How to become a submissive wife?

[Cturtle]

This evening my husband said: "You've changed. I can't put my finger on it but I love the changes you've made. I feel like we aren't as stressed." It made me very happy to hear that. We are overcoming a private issue that I would rather not discuss here...let's just say that the lessening of stress has led to significant improvements.

That's awesome to hear. And no details are needed. Just the praise report says it all! Blessings

 

[Mrs. Submission]

This is almost like an accountability and support thread for my new way of approaching my marriage. I appreciate all of the feedback and advice a great deal. I am learning that when I stop making every issue a power struggle and give my husband a chance to make decisions for us, I actually feel a lot calmer and more relaxed. I always assumed that submission meant being anxious of my husband's will.

I have complained about my husband not planning dates or getaways. Now that I am being submissive, I have come to realize that I wasn't giving my husband a chance to plan our special times. My husband says it is fine for me to say that I want to go away for a few days or go to a nice restaurant but I need to leave it up to him after that.

As a compromise, I picked three restaurants that I've been dying to try because they are so romantic. My husband will choose one of them along with the date and time. I won't know where we are going until we get there. Leaving details up to my husband feels strange but also exciting.

 

[Cturtle]

This is almost like an accountability and support thread for my new way of approaching my marriage. I appreciate all of the feedback and advice a great deal. I am learning that when I stop making every issue a power struggle and give my husband a chance to make decisions for us, I actually feel a lot calmer and more relaxed. I always assumed that submission meant being anxious of my husband's will.

I have complained about my husband not planning dates or getaways. Now that I am being submissive, I have come to realize that I wasn't giving my husband a chance to plan our special times. My husband says it is fine for me to say that I want to go away for a few days or go to a nice restaurant but I need to leave it up to him after that. As a compromise,

It's so wonderful to see what God is accomplishing in your life. The peace and healing that He is bringing to you! When we put our trust in our very Loving Savior, obeying Him and His ways, we can see how much He loves us and is concerned with every area of our lives. Desiring a garden of eden type of life to become the normal. As we grow and learn what His love is all about....wow is all i can say. God desires for us to have peace and prosperity in every area of our lives. That's what His grace is all about. His overwhelming desire to treat us as if sin never happened. And once we begin to experience His love and goodness, our goal then becomes to take that goodness and testimony of that goodness to others.
Now this is not to say that we will not be tempted to slip up into our old ways, but if we quickly repent (meaning we turn from our old behavior and ways) we can see the peace and trust and love of God return. And it can be that quick, especially when after we repent, we pick up our love walk right where we left off.
Many blessings to you and your husband!
Gina

 

[Mrs. Submission]

It's so wonderful to see what God is accomplishing in your life. The peace and healing that He is bringing to you! When we put our trust in our very Loving Savior, obeying Him and His ways, we can see how much He loves us and is concerned with every area of our lives. Desiring a garden of eden type of life to become the normal. As we grow and learn what His love is all about....wow is all i can say. God desires for us to have peace and prosperity in every area of our lives. That's what His grace is all about. His overwhelming desire to treat us as if sin never happened. And once we begin to experience His love and goodness, our goal then becomes to take that goodness and testimony of that goodness to others.
Now this is not to say that we will not be tempted to slip up into our old ways, but if we quickly repent (meaning we turn from our old behavior and ways) we can see the peace and trust and love of God return. And it can be that quick, especially when after we repent, we pick up our love walk right where we left off.
Many blessings to you and your husband!
Gina

You are completely right. Turning to God and admitting my weaknesses has led to change in many areas of my life.
Last night, I apologized to my husband for being so disrespectful and argumentative in the past. I told him that he was an angel for being so patient with me. He was very understanding and appreciated my apology.

 

[Mrs. Submission]

I slipped up today.

My husband bought a larger tv for our living room. We have a remote control that came with our digital box and my husband had to reset the remote control for our new tv. He was struggling with online instructions and I kept insisting that he call the cable company for help. My husband told me that he would handle the situation.

When he decided to call the cable company, I was telling my husband how to get through the IVR system. At that point, my husband took the phone away from his ear and stared at me silently. I knew the look on his face meant that he had enough of my attitude so I told him that I was sorry. My husband spoke to a customer service agent and programmed the remote control successfully.

