How Much different?

[Edward]

Hey that was not regular tobacco that the indians smoked.

While much was mixtures of tobacco along with other herbs and so forth...the main ingrediant was in fact tobacco, as far as I know.

 

[Deborah13]

Non alcoholic = wine

Really? And how would grape juice help the mourner?

No I think wine is wine.Her is a definition of old wine and new wine
http://www.localwineevents.com/resources/questions/view/295

I'm talking about in Bible lingo. Not winemaker lingo of today.

6

Summarizing Hastings Dictionary of Christ and the Gospels entry on wine bottles:

In ancient Israel, the grapes were pressed in the winepress and left in the collection vats for a few days. Fermentation starts immediately on pressing, and this allows the first "tumultuous" (gassy) phase to pass. Then the must (fermenting juice) was put in clay jars to be stored, or into wineskins if it was to be transported some distance.

The wineskins were partially tanned goat skins, sewn at the holes where the leg and tail had been. The skins were filled with must (partially fermented wine) in the opening at the neck and then tied it off.

If one puts freshly pressed must directly into the skin and close it off, the tumultuous stage of fermentation would burst the wineskins, but after this stage, the skins have enough stretchiness to handle the rest of the fermentation process. However, skins that have already been used and stretched out ("old wineskins") cannot be used again since they cannot stretch again. If they are used again for holding wine that is still in the process of fermenting ("new wine"), they will burst.

Jesus uses this process for a metaphor in the gospels. So if a scripture says 'new wine' I believe that is unfermented wine, if it says wine it is fermented.

Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

 

[Edward]

Side effect? Problem is the actual active ingredient is usually not known or not easy to isolate

Yeah, right. So one would have to play around with it for oneself to get it right, and that is what I found too complicated. So I set it down. Praise the Lord.

 

[Classik]

Oh, ok. I think I have gist of it now.

Not a lot of difference in my mind. They both are stimulants and whether one wants to admit it or not, There's a certain "high" associated with either. Slightly different of course, but make no mistake, one get's high from smoking cigarettes. Call it what you will, stimulated, relaxing, whatever, it is a "high"

Indians used to smoke tobacco in their teepees and close it all up to sit in the smoke cloud and so forth. It could be discussed all night about teeny details with the pros and cons of either. For instance, cannabis cures many ailments and perhaps even cancer. I do know one thing for sure, it's a very effective muscle relaxer. After I had my accident which injured my back, they had me on pain pills, but they would only do so much and many times I had trouble sleeping. Not so if I would partake of some pot before bed. I slept real good then.

I think Romans 14 has applicability here. The intent of ones heart plays a role here. Is one using it to get high and be worldly? Or for it's medicinal properties? Big difference. I started smoking pot at a very young age. As I aged, I grew out of it, and didn't want to 'get high' anymore. So I quit. Three days later, I had an epileptic seizure. (I've been epileptic since ~age 5) I had heard about it's anti-seizure properties, so knew what happened. I started smoking it again for the extra security of not having a seizure because I drive a lot for work. I had been seizure free for 17 years before this happened, so it was clear that it helped.

I kept smoking it and remained seizure free for another 11 years and began to think...maybe it was a fluke? So again, I quit smoking it. Four days later I had another epileptic seizure. No fluke there. But I really wanted to quit smoking it, it's a young mans vice, I like being clear headed. So the point is, it does have very real medicinal properties. It took quite a bit of fortitude of spirit to lay it down for good at this point. A lot of prayer and being extra careful to not miss any doses of my anti-seizure meds.

There's ways to get the medicinal properties without getting high. Edibles. More or less at least. It still affects you if not done carefully and in the right amounts. But it was too much complication for me, I wanted to quit, and not play games with it.

So is that a sin? (To use it for it's medicinal properties and not to get high?) I don't think so.

What has God said about it? Are there alternatives?

 

[Kathi]

Side effect? Problem is the actual active ingredient is usually not known or not easy to isolate

Yes,cigarettes are a drug.Alot of people who have anxiety smoke.Nicotine alters the serotonin in the brain.It not only helps anxiety but it helps depression.If a person starts taking a medication for depression or anxiety their doctor will often ask if they smoke because that can alter the effects of the medication.

 

[Kathi]

Really? And how would grape juice help the mourner?



I'm talking about in Bible lingo. Not winemaker lingo of today.

6

Summarizing Hastings Dictionary of Christ and the Gospels entry on wine bottles:

In ancient Israel, the grapes were pressed in the winepress and left in the collection vats for a few days. Fermentation starts immediately on pressing, and this allows the first "tumultuous" (gassy) phase to pass. Then the must (fermenting juice) was put in clay jars to be stored, or into wineskins if it was to be transported some distance.

The wineskins were partially tanned goat skins, sewn at the holes where the leg and tail had been. The skins were filled with must (partially fermented wine) in the opening at the neck and then tied it off.

