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How to teach religion.

Free
Let me ask you this.
If somebody asks you if you're religious, what do you answer?

Also, you keep saying that some here are not adhering to the correct definition of Religion.
Why should we?
WE are the Christians. Can we not make up our own definition?
Mr. Webster gets to make it up?

Also, I really would like to see some verses where it's made plain that Jesus wanted to set up His own church. It seems to me that He sent out the Apostles to train people in HOW TO LIVE.

W
 
Free
Let me ask you this.
If somebody asks you if you're religious, what do you answer?
I'm an adherent of the Christian religion, so of course I say yes.

Also, you keep saying that some here are not adhering to the correct definition of Religion.
Why should we?
WE are the Christians. Can we not make up our own definition?
Mr. Webster gets to make it up?
The Webster definition is just one of many. I could pick just about any accepted definition of religion and show that Christianity is a religion. No, Christians shouldn't go around making up their own definitions when accepted definitions will do. It makes it look like we don't know what we're talking about.

Also, I really would like to see some verses where it's made plain that Jesus wanted to set up His own church.
Matt.16:18

It seems to me that He sent out the Apostles to train people in HOW TO LIVE.
Is that the only reason for which he sent out the Apostles? The more important reason is to teach people what to believe. People act based on what they believe and the entire NT is for followers of Christ to know what to believe.
 
Free,
You only have to believe that Jesus will save you. Whatever else you believe is extra.
This is easily shown to be far too simplistic: Who is Jesus? What does it mean to believe he will save me? Why do I need to be saved? What am I being saved from? How will he save me? What happens after I am saved? What about everyone else? Etc., etc., etc.

There are certain things you have to DO
There are certain things you have to NOT DO

AS PART OF THIS RELATIONSHIP.
exactly as you have said.

NOT apart from the relationship - which is religion.

That's the difference I see.
You're using a made up definition of religion again.
 
What "made up" definition are you referring to?
The one I stated earlier, the one that precludes Christianity from being a religion, the one that denies that at its simplest a religion is simply a set of beliefs held by a group of people.

I'm saying that we are in Covenant with the Lord: as a Man and woman in a marriage relationship.

We are joined to Him, and are one Spirit with Him.

I don't perceive or view this relationship with Him as a religion.
What does it mean to be "in covenant with the Lord"? Who is "the Lord"? How do you know you "are joined to Him"? How do you know you "are one Spirit with Him"?

How about you?

Do you see our relationship with the Lord as a religion?

Please share your views about this with us.
Yes, I thought that would have been quite obvious. There are certain beliefs we need to hold to enter into and remain in that relationship. There are certain things we are told to do to keep that relationship healthy.
 
Religion is a DOING.
Christianity is a BEING.
This sounds exactly what the world would have you believe, but I don't believe it's true. Religion is NOT a bad thing. We are feeding the misrepresentation of the word when we perpetuate this. God called it a religion in His Word, yet we are making something bad that He established for His purpose.
I'm saying that we are in Covenant with the Lord: as a Man and woman in a marriage relationship.

And yet there are rules to marriage, right. 1 Peter 3 has some things to say about rules within the Covenant of marriage? So does every wife to her husband - don't cheat on me, don't come home drunk, love me. And we have rules for girls. Honor me.

Strange thing. When I treat my wife of 25 years with honor, when I see to her needs before my own, when I lead my family in Christ.

God has rules too, idols, other gods before Him.

I have fantastic respect for both of you. I have no intent on belabor this point. TCT
 
Free

You're asking both me and JLB some questions up there.
I could answer each one and so could you. Jesus made it simple. We complicate.

Are the answers necessary to be saved?
Is being saved a MENTAL exercise?

NO. No answers necessary.
It's a spiritual exercise. You could be saved and not know even one of those answers.

I grew up Catholic. That's a religion.
I was born again at the age of 28.
Christ Jesus introduced Himself to me.

That's Christianity.

W
 
This sounds exactly what the world would have you believe, but I don't believe it's true. Religion is NOT a bad thing. We are feeding the misrepresentation of the word when we perpetuate this. God called it a religion in His Word, yet we are making something bad that He established for His purpose.

And yet there are rules to marriage, right. 1 Peter 3 has some things to say about rules within the Covenant of marriage? So does every wife to her husband - don't cheat on me, don't come home drunk, love me. And we have rules for girls. Honor me.

Strange thing. When I treat my wife of 25 years with honor, when I see to her needs before my own, when I lead my family in Christ.

God has rules too, idols, other gods before Him.

I have fantastic respect for both of you. I have no intent on belabor this point. TCT

I'm just hoping that you don't think from all this conversation that I'm one of those that believes one does NOTHING after being saved. I do believe you know me enough not to think this.

Just this and then I'll stop.

You honor and see to your wife's needs.
That's Christianity.

Your wife gives you a list of rules you must follow in order to get along with her. You may agree with them, you may not. It's a long list and it has to be kept. You may not even love her or honor her or meet her needs of the heart.
That's Religion.

Wondering
 
wondering I have nothing but respect for you, and I admire your faith. This is very true for JLB as well. This isn't an issue to fall on my sword over. To a great extent, it comes down to symantecs. Whether we call it a religion or not, where we place our faith (to whom it is placed on) is not impacted.

Our lives followed similar paths, because I too was raised Catholic and made the decision to move on in my mid-twenties. I'll just say I relate very well to what you're saying and leave it at that.
 
wondering I have nothing but respect for you, and I admire your faith. This is very true for JLB as well. This isn't an issue to fall on my sword over. To a great extent, it comes down to symantecs. Whether we call it a religion or not, where we place our faith (to whom it is placed on) is not impacted.

Our lives followed similar paths, because I too was raised Catholic and made the decision to move on in my mid-twenties. I'll just say I relate very well to what you're saying and leave it at that.
:hug
 
wondering I have nothing but respect for you, and I admire your faith. This is very true for JLB as well. This isn't an issue to fall on my sword over. To a great extent, it comes down to symantecs. Whether we call it a religion or not, where we place our faith (to whom it is placed on) is not impacted.

Our lives followed similar paths, because I too was raised Catholic and made the decision to move on in my mid-twenties. I'll just say I relate very well to what you're saying and leave it at that.

Agreed. :salute
 
...This isn't an issue to fall on my sword over. To a great extent, it comes down to semantics...
To a great extent, yes. But changing the definition is not without loss.

We have a very long history of church saints writing of their religion and freely using the term to mean our Christian faith. The new definition is a pop definition and, in my mind, it feels an act of disrespect for all those Godly saints before me. So I choose to not change out the historic definition for a pop one.

I have a Christian religion and it will be what guides me to enjoy eternity with my Lord and his saints.
 
The one I stated earlier, the one that precludes Christianity from being a religion, the one that denies that at its simplest a religion is simply a set of beliefs held by a group of people.

Free,

Australia's Macquarie Dictionary's (1997, 3rd ed) definition of religion includes these ingredients: It is 'the quest for the values of the ideal life involving three phases, the ideal, the practices for attaining the values of the ideal, and the theology or world view relating the quest to the environing universe'.

That definition would include theistic and non-theistic religions such as Christianity, Buddhism and Taoism. However, I suggest here that it also could embrace other worldviews or religions, including secularism, rationalism and atheism.

Recently, I wrote an article for an Australian ejournal, On Line Opinion (July 19, 2016), 'Is "no religion" a new religion?' in which I investigated the religion question in Australia's 2016 Census to be taken next Tues, 9 August. You ought to read the attacks by atheists. There were 138 comments that I noted last time I visited. Why don't you join the discussion?

However, the Christian Scriptures do endorse pure Christian religion: 'If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world' (James 1:26-27 ESV). So practical, pure religion is that which demonstrates social effectiveness before God and is uncontaminated with worldliness. Interesting dynamics!

Oz
 
Rather simplistic notion. Seek, Knock, Ask are also biblical mandates. One and done has it's issues too. Matt. 7:7-8 and many other citings.

Why would it be so incomprehensible to get what we need from God such as Seek, knock, and ask. Jesus did say in Matthew 18
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.


Why do people make it sound hard to know what the Spirit is saying because they themselves don't know therefore since they don't know they influence others to think no one can know the mysteries of the kingdom unless they either go to church and follow their ways or subscribe to their own understanding?
Just curious as to why others find it so hard when it is not?
 