Afterwards, my husband said that he doesn't want to hear any bossy demands while he is handling a situation. He said I needed to trust that he could manage whatever task he was completing. I understood that I hurt my husband's masculine pride and I should have given him his space. My husband was happy that I didn't argue with him or shout like I would have in the past if he had a concern about my behavior.

 

[Cturtle]

Ya know that shows that even though you slipped up, you have grown! And i for one am very proud of you! If i may make a suggestion, when you are feeling the pressure to be bossy, try turning it around and praying that God will guide him and give him wisdom instead. Then you feel as if you have accomplished something and are a part of what is going on, and yet you have not put any pressure on your husband, or created any possible areas for strife to rear it's ugly head.

I on the other hand have been struggling with a lot of things for about a week. Seems like I am getting hit by the enemy at every turn. One of the great things is that God has so graciously blessed me with a phone that has wifi, and i have been able to download a lot of mp3's. And last night God helped me to find an app that allows me to download some podcasts from the preachers that do not have free mp3's available. Well when i feel as if i need to put myself on a time out, i just go to the Word in mp3 form and renew my mind to what Jesus' ways are. What a great and mighty God we serve! Who no matter what the temptation, always gives us a way out.
Blessings my friend!

 

[Mrs. Submission]

Hi all! I hope each of you had a wonderful Valentine's Day. We enjoyed a new restaurant.

I've been reading a book that validates submission in a marriage, even though that was never explicitly stated. Traditional values in a marriage are encouraged in this book and I love the section about dressing to please one's husband. The book is called "Love Italian Style" by Melissa Gorja. I don't watch any of the Real Housewives shows but I like this book.

My husband and I had a conversation about what he would like to see when he gets home in the evenings. He asked me to please stop wearing my bathrobe all the time because it makes me look depressed. I have admittedly been getting lazy about dressing nicely around my husband.

 

[ezra]

Mrs. Submission I am 50 years married ... i believe in the Biblical submissive wife.

I do believe , submission , can be different for different couples... It is not who signs the checks or clicks the computer to pay the bills that makes one the head... Is not who chooses the paint color for the hall... nor who does the dishes or cooking.. Submission is of the heart as unto the Lord.

Welcome to CFnet...

the only thing to add would be as a married couple talk things over and agree before making a decision .the man is the head of the home but the wife is a equal partner . we been married over 30 years i have her take care of the bills . she buys some things i dont think she be bought . times we but heads over it. when i do a marriage ceremony i start of with it takes 3 to make a home man/wife and the good Lord . we dont live in a stone age days of dragging the wife by the hair of the head. us husbands have to submit to the LORD as we are called to be the high priest of the home. i have always said if man has problem with a woman preaching.then more men should step up to the plate and take responsibility instead of playing boss

 

[Mrs. Submission]

the only thing to add would be as a married couple talk things over and agree before making a decision .the man is the head of the home but the wife is a equal partner . we been married over 30 years i have her take care of the bills . she buys some things i dont think she be bought . times we but heads over it. when i do a marriage ceremony i start of with it takes 3 to make a home man/wife and the good Lord . we dont live in a stone age days of dragging the wife by the hair of the head. us husbands have to submit to the LORD as we are called to be the high priest of the home. i have always said if man has problem with a woman preaching.then more men should step up to the plate and take responsibility instead of playing boss

This is very true. I wouldn't stay with my husband if he expected me to have no voice whatsoever in our marriage.
I believe that too many men use the Scripture as an excuse to be domineering.

 

[About the Son of God]

Mrs. S.

Submission, as understood from scripture is a very Christian Salvation oriented concept; yet I see from your profile that it says at the moment that you are not Christian. May I ask, it is your husband who discussed this with you prior to becoming married, or how did you arrive at a desire to become submissive in the first place?

I know you speak of becoming submissive and perhaps that's why we are only seeing your own efforts, but I don't think it ought to be entirely one sided or even heavily biased in one or the other direction; for Christian submission is each to the other although not in the same exact way.

Ephesians 5:21 submit to one another.

