not match. Who/what should I believe?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Where does it say you can read and make your own doctrine or faith?

Christ established the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

Christians must be taught!

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

 

[Josef]

Where does it say you can read and make your own doctrine or faith?

Christ established the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

Christians must be taught!

Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

I am not going over this again and again.
Here is my challenge to you Mr. Adams.
Since both are necessary, according to you, the order they are expressed is irrelevant. For example if I rearranged the Ten Commandments, the rearrangement would not diminish the importance of each as a part of the whole.

That said, whether the Bible shows the order as repent then baptism, or baptism then repent, if they are equally necessary, the order should not matter.

Show me one verse in which baptism comes before repentance. One verse.

Also, why is baptism completely left out some calls to repentance? Look at the churches in Revelation 2-3. The church of Ephesus for example, is told to ". . . repent and do the first works . . . " Repent is separate from works.

Baptism is a work of obedience after repentance. Ideally one should know and understand why they are doing it. Then baptism has meaning to them. That can take time. In your ideology, a person that would do this is not saved.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hey All,
You confuse unbelief with necessity. I am myopic enough to believe that salvation is the work of the Lord towards us. I believe what Jesus, Paul, and John said and wrote are true. I do not believe anyone who would try to distort or deny that truth. I can read for myself. And what I read, and what you and donadams write do not match. Who/what should I believe?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

Where, in the bible, have you read that either water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins has been done away with, or, was not commanded by Jesus ?
Or is not of faith ?

 

[Josef]

Where, in the bible, have you read that either water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins has been done away with, or, was not commanded by Jesus ?
Or is not of faith ?

Quit distorting what I wrote. Read it again, correct your error, then ask me anything you like. I will answer to what I did write.

And by the way, Jesus doesn't say anything about baptism in his address to the churches in Revelation 2-3. If they were baptized (the first works) without repentance, Jesus is saying it did not count. He tells the church of Ephesus to do the first works. One of the first works is baptism. Only when they truly repent does the baptism mean what it is supposed to mean. Repentance gives baptism meaning.

Again, if both are equally essential to salvation, show me this.
Show me one verse in which baptism comes before repentance. One verse.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz