BeyondET
Member
Almost but instead backwards, speak and wrath.
John 1:19
Know this, my beloved brothers. But let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow unto anger;
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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How to defend the trinity!
- Thread starter Bible
- Start date
John 1:19
Know this, my beloved brothers. But let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow unto anger;
The Spirit only speaks what He hears. The Spirit of a person acts according to the will the mind of that person.
Those who listen and learn from the Spirit or those who listen and learn from the Father?
It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—
The Spirit of God has "God's" nature. It is not bound to flesh. "Deity"
Singular
For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
If you believe God is a person then the Father has His own Spirit that is not another person.
In the last days I will pour out "My Spirit"....
Jesus- The Spirit of the Sovreign is upon me....(The one who sent Him)
And how can the Father live in the Son doing His work except by His own Spirit?
The Spirit proceeds from the Father in "Jesus's" name. Hence the Spirit of Christ. That Spirit in the believe would convey the will and presence of the Son in the believer from hearing the mind of Christ.
As has been shown the Father speaks of that Spirit as His own. Does Jesus?
The Father-pour out "My Spirit"
The Son-But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
Acts 2 also states the Spirit Jesus sent, (and it was in His name) He received from the Father.
No mention of the Spirit as a person of honor in the God Head.
One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ.
To Him who sits on the throne and to the lamb.
Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God. Not the person of the Spirit as that Spirit is not a person. The Father is that person.
No mention of the Spirit
The only true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.
Why the abilities of the Divine Spirit or eternal Spirit, and there is only one, may seem like an individual, the mind of God, the Father, is that person. Thats why the Honor given in regard to glory, honor and power as in worthy of worship makes no mention of the Spirit in that regard. Jesus prayed to the Father alone. The Spirit, though Mary conceived by that Spirit, is not who Jesus referred to as His God and Father because it is the Spirit of the Father. (God)
You are free to believe what you want but there is only one true God. The Father. It's His fullness that was pleased to dwell in His Firstborn Son. Col 1:19 The eternal life found in the Son is the Father. They are one.
God has tied our life to Jesus as in its through Him we live. So in a manner of speaking one could state My God and My Lord.
Jesus never dies as His Life source is God. Those that are found in Him never die as their life source is His Son by Gods will.
Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
And by His will all will declare Jesus is "Lord". As in one Lord Jesus Christ. What you should see is that God has exalted His Son.
Therefore God, (singular), exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father .(Singular)
In the past God,(singular) spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Speaking of that Son who was as in the nature found in Him. That context.
Col 1:19 - All the fullness of God.
The word was God.
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.
Gods firstborn is before all things. God made the creation through that Son and by that Son and "For" His Son. And as previously stated by Gods will we live through that Son. Hence the Spirit was sent in His name. God has granted His Son to have life in Himself and to give such life to whoever He's pleased to give it to. And we know God, (singular), chose to reconcile all things to "Himself" (singular) through Jesus's blood shed on the cross. Col 1:20
Is Jesus God?
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.
Now how can Jesus be begotten "from" another as a "Son" of that other if He has no beginning? Do you see coeternal or that everything Jesus has including His name He received from the Father? Why does Jesus call that other His God and His Father if He has no beginning as a Firstborn Son does? A beginning before all things.
If Jesus, the Son of Man is stated to have a rational Soul and a human body what part of Him is fully God apart from soul and body? I tell you the Son who was, His spirit, was in the body prepared for Him. And while the body is human, Jesus existed before man was made. But the Father as the only true God has the only Divine Spirit. Therefore the only Divinity read in the Son of Man is the Father living in Him.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I don't think so as the idea is the trinity and relationship of God but it starts with the Spirit then the Son. If your interested, take your time and read through it. I used the understanding given from above, reasoning and the testimony given.
Can a woman be both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time?
If the Son had a beginning, then John 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, Col 1:16-17, and Heb 1:10-12 are false. If all things that ever came into being came into being through the Son, as those passages state, then doesn't that exclude the Son from ever having a beginning?
Out of this only John 1:3 makes anything.
I would state just as its stated "everything" has been put under Him does not mean the one who put everything under Him that "everything" was created through Him does not mean His own Spirit.
Since He is before all things those things were created by God "through", "by" and "for" Him as was testified to. The one Jesus himself calls the only true God and His God and "Father"
So I agree in part.
Begotten from the Father alone before all worlds but not made.
But that doesn’t really address the issue. Several passage clearly state that the Son existed prior to the creation of space and time, that everything that has come into being has come into being through him. That is an exhaustive statement; it precludes the idea that there was a time when the Son did not exist. It would be contradictory then to say that there was a time when the Son did not exist and all those verses would be teaching falsehoods.
