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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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How to teach religion.
- Thread starter Kidron
- Start date
Sinthesis
Member
Jas 1:21 ¶ Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 - But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 - For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 - For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 - But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 - If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 - Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Does anybody think James is teaching another gospel? I sure don't.Jas 1:22 - But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23 - For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 - For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 - But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas 1:26 - If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jas 1:27 - Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I believe the O.P. does not like the book of James too much.
Also, I don't think the O.P. is espousing the idea that we should not do these things that James speaks of, but that they are not necessary for salvation.
O course, not only did James say all of the above, JESUS said all this. The church began this whole "born again" concept pretty late in the game. I think in the 1800's. This concept was not present in the early church. The Apostles and those that came after them taught WORKS.
It's not a pretty word these days, but that's what the early church father's taught.
I like the Didache. Written in about 100 AD. It could be found here:
http://thedidache.com/
It's an entire list of INSTRUCTIONS. You see, the early church fathers taught what Jesus taught. What we had to DO to end up in heaven. I find it difficult to understand what has CHANGED IN CHRISTIANITY in these modern times to make anyone believe that God has changed His mind about what He would want us to do.
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
Hebrews 13:8
Is it possible that God has changed His ways and requirements in the 1800's? And again in the hyper faith movement of recent times?
I'd also say that the born-again movement of the 1800's seems to me to have been more an attempt at understanding what exactly this born again experience meant. Did it exist in N.T. times? How did one become born again? Were there signs?
Instead the hyper faith movement is a totally new concept. It says that all that is required to end up in heaven is to believe in Jesus. THIS IS NOT WHAT JESUS SAID. He said to do the will of the father.
Mathew 7:21
Jesus came to show us the Kingdom of God. To tell us that we are to be born of above to see it. And he exhorts us to become a PART OF IT. This is done by following Jesus' instructions and by doing what He said to do. It's a change of the heart. It is NOT just believing in Christ.
Some on these threads believe we could do whatever we want to do, it'll be covered by the blood and God will forgive all. God will not be mocked. If one has this attitude I fear his soul will be in danger.
They will tell you that their belief will not encourage sinning. I find this rather a silly attitude. Humans don't need much encouragement to sin! It's kind of like giving one a car to drive and telling them not to worry too much about traffic laws. It's the Laws that keep you alive.
There is a difference between the Old Covenant of laws and the New, but the difference is not in the substance, but in the execution.
A lot - just to say that works ARE necessary. A change in attitude IS necessary. A change in heart, IS necessary.
Wondering
Religion teaches all sorts of things, including being like Peter, Jesus' death and resurrection, that Jesus is the only way to God, that we can have a personal relationship with God, etc. A religion can teach all the things Christianity teaches, hence why Christianity is a religion and the only true religion.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Mathew 14:22-33
One of my favorite. Little Faith.
Mathew 14:30
Peter was okay, until he noticed the wind.
But he did cry out. And Jesus gave him His hand.
Wondering
Kidron
Member
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Because their "position" is to debate a subject that is not related to the topic of my Thread.
Kidron
Member
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Take a good long honest look in your own mirror, Mr Finger.
Kidron
Member
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All religions are man made and lead away from God, by trying to use works and deeds and effort to reach Him.
This is the paradox of "religion".
Christianity on the other hand is God coming here to take us back.
Have you noticed this distinction and what it means regarding your theory?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Religion is a DOING.
Christianity is a BEING.
Jesus didn't leave the Trinity and come here to start a new religion.
He came here to show us how to be "divine", how to see the Kingdom of God here on earth, how to treat one another, how to get to see God.
He told the Apostles to go into the world and preach the gospel. He wants people to repent. To turn away from Satan and turn TO God.
Religion ties you into rules and regulations on how to do this. It puts you into a Religion Box.
God is outside of any box. He wants our heart. And that's all He wants.
The only rule is to Love God and love your neighbor AS YOURSELF.
The gospel, or good news the Apostles were to preach is easy: Through the sacrifice of the Christ, entry into heaven has now been made available.
Some kind of church or institution is necessary to keep Christianity together. But, alas, as in everything else, man is able to infect all with the sin nature that is in him.
So something plain and simple and beautiful, has been turned into a bunch of rules and laws which could be called Religion.
(this does not mean I'm against following the Law - an entirely different concept)
Wondering
Christianity is a BEING.
Jesus didn't leave the Trinity and come here to start a new religion.
He came here to show us how to be "divine", how to see the Kingdom of God here on earth, how to treat one another, how to get to see God.
He told the Apostles to go into the world and preach the gospel. He wants people to repent. To turn away from Satan and turn TO God.