Why would it be so incomprehensible to get what we need from God such as Seek, knock, and ask. Jesus did say in Matthew 18
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.


Why do people make it sound hard to know what the Spirit is saying because they themselves don't know therefore since they don't know they influence others to think no one can know the mysteries of the kingdom unless they either go to church and follow their ways or subscribe to their own understanding?
Just curious as to why others find it so hard when it is not?

Taniesh,

The Bible gives us a simple, but profound, reason why it's hard to know if it is the spirit/Spirit:
Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. 2 This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a propheta]">[a] acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. 3 But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here (1 John 4:1-3 (NLT).

False spirits make discernment critical.

Oz
 
Why would it be so incomprehensible to get what we need from God such as Seek, knock, and ask. Jesus did say in Matthew 18
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.


Why do people make it sound hard to know what the Spirit is saying because they themselves don't know therefore since they don't know they influence others to think no one can know the mysteries of the kingdom unless they either go to church and follow their ways or subscribe to their own understanding?
Just curious as to why others find it so hard when it is not?

Actually it's not simple. The Bible is the only religious text I'm aware of that says there is an adversary involved in our hearts that "steals" understanding and that resists giving understandings to the readers. It's quite a unique construct in this direction. Mark 4:15.

It's even more interesting IF you accept the premise personally, other texts will open to understandings, even though they were always there before. A reader is forced to concede to it's terms in order to "get it." Not on everything mind you, but a lot of matters are hidden in this way. The "natural" inclination of the readers is to blow such claims of scripture off as inapplicable to themselves. But if we're "hearing" we'll hear as Jesus dictated to hear in Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4, and those who don't are instantly recognizable as 'non-hearer's/can't see/can't understand, because they have actually rejected Jesus' Words. And those who do reject technically don't hear, see or understand what it's saying.

I could list numerous examples of scriptures where believers actually hear and believe the exact opposite of what the scriptures are saying.

Short lesson. They're like kids. They don't listen. They'll be saved anyway, but, it's an interesting phenomena that "every" believer starts out with.
 
I understand for a new believer it can be hard but for a salted believer should not have that much difficulty once they have a steady faithful relationship with The Holy Spirit the one that will teach you all that Jesus has said.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 
Taniesh,

The Bible gives us a simple, but profound, reason why it's hard to know if it is the spirit/Spirit:


False spirits make discernment critical.

Oz
Truly discernment is extremely critical, it has been my experience that when I discern whether or not a preacher is true they 10 times out of 10 get angry so that is not that hard to discern because if they were of God then they would not get angry. They have gotten offended which that alone told me they are not from God. Anyone who is truly from God would not get angry but actually would be impressed.
 
I understand for a new believer it can be hard but for a salted believer should not have that much difficulty once they have a steady faithful relationship with The Holy Spirit the one that will teach you all that Jesus has said.

It is most likely from observations of reality that not everyone is taught identically. They may land on opposing positions. They may not be taught at all. How might we perceive why this is? We can, on the surface, claim that it's the fault of the people engaging, which is the common way. But there are other factors.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Being brought into "all truth" if we thought about it, would or should mean we are brought into Jesus, completed. I think that happens. But maybe not entirely in this present life, obviously. All truth entails a subset truth for us all currently, that we see/know/hear only in part and as through a glass, darkly. I might even see that any claimant to truth should have this dictate securely fashioned to themselves, particularly in teaching or being taught. I automatically distrust any claimant that says they have "it all" and know "all things" for example. And there are plenty of same. In actuality such claimants would be dishonest by my sight. Christian sects tend to think they are the only sects that have the whole package deal. I don't think that is the case and can't be the case. Such claims have served serious divisions.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Let's go further. IF we are seeking "all truth" which we do seek "in Him" because Jesus Is Truth Himself, do we really want to know all things? For example, what if we did know all things, do any of us really want to know, oh, all thoughts of all people? I personally DO NOT want that level of truth nor do I see a need for it, nor do I in my current state have the capacity to even deal with such a matter. Think about what "all things" consist of. We'd very shortly find the amount of information/data and all the things that come with that completely overwhelming. It would seriously short circuit us in our current state.
1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

There is a very basic lesson, quickly learned in simple contemplation of our Lord:

Matthew 10:24
The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

So we have a couple of basic touchstones.

