How to teach religion.

[OzSpen]

I understand for a new believer it can be hard but for a salted believer should not have that much difficulty once they have a steady faithful relationship with The Holy Spirit the one that will teach you all that Jesus has said.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Taniesh,

If it were easy for a salty, experienced believer, then we wouldn't be hearing so much error proclaimed by the preachers, Bible study leaders and growth group leaders. As a long-term preacher and Bible study leader, my life has been spent in correcting doctrine that was either false or off the mark biblically.

John was addressing a Gnostic heresy in his day, so the need for 1 John 4:1-3 (ESV) and for other passages of correction.

Today we are dealing with false teaching through (these are only a couple of examples):

• The New Hermeneutic;
• Abandonment of conscientious punishment for unbelievers after death;
• Jesus is not God;
  
• Impact of existentialism on the Christian faith;
• Cherry picking Bible verses out of context;
• Health-wealth teaching;
• Junk we hear at Easter about Jesus' resurrection;
  
• Etc.

For those who attend mainline churches, there is the constant battle with denigration of the authority of Scripture, support for same-sex marriage and abortion, and anti-biblical views of people like John Shelby Spong, John Dominic Crossan (of the Jesus Seminar), and Bart Ehrman.

There are many excellent reasons for Christians to be people of biblical discernment in the 21st century.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Truly discernment is extremely critical, it has been my experience that when I discern whether or not a preacher is true they 10 times out of 10 get angry so that is not that hard to discern because if they were of God then they would not get angry. They have gotten offended which that alone told me they are not from God. Anyone who is truly from God would not get angry but actually would be impressed.

Taniesh,

A Christian, including a preacher, becoming angry does not mean he is 'not from God'. In fact Jesus became angry. Your statement needs discernment.

A preacher may get angry, but our job is to show him biblically where he has violated Scripture and to do that with gentleness. I did that a couple of years ago with a preacher who was plagiarising sermons from Sermon Central and presenting them as his own. He was not happy about what I showed him, but it's important to provide the evidence in a sound and gentle way.

Sadly, he continues to steal other sermons through plagiarism, so I don't attend that church.

Oz

 

[Free]

What Bible do you get your claims from to say that what I have stated is wrong.

The Christian Bible, any version. There is a reason that there are rules for proper biblical interpretation--to keep people from falling into error. Among the most basic of rules is that context is king when it comes to understanding a word, verse, or passage. In both the verses you gave, the context clearly shows that neither are saying all we need is the Holy Spirit to teach us all things. Not only that, I have shown that the Bible very strongly implies in various ways that that is not the case. In making such a claim, you are going against Scripture.

If you think I am wrong in my understanding of those passages, then I must be wrong in understanding what the contexts are. If you want to dispute my understanding of those verses, then you need to show how the context supports your position.

Oh yeah by the way, I am not a pew potato neither am I a follower of churches system of man made doctrines.

What man-made doctrines?

 

[Taniesh]

Good luck with your own understanding and without The Holy Spirit that is all you have is your own understanding.

 

[Free]

Good luck with your own understanding and without The Holy Spirit that is all you have is your own understanding.

Please show me where I have even once said that we are to rely on our own understanding only and not also rely on the Holy Spirit.

Are you going to answer my question or show me how I have been wrong in understanding the contexts?

 

[OzSpen]

Good luck with your own understanding and without The Holy Spirit that is all you have is your own understanding.

Taniesh,

Please help me to understand where I stated in any part of my posts that I, a born again Christian, am without the Holy Spirit and am leaning on my understanding.

Where in my post did I say anything that sounded like that?

Would you please back quote so that I know the person to whom you are addressing your post?

Oz

 

[jasonc]

How do you know Jesus DID start a new religion?
He was Jewish. He wasn't happy with how Judaism was treating people. The pharisees and sadducees were religious groups. Was Jesus happy with them?

No. They were keeping the people far away from God. They thought they were better than those who did not belong to their group. They lorded over them, by giving rules and regulations that kept people far away from God.

Rules and regulations do not allow people to experience God. When you got married, did you make up a list of rules and regulations your wife was to follow, or did Love get you through?

You could use Mr. Webser's meaning of "Religion." It's okay.

