How Much different?

[Classik]

I don't think we have any record specifically stating that in acts wine was used in communion, it can only be inferred since, much like when Jesus served the first communion, wine was the common drink of the day with supper. I've never heard of wine replacing anything else in church history. The very early church always used wine for communion right up into the 1800's That's when a Methodist minister named Dr. Thomas Welch (yep, of Welch's grape juice fame) discovered he could use pasteurization to keep grape juice from fermenting. This was the first time grape juice could be used in place of wine and, really, was the first time it became practical to use grape juice for anything at all since it could now be stored without it fermenting.

Welch, being a Methodist minister and supporter of the American prohibition that was going on at the time was driven by his desire to use something non-alcoholic for communion in his church. So really, the relatively modern idea that grape juice was used by Jesus in the first communion actually was born out of the American prohibition of the 1800's, not out of anything in scripture itself.

Still speculation

 

[Obadiah]

Our Church used grape juice because some people have problems with alcohol.I have had real wine at a couple of other Churches.

I think most protestant churches use grape juice these days just to avoid the condemnation by those who believe all use of alcohol is a sin. (I had a Baptist pastor tell me one time that I was sinning by keeping methanol, a non-drinkable form off alcohol, in my garage for manufacturing biodiesel. He told me if it was necessary to posses "alcohol" to use in the chemical process, and if I valued my relationship with God, I wouldn't make biodiesel!

The Lutheran Church I used to be a member of used wine for communion and even served it to minors during communion. As their youth pastor, I gave wine to teenagers countless times in communion services.

 

[Classik]

Our Church used grape juice because some people have problems with alcohol.I have had real wine at a couple of other Churches.

Can someone decide to use ordinary water?

 

[Obadiah]

Still speculation

No, that's history. Maybe you consider it speculation, but it's still history.

 

[Obadiah]

Can someone decide to use ordinary water?

Or can we just use an empty cup and say there was something in it? Afterall, it's just symbolism, right?

 

[Kathi]

I think most protestant churches use grape juice these days just to avoid the condemnation by those who believe all use of alcohol is a sin. (I had a Baptist pastor tell me one time that I was sinning by keeping methanol, a non-drinkable form off alcohol, in my garage for manufacturing biodiesel. He told me if it was necessary to posses "alcohol" to use in the chemical process, and if I valued my relationship with God, I wouldn't make biodiesel!

The Lutheran Church I used to be a member of used wine for communion and even served it to minors during communion. As their youth pastor, I gave wine to teenagers countless times in communion services.

Yes,the Lutheran Church I used to attend used wine as well.When my daughter was young she used to get all giggly about drinking "real wine".

 

[Classik]

Or can we just use an empty cup and say there was something in it? Afterall, it's just symbolism, right?

I have witnessed people use whatever liquid they desired and whatever bread: biscuit, cake etc.

No specification - just symbol?

 

[Obadiah]

I have witnessed people use whatever liquid they desired and whatever bread: biscuit, cake etc.

No specification - just symbol?

You'd think if the actual drink in the cup was all that critical, Jesus or one of the apostles would have said something about it in scripture, wouldn't you?

 

[Classik]

You'd think if the actual drink in the cup was all that critical, Jesus or one of the apostles would have said something about it in scripture, wouldn't you?

"Do this in remembrance of me" gets me thinking

 

[Obadiah]

"Do this in remembrance of me" gets me thinking

Yeah, I think the "Do this in remembrance of me" part is a lot more important than whether it's wine, grape juice, water, or whatever.

 

[jasonc]

Can you prove my intent?

it takes anti - beer type to know another.

 

[WIP]

"Do this in remembrance of me" gets me thinking

This is partially where my question was leading to. Whatever Jesus and his disciples did at that last supper I can only hope we are still doing today. My thought is, what the early church did has traditionally been taught through the ages and we still do it today.

 

[Willie T]

I recently completed three months of a fairly heavy-duty chemo-type medical treatment....( twice a day for the whole time)
The doctors warned me that people who had previously done this had ALL suffered some pretty severe side effects. They said, besides all the sickness symptoms, I might get suicidal.

I talked about this with a group I attend a book study with at my church. One gal said she felt led to tell me to take communion each time I did the medicine.

I did....... 180 times........ using water (because I can't have any alcohol) and triskets with cheese on them...... besides the communion at church each Sunday.

Like the healed, previously blind man the Sanhedrin questioned........................ All I can tell you is that, despite what the doctors told me was definitely going to happen, I had ZERO side effects.

So, yes, I know there is something powerful in communion.... AND I know it doesn't matter if you use officially authorized "elements".