Paul proposes submission of the man being manifested by Love for his wife, in particular, this 'love' is not a mere feeling, but actions -- eg: even trivial and menial ones such as washing the other's body ; these reciprocal actions of the body and the head serving each other are absolutely necessary in a covenant relationship;

Ephesians 5:22-32

22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansingb her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”c 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Notice:
Jesus acted out this submission himself (not only using words), in a literal washing of the feet of the Apostles; and he wanted to make sure his Apostles knew that the leaders serving the body is not optional, and the body can not say "no you don't need to serve."; This was so important to Jesus that he threatened Peter with being cut off from all of salvation (eg: equivalent to a divorce threat) if Peter did not allow Jesus to wash his feet -- and likewise, to have Peter and the other Apostles wash *each other's* feet.

John 13:6-8

Jesus made his headship mandatory (Jesus had the final say) in this act of *serving*, because it is vital to the life of the church (or marriage) that there is a head who makes a final decision when a disagreement happens, but it must always be a decision for the good of the spouse and family (I suppose most marriages have children in addition to a spouse); Not necessarily what the spouse desires, but for their good and the good of the marriage.

eg: It's not a power that is supposed to be used for the good of one's self, first ; but for the good of the family as a whole.

When you speak of 'toiletries' and small details like that, I'm finding it hard to grasp that these decisions are on par with the need for submission -- and are more on the level of details where you merely need good communication and contracting. eg: You seem to have a need of gentle reminders of things which you already know, such as budget constraints. But -- I have the impression that you continually think thoughts about 'submission' brought to this level of detail with your spouse, and I'm thinking that depending on the heart of your husband, that may all work out well and good -- but it may also bring about situations which are not good. For, your husband is human and subject to wants and temptations as well. Forcing him to explicitly exercise the power on day to day trivialities can lead to him forgetting the gravity of the power or the ease with which abuse of power can encroach on the heart in little ways. Considering your own vulnerability, because of past abuses -- I am mildly concerned that you may be setting up situations where your own resentment may build up at a later date; and I don't know what foundation you are actually building your marriage on -- if not Christ.

 

[Cturtle]

Hi all! I hope each of you had a wonderful Valentine's Day. We enjoyed a new restaurant.

I've been reading a book that validates submission in a marriage, even though that was never explicitly stated. Traditional values in a marriage are encouraged in this book and I love the section about dressing to please one's husband. The book is called "Love Italian Style" by Melissa Gorja. I don't watch any of the Real Housewives shows but I like this book.

My husband and I had a conversation about what he would like to see when he gets home in the evenings. He asked me to please stop wearing my bathrobe all the time because it makes me look depressed. I have admittedly been getting lazy about dressing nicely around my husband.

It's good to hear that you had a good valentines day! And i agree to stay away from the housewives shows. It's just modern day garbage, and nothing that will help your marriage.
Blessings to you!

 

[Mrs. Submission]

Mrs. S.

Submission, as understood from scripture is a very Christian Salvation oriented concept; yet I see from your profile that it says at the moment that you are not Christian. May I ask, it is your husband who discussed this with you prior to becoming married, or how did you arrive at a desire to become submissive in the first place?

I know you speak of becoming submissive and perhaps that's why we are only seeing your own efforts, but I don't think it ought to be entirely one sided or even heavily biased in one or the other direction; for Christian submission is each to the other although not in the same exact way.

Ephesians 5:21 submit to one another.

Paul proposes submission of the man being manifested by Love for his wife, in particular, this 'love' is not a mere feeling, but actions -- eg: even trivial and menial ones such as washing the other's body ; these reciprocal actions of the body and the head serving each other are absolutely necessary in a covenant relationship;

Ephesians 5:22-32

22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansingb her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”c 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Notice:
Jesus acted out this submission himself (not only using words), in a literal washing of the feet of the Apostles; and he wanted to make sure his Apostles knew that the leaders serving the body is not optional, and the body can not say "no you don't need to serve."; This was so important to Jesus that he threatened Peter with being cut off from all of salvation (eg: equivalent to a divorce threat) if Peter did not allow Jesus to wash his feet -- and likewise, to have Peter and the other Apostles wash *each other's* feet.

John 13:6-8

Jesus made his headship mandatory (Jesus had the final say) in this act of *serving*, because it is vital to the life of the church (or marriage) that there is a head who makes a final decision when a disagreement happens, but it must always be a decision for the good of the spouse and family (I suppose most marriages have children in addition to a spouse); Not necessarily what the spouse desires, but for their good and the good of the marriage.

eg: It's not a power that is supposed to be used for the good of one's self, first ; but for the good of the family as a whole.