I said that some kind of institution is necessary to keep Christianity alive. I also said that men ruin institutions. Religion is an institution. Christianity is a life-style.

Jesus didn't tell the Apostles to stay in Jerusalem and open up a church called The Church of Christ.
He sent them out into the world to preach a new way of living. Mathew 28:19-20.

If you could show me where Jesus said to start a new religion, I'd be willing to listen.

I'm not following a religion. I'm following Jesus Christ. He's the only religion I know.

Wondering

Rules? So you didn't just post that man has changed the concept of works to be something odd versus what the early church knew .to wit faith with works ?


Works and the fruits of the Spirit are rules. I know I'm saved because I bear the fruits listed and do the worKS Jesus said. Why do we even argue this stuff?

 

[GodsGrace]

Rules? So you didn't just post that man has changed the concept of works to be something odd versus what the early church knew .to wit faith with works ?


Works and the fruits of the Spirit are rules. I know I'm saved because I bear the fruits listed and do the worKS Jesus said. Why do we even argue this stuff?

Jason,
The rules Jesus set up are good. I'm not arguing those.

What I'm saying is that churches make up many rules and regulations for their attendees to follow.
THESE are the ones that keep us far from God because it becomes uppermost in our minds to follow them instead of listening to God.

I come from a church that had many rules. Including how many hours to sustain from food before receiving Communion. That thought and fear was what I had in mind, instead of actually preparing to receive Communion.
This is all I meant.

We are to follow all of the rules Jesus left us with to the best of our ability. These rules are God given and are for our own benefit and to help us to stay close to God.

Wondering

 

[jasonc]

Jason,
The rules Jesus set up are good. I'm not arguing those.

What I'm saying is that churches make up many rules and regulations for their attendees to follow.
THESE are the ones that keep us far from God because it becomes uppermost in our minds to follow them instead of listening to God.

I come from a church that had many rules. Including how many hours to sustain from food before receiving Communion. That thought and fear was what I had in mind, instead of actually preparing to receive Communion.
This is all I meant.

We are to follow all of the rules Jesus left us with to the best of our ability. These rules are God given and are for our own benefit and to help us to stay close to God.

Wondering

Those are silly rules.

 

[GodsGrace]

Those are silly rules.

Couldn't agree more.

W

 

[OzSpen]

Works and the fruits of the Spirit are rules.

Jason,

Could you be confusing 'works and the fruits' with results and consequences?
The result of planting these custard apple seeds is that there is a natural process that has results (not works),

Those seeds produce custard apple trees as a consequence of planting the seed. We don't work on the seeds to get the trees,

that blossom,

and produce custard apples that ripen and are edible (luscious). If this custard apple seed grows into a mango tree, we know that we didn't plant a custard apple seed (any gardener worth his salt knows the difference between custard apple and mango seeds).

Seems to me that you could have confused works with results.

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi OzSpen

What a great explanation!

I used to teach kids about how an apple tree must produce apples, or there's something wrong - disease, no water, etc. and compare that to the love of God planted in our hearts - love produces good fruit.

Wish I had thought of the entire process as above.

Wondering

 

[OzSpen]

Hi OzSpen

What a great explanation!

I used to teach kids about how an apple tree must produce apples, or there's something wrong - disease, no water, etc. and compare that to the love of God planted in our hearts - love produces good fruit.

Wish I had thought of the entire process as above.

Wondering

Thanks Wondering for your encouragement.

You are correct that the result of the love of God in our inner being is good fruit. In the Americas, the custard apple is called a sugar apple.

The key is that the product (faith) must be accompanied by good works to demonstrate that faith. Otherwise, the faith is useless, according to James.

This year I've been a guest preacher at a church and I've been working my way through the Book of James in expositions. Here is a link to a couple sermons on faith and good works that I uploaded to my homepage at the weekend:

• James 2:14-20, Faith and works, a compulsory combination

• James 2:21-26 (ESV): It’s true you can be justified by works.
  [where I used the custard apple example]

In Christ,
Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks Wondering for your encouragement.

You are correct that the result of the love of God in our inner being is good fruit. In the Americas, the custard apple is called a sugar apple.