A. We don't know all things and we see darkly.
B. We are factually in a position of subservience.

Employing reasoning to position B above it could be considered as being in a position of factual subjectivity. I expect that will be our eternal disposition. I personally have no desire to be God, nor do I think that is even possible.

To understand our reality is to understand we are "subjects" planted in "subjectivity." If we are to come to know all things, we know all things vicariously, through God in Christ, as we have need to know or use to know for His Sole Purposes. IF believers don't know, we perhaps are not meant to know.

There is another approach to the above, altogether. Knowledge itself really is NOT the basis of Gods Matters in instruction. God deals primarily and really is only interested in the Eternal Matters. These are not and can not necessarily be hinged to "knowledge."

Paul for example tells us this about a number of matters, and pales them all in comparison to a far far greater matter. If we want to know about God, this is perhaps the only direction available, necessary, and ACCESSIBLE to "all" believers.

1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Paul simplified this even moreso, here:

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Without LOVE, all knowledge is worthless, and faith is vain and self serving babble.

We could lay up the dictates of LOVE above, and find every last sect and every last believer completely lacking following Him in those ways and in many cases, not even a believer whatsoever.

It's very hard to find believers, almost impossible in fact, who "really" believe that LOVE NEVER FAILS or that "LOVE does not keep record of wrongs" or LOVE that does not "count sins against people." (2 Cor. 5:19)

These and many more is why the churches are weak and are failures, divided, bickering, in strife, judgmental continually. They don't and can't seem to even focus on what really matters. And fully deserving so.

So, the question of every day is, WHY? And this, God Himself will teach, if we are led in Love, by Love. They will see HOW to walk that way. How to deploy judgment as a matter of practical function. And "how to perform" what God in Christ has called us into.

No man can teach or give unto another, what only GOD in CHRIST has to give to begin with. It is also almost instantaneously obvious who does NOT walk in His Ways, if we see His Measures.
 
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I understand for a new believer it can be hard but for a salted believer should not have that much difficulty once they have a steady faithful relationship with The Holy Spirit the one that will teach you all that Jesus has said.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
John 16:13 was for the disciples only.

1 John 2:27 must be taken in context. Indeed, if it did, John would be contradicting himself by writing a letter to teach them. Not to mention the rest of the NT books. Looking at the context then, John is speaking of those who don't confess the Son and those who do--the latter have the Father, the former don't (vs. 22-24). He says that those who have the Father have the promise of eternal life (v. 25). In verse 26, John says, "I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you" (ESV). Verse 27 then, is referring to the things he has just written, namely, that there are those who were trying to deceive, those who deny the Son, those who are of the spirit of the antichrist.

John was saying that his readers had no need of anyone to teach them anything different about who Christ was nor the basic message of the gospel. What verse 27 does not say is that all we need is the Holy Spirit to teach us all things. And the rest of the NT attests to this by not only never making such a statement, but by stating that God has appointed teachers (1 Cor. 12:29; Eph. 4:11), by giving one of the qualifications of elders as being able to teach (1 Tim. 3:6; 5:17), and by the example we have of the Apostles in their missionary work, particularly Paul who even went to the same places more than once.

I'm sure others could add to that but suffice it to say that neither of those two passages you gave say that all we need is the Holy Spirit to teach us all things. That simply is an unbiblical position.
 
I can see that no matter what I say fault will be brought up about it. I am not saying we can know all things but we can through the one who knows all things learn more of what we seek. Besides I have heard so many times the old cliche "we won't know till we get there", that is the one of the most illogical thing a person could have conjured. For one what would be the reason to wait '...till we get there' when all we can learn now can be a testimony to others (the lost); another is anyone who truly seeks God would want to know all they can about The Father. You got to be kidding me Free:
John 16:13 was for the disciples only.

I'm sure others could add to that but suffice it to say that neither of those two passages you gave say that all we need is the Holy Spirit to teach us all things. That simply is an unbiblical position.

What Bible do you get your claims from to say that what I have stated is wrong.

Oh yeah by the way, I am not a pew potato neither am I a follower of churches system of man made doctrines.
 
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