When you speak of 'toiletries' and small details like that, I'm finding it hard to grasp that these decisions are on par with the need for submission -- and are more on the level of details where you merely need good communication and contracting. eg: You seem to have a need of gentle reminders of things which you already know, such as budget constraints. But -- I have the impression that you continually think thoughts about 'submission' brought to this level of detail with your spouse, and I'm thinking that depending on the heart of your husband, that may all work out well and good -- but it may also bring about situations which are not good. For, your husband is human and subject to wants and temptations as well. Forcing him to explicitly exercise the power on day to day trivialities can lead to him forgetting the gravity of the power or the ease with which abuse of power can encroach on the heart in little ways. Considering your own vulnerability, because of past abuses -- I am mildly concerned that you may be setting up situations where your own resentment may build up at a later date; and I don't know what foundation you are actually building your marriage on -- if not Christ.

I'm not sure why you believe that I do not understand Biblical submission just because I am not Christian. I was raised Catholic and I learned to read the Bible contextually in the parochial schools I attended. Being baptized into a Christian denomination only makes someone Christian on paper; I do not live by enough tenets of Christianity to identify myself as a true Christian. I can't stand so called Christians who praise God on Sunday and then spend the rest of the week willfully sinning as if God can't see them. There are many habits and behaviors that I have no intention of quitting; I would rather not disrespect Christianity by being disingenuous. I know God hears me when I pray and He has delivered me from the depths of despair. All I had to do was submit to His authority and ask for strength. I should have done that a long time ago.

Now, if you read my first post in this thread, you will see that I decided to become more submissive of my own accord. I made this choice based on wanting to improve my own marriage. I realized that I was modeling the negative behavior my mother exhibited towards my dear old dad. I have no desire to drive away my husband by being an emasculating and disrespectful wife.

Asking my husband's opinion on what you deem to be a small matters has nothing to do with "forcing him to exercise power." We do not force each other to do anything! Being in an abusive relationship in the past helped me distinguish between healthy submission and being subjugated by a domineering pseudo man. Negative experiences can lead to powerful lessons too. I like to ask my husband's opinion about smaller decisions to get into the habit of being submissive to him. Counseling has also helped immensely with the trauma I have survived. My counselor told me that our marriage is unusually strong for such a short time as man and wife, so the comment you made questioning the foundation of my marriage was hurtful to say the least.

My husband treats me like a queen so he is my king. For example, my husband is completely fine with living in an apartment but he knows I would like a house. We will be moving into one this fall. Since we are moving to the country, I would like to take up horseback riding as a new hobby. My husband doesn't see the need for riding horses yet he is still paying for the lessons. He will also be buying me a horse in the future if I find that I enjoy riding them. Today my husband was going to a coffee shop and asked me if I wanted anything; it is the little thoughtful gestures that make a marriage. This is the essence of mutual submission; we seek to serve each other. My husband makes the final decisions but I am able to sway his choices by having a voice as well. My husband is the president and I am the vice president whom he consults with. I doubt that my husband would invest in a home if he didn't care what I wanted. If he can make huge sacrifices like that to make me happy, then I don't see the harm in asking him about buying needless toiletries.

To be honest, I found your post to be rather condescending. It read like "Poor little dumb non Christian woman....she doesn't know what submission means so I have to explain it to her." This is my interpretation and I realize that I could be wrong. As you can see from my responses to other posts on this thread, I am fine with explanations but I talking down to me isn't going to lead to a productive discussion. It is possible for non Christians to have an understanding of Christian concepts if they are open minded. Thanks for your "concern".

 

[About the Son of God]

I'm not sure why you believe that I do not understand Biblical submission just because I am not Christian. I was raised Catholic and I learned to read the Bible contextually in the parochial schools I attended.

I never said " believe [you] don't understand it", by the way... I don't know for sure if you do or don't, but something does seem odd about your approach. I was concerned about the level you are bringing it down to, though, given that you have a "Christian: No", and specifically for the reasons I outlined; Submission in marriage is ultimately submission to Christ, Jesus -- biblically speaking.