The key is that the product (faith) must be accompanied by good works to demonstrate that faith. Otherwise, the faith is useless, according to James.

This year I've been a guest preacher at a church and I've been working my way through the Book of James in expositions. Here is a link to a couple sermons on faith and good works that I uploaded to my homepage at the weekend:

• James 2:14-20, Faith and works, a compulsory combination

• James 2:21-26 (ESV): It’s true you can be justified by works.
  [where I used the custard apple example]

In Christ,
Oz

Thanks for posting.
Will read.

W

 

[jasonc]

Galatians 5 and James ,are they a dressing the same thing?

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have tried to ignore this string but every time I see it the Spirit troubles me! There was religion before God stepped in and sent His Son, Jesus, so why in the name of anything will you teach Religion? Any Religion will gain any man, woman, or child entry into Hell to await the
Great White Throne Judgement and Eternity in the Abyss/Lake of Fire.

In John 3:16 we find God, the Father of all, sending a part of Himself to answer the issue Father Abraham was looking to solve from the time God called him out until God removed him from this plane of existence, right through Jesus opening the Gates of Paradise, as described in Matthew 27:52,53.

I, religiously, went to the Juke Joints when I was single and I religiously avoided them and worshipped my wives and was very busy digging my path into Hell. I had my religions, what I did not have was a Personal Relationship with my Creator God, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

If any man (Being) loves God with all his or, if you must, her heart, he will attend Corporate Worship, IF IT IS POSSIBLE! Being called, of God, to have taught the Bible for so long I have, consistently, dealt with human beings on their way to being one that Jesus will tell, "Away from Me I never knew you." (Matthew 7:23)

These people will have been religious and they will have done great works, some of them, but they never sat down and listened to Him for a single moment...
they Never began a personal relationship with Him... Religion be damned!

 

[Free]

There was religion before God stepped in and sent His Son, Jesus, so why in the name of anything will you teach Religion? Any Religion will gain any man, woman, or child entry into Hell to await the
Great White Throne Judgement and Eternity in the Abyss/Lake of Fire.

That's not what the Bible says:

James 1:26-27, "26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." (ESV)

Sounds a bit like Christianity, doesn't it?

I had my religions, what I did not have was a Personal Relationship with my Creator God, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
....
These people will have been religious and they will have done great works, some of them, but they never sat down and listened to Him for a single moment...
they Never began a personal relationship with Him... Religion be damned!

What is your definition of "religion"?

 

[th1b.taylor]

That's not what the Bible says:

James 1:26-27, "26 If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. 27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." (ESV)

Sounds a bit like Christianity, doesn't it?

That depends on your definition of religion. As per double-blind survey, better than 98 percent of the Church practices a Christian Religion but have, absolutely, no saving relationship with Jesus but they are religious, just as religious as any Jew, Islamist, Muslim, Budhist or on and on. Religion does not save!

 

[Free]

That depends on your definition of religion.

By virtually every definition of religion I have found. You seem to define it different. I asked you what your definition of religion was but you didn't provide one. How do you define 'religion'?

As per double-blind survey, better than 98 percent of the Church practices a Christian Religion but have, absolutely, no saving relationship with Jesus but they are religious, just as religious as any Jew, Islamist, Muslim, Budhist or on and on.

And the other 2% of the Church practice the Christian religion and have a saving relationship with Jesus.

Religion does not save!

Of course it doesn't, but that doesn't mean salvation is not found in religion.

 

[th1b.taylor]

By virtually every definition of religion I have found. You seem to define it different. I asked you what your definition of religion was but you didn't provide one. How do you define 'religion'?

Religion is any system of works religiously adhered to.

And the other 2% of the Church practice the Christian religion and have a saving relationship with Jesus.

But not because of their religion.

Of course it doesn't, but that doesn't mean salvation is not found in religion.

and neither I nor any teacher has ever said it can't be found there but cutting through the practices can be and is for almost everyone very difficult. Over the past 26 years I have helped, well over six hundred find the foot of the cross and then every one of them found the Church assembly they wished to worship with. But their choice of flavor has had nothing to do with their establishing an ongoing relationship with God, they did that on their knees in Prison, in their bedrooms, and a number of other places, maybe even a couple in a Church somewhere.