If one puts freshly pressed must directly into the skin and close it off, the tumultuous stage of fermentation would burst the wineskins, but after this stage, the skins have enough stretchiness to handle the rest of the fermentation process. However, skins that have already been used and stretched out ("old wineskins") cannot be used again since they cannot stretch again. If they are used again for holding wine that is still in the process of fermenting ("new wine"), they will burst.

Jesus uses this process for a metaphor in the gospels. So if a scripture says 'new wine' I believe that is unfermented wine, if it says wine it is fermented.

Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Is there scripture saying the difference in the Bible of New wine versus wine?I could not find it.

 

[Obadiah]

Are you not a vessel? Who is speaking of bottles?

Ahhh, you're right. I was misreading what you said.

 

[Deborah13]

Is there scripture saying the difference in the Bible of New wine versus wine?I could not find it.

The best thing is do a word search for 'wine' and 'new wine' and see how they are used.

However, !! I just found a scripture that says this isn't always true, in the scripture!

Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
G1098 = translated "new wine"
γλεῦκος
gleukos
glyoo'-kos
Akin to G1099; sweet wine, that is, (properly) must (fresh juice), but used of the more saccharine (and therefore highly inebriating) fermented wine: - new wine.

In the Matthew verse, there are two separate Greek words used for 'new wine'
G3501 = new
νέος, νεώτερος
neos neōteros
neh'-os, neh-o'-ter-os
A primary word, including the comparative (second form); “new”, that is, (of persons) youthful, or (of things) fresh; figuratively regenerate: - new, young.

G3631 = wine
οἶνος
oinos
oy'-nos
A primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin [H3196]); “wine” (literally or figuratively): - wine.

I think Obadiah mentioned there was at least two words for wine in the scriptures. I think he was probably referring to in the NT, in the Greek.

 

[follower]

Is there scripture saying the difference in the Bible of New wine versus wine?I could not find it.

my memory for "Sipping Saints" by David Wilkerson isn't good enough to bring up the details, but he goes into quite a long explanation from Scripture, and, since/because Yhvh through his ministry healed directly and distinctly thousands of addicts and alcoholics and demon possessed men and women, the book may be worth getting and reading. stick with what is fully in line with Scripture as you search and test and pray.

 

[jasonc]

Yes. There was a different name for non-alcoholic drinks. The word used to describe wine in this scripture always refers to an alcoholic wine.

jews use wine today during the chuppa ceremony. the same style of wine used in communion. some messianic say that jesus used the idea of the chuppa for the communion. I don't.

 

[Kathi]

I think the French drink wine with their evening meals and the children drink it as well.

 

[jasonc]

I think the French drink wine with their evening meals and the children drink it as well.

my grandpa gave me sips of beer as a kid. imagine that and how anti-alcyhol I am.

 

[Kathi]

my grandpa gave me sips of beer as a kid. imagine that and how anti-alcyhol I am.

I used to take sips of my moms beer when she was not looking when I was a kid.I loved it.

 

[Edward]

my grandpa gave me sips of beer as a kid. imagine that and how anti-alcyhol I am.

My aunt used to let me sip her black Label beer when we went to visit at her house. She was careful to not let anyone see to get her in trouble. It was our little secret and she got a big thrill out of it. Me too when I was a kid. I drink maybe 2 or 3 beers a year now.

I little bit of wine is medicinal. Scripture says it's ok also. We're just not supposed to be a drunkard. good advice.

 

[Kathi]

My aunt used to let me sip her black Label beer when we went to visit at her house. She was careful to not let anyone see to get her in trouble. It was our little secret and she got a big thrill out of it. Me too when I was a kid. I drink maybe 2 or 3 beers a year now.

I little bit of wine is medicinal. Scripture says it's ok also. We're just not supposed to be a drunkard. good advice.

I used to like a nice ice cold glass of beer with pizza.

 

[Classik]

My aunt used to let me sip her black Label beer when we went to visit at her house. She was careful to not let anyone see to get her in trouble. It was our little secret and she got a big thrill out of it. Me too when I was a kid. I drink maybe 2 or 3 beers a year now.

I little bit of wine is medicinal. Scripture says it's ok also. We're just not supposed to be a drunkard. good advice.

How many of the prophets drank?

 

[Classik]

Was alcohol served during last supper, Lord's supper or Holy Communion?

 

[Gary]

Follow your convictions.

 

[Obadiah]

How many of the prophets drank?

We are never told how many of them, if any, drank anything with alcohol nor are we told they did not.

 

[Obadiah]

Was alcohol served during last supper, Lord's supper or Holy Communion?

We are not told this. We are only told they drank of "the cup", which implies they drank whatever was in the cup, but we aren't told what it was. Wine is assumed by many because, like in much of Europe today for example, wine was a very common drink with dinner (supper) at the time.