There are many habits and behaviors that I have no intention of quitting; I would rather not disrespect Christianity by being disingenuous. I know God hears me when I pray...

eg: and, by definition, I infer that you mean that there are things Christ Jesus asks which you will not submit to ?
(Note: I am not demanding you do so...please don't be insulted. It's not intended to hurt, merely show the discontinuity/disconnect of what you are saying here, vs. the biblical verses I quoted. For Jesus is God, but god isn't always Jesus.)

Now, if you read my first post in this thread, you will see that I decided to become more submissive of my own accord. I made this choice based on wanting to improve my own marriage. I realized that I was modeling the negative behavior my mother exhibited towards my dear old dad. I have no desire to drive away my husband by being an emasculating and disrespectful wife.

OK, I do see that, but my ex wife used to say the exact same things as you outline here, and often did try to be submissive in her *own* way in the early parts of our marriage which she also supposedly did to undo the damage of her mother. So -- understand -- I have a pretty good idea of what you are talking about; but in the end she *drove* me away and did quite a bit of damage.

Asking my husband's opinion on what you deem to be a small matters has nothing to do with "forcing him to exercise power." We do not force each other to do anything!

I'm not so sure that's true, although I can believe that you don't see it that way right now. For, sometimes you have said "asking his opinion" and sometimes you have said something more like "he has the final word.", those are two different things. In normal communications, people do ask each other's opinions -- but in submission, it goes beyond that.

Being in an abusive relationship in the past helped me distinguish between healthy submission and being subjugated by a domineering pseudo man.

Pseudo man ?! That's name calling, and hurtful and un-necessary. If your mother thought your father was a 'pseudo-man' and undermined him, then you still have the 'trigger' of her gun cocked so to speak, even now. A man, sinful or not -- isn't a gook, or animal, or pseudo-man. They may be 'wicked' men, but that changes nothing -- God only made two models as far as I know, male and female. Man and Woman. I even think a gymnandidorf, or castrati, at heart -- is one or the other -- even if they don't know which for sure.... they aren't a pseudo-man in my book.

Negative experiences can lead to powerful lessons too. I like to ask my husband's opinion about smaller decisions to get into the habit of being submissive to him. Counseling has also helped immensely with the trauma I have survived. My counselor told me that our marriage is unusually strong for such a short time as man and wife, so the comment you made questioning the foundation of my marriage was hurtful to say the least.

Yes, and it's that 'unusualness' that is making me uneasy. You are very unusual. Usually when a Catholic leaves their faith, they are more than happy to say they have Faith and "Christian: yes" -- that's not to say I think you're bad, but it's nearly impossible to talk to you at an intelligent level without understanding who you really are -- and I'm not sure that can be accomplished here.

But, please note:
I've experienced a marriage that was supposedly very strong (at first) too. And now all the Councillors in the world can't put it back together again, nor would I try because the more I got to know my ex- the stranger everything became. Perhaps your marriage isn't the same as mine -- but there are some ear marks that are very unsettling about it to me, personally. So, naturally -- I do question your foundation. It's not an insult to you -- but simply me looking back and wondering how yours is different than mine.

My husband treats me like a queen so he is my king. For example, my husband is completely fine with living in an apartment but he knows I would like a house. We will be moving into one this fall. Since we are moving to the country, I would like to take up horseback riding as a new hobby.

That's all wonderful and fine ; in a few years, if your husband looses his job -- and you really don't want to move; but he decides to -- that's when I'll be really interested in hearing what submission means to you. When you two try to negotiate out a major difficulty and it's not HIM who has to make the so called large sacrifice.

To be honest, I found your post to be rather condescending. It read like "Poor little dumb non Christian woman....she doesn't know what submission means so I have to explain it to her." This is my interpretation and I realize that I could be wrong. As you can see from my responses to other posts on this thread, I am fine with explanations but I talking down to me isn't going to lead to a productive discussion. It is possible for non Christians to have an understanding of Christian concepts if they are open minded. Thanks for your "concern".

Sarcasm ? I don't think that profits anyone here.
When two people disagree, or see what appear to be different perspectives, it's easy to take offense and attempt to manipulate someone based on sensitivity to intelligence. Let's Rise above it.