It states He is the firstborn of all creation before all things.
It states the "fullness was pleased to dwell in Him" -from the will of another
How can He be a begotten Son of another with a Father if He has no beginning? He has a Father and God.
Jesus calls the Father the only true God. If He always was and always was God how does this believe in one God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit "My Spirit"?
BeyondET
Member
Like an octopus, with three hearts and nine brains.
It states: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." Then it states:
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (ESV)
First, it is very important to note that "For" links to what just preceded it; it is on the basis of verse 14 that Paul then states the things in the verses that follow. The Greek word is hoti and means "because." That is, he is said to be "the firstborn of all creation [because] by him all things were created." Therefore, the Son cannot be included in all things that were created.
Second, we know from Scripture that "firstborn" has the meaning of preeminence and the rights of a son who is firstborn. Based on verses 15-16 it cannot mean that he had a beginning, otherwise we end up in a contradiction. How do we then understand "firstborn" as it relates to the Son? We look to its other uses in Scripture.
Exo 4:22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, Israel is my firstborn son, (ESV)
Psa 89:20 I have found David, my servant; with my holy oil I have anointed him,
...
Psa 89:27 And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth. (ESV)
Jer 31:9 With weeping they shall come, and with pleas for mercy I will lead them back, I will make them walk by brooks of water, in a straight path in which they shall not stumble, for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. (ESV)
We see then that "firstborn" has meanings which are not literal. We know from reading the Bible that the firstborn had certain rights and privileges but we also see in the verses above that it seemed those whom God loved he called his firstborn, even though they were not in any literal sense his firstborn.
The use of firstborn can mean preeminence without the referent having actually been born. Looking at the significance of Psalms 89:27, it is a messianic Psalm where God says of David, "I will make him the firstborn." Here, firstborn clearly means that God will put him in a position of preeminence, "the highest of the kings of the earth." David is here the prototype of the coming Messiah, the "firstborn," and has nothing to do with David's being born or coming into being. This is almost certainly what Paul had in mind, and we see something similar in Romans:
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. (ESV)
Here it means the same--that Jesus would be the head of all believers. In relation to the Son then, we can understand that Col. 1:15 is speaking of Jesus's place of preeminence, his sovereignty, and his lordship, over all creation.
Where is "from the will of another" stated and what do you mean by it?
A son is always the same nature as his father. If Jesus is truly the Son of God, then he must also be God in nature. And if he is God in nature, then he must have all the attributes of God, including absolute existence (eternal preexistence).
None of that precludes Jesus from also being truly God; it can't because so many other passages clearly state he is God.
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. (ESV)
First notice that eternal life is based on knowing both the Father and the Son. In other words, there is no salvation by knowing the Father only. Second, one has to presume unitarianism and disregard the idea that "God" can refer to the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, or the godhead as a whole, in order to use this verse to claim that Jesus isn't God. That assertion is circular. We see Jesus, the God-man who is living in submission to the Father (difference in function, not nature), praying to another divine person. We should fully expect that he would refer to the Father as "the only true God," to agree with the truth of monotheism; but that doesn't preclude himself from also being God.
The Christ is the most exalted not David. God did not make David His Firstborn He appointed His Firstborn to David's line.
And I will appoint him to be my firstborn,
the most exalted of the kings of the earth.
Jesus, God'sChrist, is forever and fulfils Gods promise to David
I will establish his line forever,
his throne as long as the heavens endure.
Jesus is God's only begotten Son from the Father before all things- The Firstborn of all creation
The church holds He was begotten from the Father as a "Son" don't they? Jesus calls God His "Father" doesn't He?
I noted the context correctly. He is the beginning of the creation of God the Father
I disagree. Jesus is the beginning of the resurrection and the firstborn (first) from the dead,
Jesus is the beginning of the creation and the firstborn (first) of all creation.
"Pleased" to dwell -from another
Jesus has the same nature because all the fullness of God was "pleased" to dwell "in" Him. He is not that deity. Who is him? The firstborn of all creation. The Father is that Deity. It doesn't dwell in Him it is Him.
The passages deal with the nature of the Son. Col 1:19 In that context He is God. That does preclude from the singularity of the one true God. In the last days "God" has spoken to us by His Son. "God" has exalted Him to the highest place. To the glory of "God" the Father.
Yes, I note the Father, nothing in regard to the Spirit, as the One true God. And Jesus Christ my Lord.
Nothing in regard to the Spirit
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Jesus is "Lord" and in Him as shown all the fullness of God dwells
Why the need?
Therefore God,(singular), has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
There is only one Jesus calls God and that is the Father. I follow Him. And per God's decree Jesus is Lord.