 

[Deborah13]

I recently completed three months of a fairly heavy-duty chemo-type medical treatment....( twice a day for the whole time)
The doctors warned me that people who had previously done this had ALL suffered some pretty severe side effects. They said, besides all the sickness symptoms, I might get suicidal.

I talked about this with a group I attend a book study with at my church. One gal said she felt led to tell me to take communion each time I did the medicine.

I did....... 180 times........ using water (because I can't have any alcohol) and triskets with cheese on them...... besides the communion at church each Sunday.

Like the healed, previously blind man the Sanhedrin questioned........................ All I can tell you is that, despite what the doctors told me was definitely going to happen, I had ZERO side effects.

So, yes, I know there is something powerful in communion.... AND I know it doesn't matter if you use officially authorized "elements".

KJV
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

I don't limit those words, any type of healing we need He has already provided through His sacrifice for us.
Communion is the remembrance of His body and blood shed spoken of in Isaiah 53.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

It would seem to me that if one receives the Lord's body, not discerning it to be holy, they bring damnation on themselves, then correctly receiving and discerning the Lord's body would have the opposite effect, favor and blessings.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I think most protestant churches use grape juice these days just to avoid the condemnation by those who believe all use of alcohol is a sin. (I had a Baptist pastor tell me one time that I was sinning by keeping methanol, a non-drinkable form off alcohol, in my garage for manufacturing biodiesel. He told me if it was necessary to posses "alcohol" to use in the chemical process, and if I valued my relationship with God, I wouldn't make biodiesel!

The Lutheran Church I used to be a member of used wine for communion and even served it to minors during communion. As their youth pastor, I gave wine to teenagers countless times in communion services.

LOL,
Biodiesel Sinner, shame o' shame! LOL! And you dare to tell this stiff necked Baptist about it! You are a brave man Obadiah.

I am a recovering Alcoholic but if the alcoholic fruit of the vine were used in Communion I would partake and I avoid strong drink like the plague. The trouble in the Church today begins with our lack of faith and I have that. God put me through the wash cycle and now He has built a spiritual hedge around me. I firmly believe my Life Verse, Psalm 23:1 but folks like you and I are a strange breed, my brother. I would that we were more infectious.

 

[th1b.taylor]

KJV
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

I don't limit those words, any type of healing we need He has already provided through His sacrifice for us.
Communion is the remembrance of His body and blood shed spoken of in Isaiah 53.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

It would seem to me that if one receives the Lord's body, not discerning it to be holy, they bring damnation on themselves, then correctly receiving and discerning the Lord's body would have the opposite effect, favor and blessings.

Very powerful words there, Deb. I, too, believe we should allow each person to decide to take or to refuse on their own. If they do so unworthily, it is themselves they condemn and that is, truly, between them and God.

 

[Classik]

in my church there is a strict warning (of encouragement ) never to partake of it if you have searched your heart and you are not qualified (or to be on a safer side lest someone asks me to define 'qualified') - or rather your heart os not right with God.

Very powerful words there, Deb. I, too, believe we should allow each person to decide to take or to refuse on their own. If they do so unworthily, it is themselves they condemn and that is, truly, between them and God.

Very powerful words there, Deb. I, too, believe we should allow each person to decide to take or to refuse on their own. If they do so unworthily, it is themselves they condemn and that is, truly, between them and God.

in my church there is a strict warning (of encouragement ) never to partake of it if you have searched your heart and you are not qualified (or to be on a safer side lest someone asks me to define 'qualified') - or rather your heart is not right with God.

 

[Obadiah]

LOL,
Biodiesel Sinner, shame o' shame! LOL! And you dare to tell this stiff necked Baptist about it! You are a brave man Obadiah.

I am a recovering Alcoholic but if the alcoholic fruit of the vine were used in Communion I would partake and I avoid strong drink like the plague. The trouble in the Church today begins with our lack of faith and I have that. God put me through the wash cycle and now He has built a spiritual hedge around me. I firmly believe my Life Verse, Psalm 23:1 but folks like you and I are a strange breed, my brother. I would that we were more infectious.

LOL! That wasn't aimed at you in any way and I totally forgot you were even a Baptist! I know many Baptists who aren't like this too! :yes

 

[th1b.taylor]

LOL! That wasn't aimed at you in any way and I totally forgot you were even a Baptist! I know many Baptists who aren't like this too! :yes

I didn't think it was aimed at me but it was an open door and I learned, when i was on stage, to never miss using an open door to rag on somebody. People always wondered what was coming out of my mouth next. I did a show for my employer in the mid-eighties that had a lot to do with me getting fired. The owner loved the way I ragged people, right up to the point of the entertainment where he became the target. (Nobody ever acussed me of excessive intellect!)