It was also my ex-wife's favorite complaint to say I called her "Dumb", when I never did something like that -- in fact I thought she was more intelligent than most people; at least , I can even say now she was far more calculating than I was; and far better at guile than anyone I have ever met, except her mother.

I don't know what to tell you regarding the toiletries, if it's just communication -- that's great; but if it's submission -- it strikes me to the bone that something is overly dramatic and wrong. Call it gut instinct, or once burned 7x shy. I wish you the best, and I hope you find a deep and abiding relationship with Jesus Christ for the day when the storms inevitably come. Matthew 7:24-27

 

[Cturtle]

I'm not sure why you believe that I do not understand Biblical submission just because I am not Christian. I was raised Catholic and I learned to read the Bible contextually in the parochial schools I attended. Being baptized into a Christian denomination only makes someone Christian on paper; I do not live by enough tenets of Christianity to identify myself as a true Christian. I can't stand so called Christians who praise God on Sunday and then spend the rest of the week willfully sinning as if God can't see them. There are many habits and behaviors that I have no intention of quitting; I would rather not disrespect Christianity by being disingenuous. I know God hears me when I pray and He has delivered me from the depths of despair. All I had to do was submit to His authority and ask for strength. I should have done that a long time ago.

Now, if you read my first post in this thread, you will see that I decided to become more submissive of my own accord. I made this choice based on wanting to improve my own marriage. I realized that I was modeling the negative behavior my mother exhibited towards my dear old dad. I have no desire to drive away my husband by being an emasculating and disrespectful wife.

Asking my husband's opinion on what you deem to be a small matters has nothing to do with "forcing him to exercise power." We do not force each other to do anything! Being in an abusive relationship in the past helped me distinguish between healthy submission and being subjugated by a domineering pseudo man. Negative experiences can lead to powerful lessons too. I like to ask my husband's opinion about smaller decisions to get into the habit of being submissive to him. Counseling has also helped immensely with the trauma I have survived. My counselor told me that our marriage is unusually strong for such a short time as man and wife, so the comment you made questioning the foundation of my marriage was hurtful to say the least.

My husband treats me like a queen so he is my king. For example, my husband is completely fine with living in an apartment but he knows I would like a house. We will be moving into one this fall. Since we are moving to the country, I would like to take up horseback riding as a new hobby. My husband doesn't see the need for riding horses yet he is still paying for the lessons. He will also be buying me a horse in the future if I find that I enjoy riding them. Today my husband was going to a coffee shop and asked me if I wanted anything; it is the little thoughtful gestures that make a marriage. This is the essence of mutual submission; we seek to serve each other. My husband makes the final decisions but I am able to sway his choices by having a voice as well. My husband is the president and I am the vice president whom he consults with. I doubt that my husband would invest in a home if he didn't care what I wanted. If he can make huge sacrifices like that to make me happy, then I don't see the harm in asking him about buying needless toiletries.

To be honest, I found your post to be rather condescending. It read like "Poor little dumb non Christian woman....she doesn't know what submission means so I have to explain it to her." This is my interpretation and I realize that I could be wrong. As you can see from my responses to other posts on this thread, I am fine with explanations but I talking down to me isn't going to lead to a productive discussion. It is possible for non Christians to have an understanding of Christian concepts if they are open minded. Thanks for your "concern".

I am so grateful to hear of the way that your relationship is going so well! It seems to me that God is answering your prayers and teaching you to become the wife that you want to be. In my case my fiancè really is involved in everything that i do as well and does not like to be left out. And we do everything together (well almost). Anyway shopping and discussing the trivial things is just something that we do, and like in your marriage it works for us.
I do have one question regarding your salvation if you will permit me to ask. Have you ever accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior? I am sure with your extensive Bible reading that you have read, and i'm guessing believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, and walked a sinless life just to be crucified and raised from the dead by God. If you have accepted all that then you are saved. I know that you know that Jesus accept you right where you are and works in your life because He loves you and desires for you to have a very good, and pleasurable life. No one on this earth is perfect, and your willingness to submit to His ways in this area, allow for growth in other areas when you are ready.
Many blessings to you
Gina

 

[Mrs. Submission]

I never said " believe [you] don't understand it", by the way... I don't know for sure if you do or don't, but something does seem odd about your approach. I was concerned about the level you are bringing it down to, though, given that you have a "Christian: No", and specifically for the reasons I outlined; Submission in marriage is ultimately submission to Christ, Jesus -- biblically speaking.



eg: and, by definition, I infer that you mean that there are things Christ Jesus asks which you will not submit to ?
(Note: I am not demanding you do so...please don't be insulted. It's not intended to hurt, merely show the discontinuity/disconnect of what you are saying here, vs. the biblical verses I quoted. For Jesus is God, but god isn't always Jesus.)



OK, I do see that, but my ex wife used to say the exact same things as you outline here, and often did try to be submissive in her *own* way in the early parts of our marriage which she also supposedly did to undo the damage of her mother. So -- understand -- I have a pretty good idea of what you are talking about; but in the end she *drove* me away and did quite a bit of damage.



I'm not so sure that's true, although I can believe that you don't see it that way right now. For, sometimes you have said "asking his opinion" and sometimes you have said something more like "he has the final word.", those are two different things. In normal communications, people do ask each other's opinions -- but in submission, it goes beyond that.



Pseudo man ?! That's name calling, and hurtful and un-necessary. If your mother thought your father was a 'pseudo-man' and undermined him, then you still have the 'trigger' of her gun cocked so to speak, even now. A man, sinful or not -- isn't a gook, or animal, or pseudo-man. They may be 'wicked' men, but that changes nothing -- God only made two models as far as I know, male and female. Man and Woman. I even think a gymnandidorf, or castrati, at heart -- is one or the other -- even if they don't know which for sure.... they aren't a pseudo-man in my book.



Yes, and it's that 'unusualness' that is making me uneasy. You are very unusual. Usually when a Catholic leaves their faith, they are more than happy to say they have Faith and "Christian: yes" -- that's not to say I think you're bad, but it's nearly impossible to talk to you at an intelligent level without understanding who you really are -- and I'm not sure that can be accomplished here.

But, please note:
I've experienced a marriage that was supposedly very strong (at first) too. And now all the Councillors in the world can't put it back together again, nor would I try because the more I got to know my ex- the stranger everything became. Perhaps your marriage isn't the same as mine -- but there are some ear marks that are very unsettling about it to me, personally. So, naturally -- I do question your foundation. It's not an insult to you -- but simply me looking back and wondering how yours is different than mine.



That's all wonderful and fine ; in a few years, if your husband looses his job -- and you really don't want to move; but he decides to -- that's when I'll be really interested in hearing what submission means to you. When you two try to negotiate out a major difficulty and it's not HIM who has to make the so called large sacrifice.



Sarcasm ? I don't think that profits anyone here.
When two people disagree, or see what appear to be different perspectives, it's easy to take offense and attempt to manipulate someone based on sensitivity to intelligence. Let's Rise above it.

It was also my ex-wife's favorite complaint to say I called her "Dumb", when I never did something like that -- in fact I thought she was more intelligent than most people; at least , I can even say now she was far more calculating than I was; and far better at guile than anyone I have ever met, except her mother.

I don't know what to tell you regarding the toiletries, if it's just communication -- that's great; but if it's submission -- it strikes me to the bone that something is overly dramatic and wrong. Call it gut instinct, or once burned 7x shy. I wish you the best, and I hope you find a deep and abiding relationship with Jesus Christ for the day when the storms inevitably come. Matthew 7:24-27

Why are you projecting your difficulties with your ex wife on a random stranger?:erm I'm sorry that some things that I said reminded you of her. You are obviously triggered but that isn't my problem. While we're on the subject of your ex wife, if she also thought you were calling her dumb, then clearly I am not the only person who feels that you are condescending. You may not actually say that other people are dumb but you certainly insinuate it with the way that you speak or write in this case.Your ex wife pointed out that you speak to her as if she is stupid and now a stranger on the internet has said the same thing. Maybe it is time for you to think about how you come across to others. I don't know why your marriage ended, but I know that I couldn't stay married to someone who spoke to me as if I didn't have a brain.

When I mentioned a "pseudo man", I was clearly speaking of my abusive ex. I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that I was talking about my father. Any man who abuses women is not a man in my eyes. As I said before, I am very close to my father so there is no way that would call him a "pseudo man". My father did not stop my mother from being physically and emotionally abusive until I showed signs of severe depression. I still love the man dearly because I see that he was also a victim. He was also my silver lining during the terror of being raised by a cruel woman.

I had to laugh when you mentioned being submissive during marital difficulties. I'll have you know that my husband lost his job right after he proposed to me. We eloped because even though we couldn't afford the wedding we wanted, we just wanted to be husband and wife. People were telling me to leave my husband just because he didn't have any money but I stayed and supported him emotionally until he found work again. We slept in a tiny double bed because we couldn't afford a larger one. We had a portable closet because our first apartment had no storage and we couldn't afford to buy furniture. I am glad that we had that challenge before marriage because it only strengthened us as a couple.

Many women laugh at me because we live in an apartment but that doesn't sway me from staying with my husband. Besides, those women are either unhappily single or with men who treat them poorly despite being well off. In only four years of marriage, we have dealt with racist neighbours (We are an interracial couple), financial difficulties, me going back to college, hostile in-laws on both sides, two cancer scares and my PTSD. Through all of those trying times, my husband and I drew closer together. As you can see, we are more than capable of getting through storms that rocked our marriage. We are enjoying far better financial circumstances now and quite frankly, I believe that both of us deserve to enjoy our extra income as we see fit. Moving to a house in the country will give my husband a much shorter commute, which will in turn make him much happier in the long run. It will also be much quieter and my husband has said he is tired of the noisy city we live in.

Please take your obvious grief over your failed marriage elsewhere, instead of projecting your pain on others just because you still have much healing to do. Not every woman who decides to become submissive is automatically following the same ill fated path as your ex wife. Since you are projecting, the only person who is being manipulative here is you. Comparing your marriage to mine just because of some "earmarks" is ridiculous and solves nothing. Judging by your posts directed at me, I don't believe that there is much to be gained from continuing our discussion. Take care!

 

[Mrs. Submission]

I am so grateful to hear of the way that your relationship is going so well! It seems to me that God is answering your prayers and teaching you to become the wife that you want to be. In my case my fiancè really is involved in everything that i do as well and does not like to be left out. And we do everything together (well almost). Anyway shopping and discussing the trivial things is just something that we do, and like in your marriage it works for us.
I do have one question regarding your salvation if you will permit me to ask. Have you ever accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior? I am sure with your extensive Bible reading that you have read, and i'm guessing believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, and walked a sinless life just to be crucified and raised from the dead by God. If you have accepted all that then you are saved. I know that you know that Jesus accept you right where you are and works in your life because He loves you and desires for you to have a very good, and pleasurable life. No one on this earth is perfect, and your willingness to submit to His ways in this area, allow for growth in other areas when you are ready.
Many blessings to you
Gina

Thank you Gina! I truly appreciate your encouraging words and well wishes.

I attended a church service years ago where I was saved. Since I do not accept certain Christian beliefs, I don't feel that I can call myself a Christian without being a hypocrite. Jesus indeed accepts me no matter where I am in my life. I believe that even when I lived a very sinful life, He was still watching over me and waiting for me to come follow Him.

 

[ezra]

I believe that even when I lived a very sinful life, He was still watching over me and waiting for me to come follow Him.

at that he is -- if i may ask what certain Christian beliefs, do you not accept maybe some clarification could be brought out.

 

[Mrs. Submission]

at that he is -- if i may ask what certain Christian beliefs, do you not accept maybe some clarification could be brought out.

I greatly appreciate your offer to clarify.
I am concerned that I may open a can of worms and upset others by bringing up the Christian beliefs that I choose not to follow.
Would you be okay with private messages about this topic?

 

[ezra]

I greatly appreciate your offer to clarify.
I am concerned that I may open a can of worms and upset others by bringing up the Christian beliefs that I choose not to follow.
Would you be okay with private messages about this topic?

sure in many ways i would rather do private message . often may different points of views can be confusing. i have done this b4 with mod in a non christian forum only he claimed to be saved. so yes by all means i promise this to give a bible answer backed by scripture . if what your beliefs are not scriptural correct. i will say so but with RESPECT AND ADULT LIKE RESPONSE :amen

 

[ezra]

after your first reply i will give you a regular email address