Religion ties you into rules and regulations on how to do this. It puts you into a Religion Box.
God is outside of any box. He wants our heart. And that's all He wants.
The only rule is to Love God and love your neighbor AS YOURSELF.
The gospel, or good news the Apostles were to preach is easy: Through the sacrifice of the Christ, entry into heaven has now been made available.
Some kind of church or institution is necessary to keep Christianity together. But, alas, as in everything else, man is able to infect all with the sin nature that is in him.
So something plain and simple and beautiful, has been turned into a bunch of rules and laws which could be called Religion.
(this does not mean I'm against following the Law - an entirely different concept)
Wondering
Kidron
Member
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Any man or group can start a religion, and they will all end up at the same final destination, = Hell
But only God through Christ can save a human soul and take them to Heaven.
Thats the definitive difference between Christianity and all "religion".
So, when a person tells you that Christianity is a religion, you tell them that you'll agree if there is one more religion in existence, past - or - present or future, that can save a human soul and that also takes them to heaven to be with Jesus The Christ, after they die.
Happy Hunting
John 14:6
That sound great, but I think many religions will say that same thing because they too think God started their religion.
So the difference is not what we say but what God says, not what we say. That is: we can and should be hearing from Him. That is the difference!
Still I have talked to many Christians that never give any indication of actually hearing from the Lord. They might say allsorts of wonderful things, some even say Jesus Christ is their Lord, but when asked what their Lord tells them they seem perplexed. There is a difference between confessing the Jesus Christ is Lord and saying the Jesus Christ is Lord. By confessing Jesus Christ is Lord, you are saying that you get instructions from Him and do them. But a person saying Jesus Christ is Lord might say by route than Jesus is going to take them to heaven because the Bible says so,
So we have a religion, called Christianity, just like the Jews have a religion called Judaism. Both believe in the same God and a Christ. Abraham, through whom both came from, heard from the Lord and that was counted to him as righteousness. I hear from the same One that Abraham does. He talks to me, and I can tell you things that He talks to me about everyday. Is that Christianity or Judaism? I go to a Christian Charismatic church, but it is not about the church it is about My Lord.
For example: I go to the church I do not because I decided to go there but because He told me to go there. I thought another smaller Charismatic church would have been better and told Him so. But He told me that He needed me at this one because of the work He wanted me to do.
And the funny thing to me is that I am not a member there, because they wanted to put allsorts of conditions on being a member at their church, and I didn't agree with all of them. So I ask My Lord Jesus Christ if I needed to sign off on that sheet of paper. He told me "No", and we talked about it. He said He could tell me I needed to sign the membership form because He said "Only one thing is truly need", to Mary, as recorded in the Bible. The one thing needed to be a member is to listen to Him.
If you listen to Him and believe He is God, you are going to do things for Him. And I do allsorts of things at the "Christian" church that my Lord told me to go to, and I do the things He asks me to do because He is my Lord. I have to confess that, because that is what I do. And I have been doing it for years, even at the church I go to. But they don't consider me a member and so won't let me in positions of leadership because I didn't sign their paper, but of course they allow me to help. The Lord knows and knew all that when He told me to go there.
So there is religion, of which many promise something like heaven, and there is knowing the Lord, and they are not always the same thing. Thus there is Christianity and knowing Jesus Christ as your Lord, and that is not always the same things either.
Think of it like this. Only God is good, and you can know Him. And then there is Christianity, that is supposed to be telling people to get to know Jesus Christ who is God the Son. But a personal relationship with God might mean different things, like reading your Bible, but not actually hearing from Him daily.
Abraham was not Christian, but he heard from our Lord and his children are those that do what he does.
And Paul wrote (Rom 11:1).. I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin...
So Paul wasn't a Christian, and Abraham wasn't a Christian, but some say we must be a Christian? Haven't they missed the point? If so, then even Christianity can be the "bad religion which lead away from God".
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Im not making any mistakes,
And one of them im not making is to refuse to comprehend and thereby distinguish the difference between what man religiously creates that is a "religion", that leads all to hell who follow it, vs, God becoming a man and doing something for me that i get as a gift by Faith.
I dont make the mistake of refusing to distinguish this difference.
Religion = man do it till death, then finds hell.
Christianity = God did it and offers it as a gift. = heaven in the end for man.
You may not be but it seems you are making a mistake. It seems you are making it about Christianity instead of making it about Christ!
It very much has to do with the discussion and shows your position to be in error.
It means nothing regarding my "theory". It means that you are still begging the question.
But you too are basing this on your own definition of religion which precludes Christianity. And how do you know Jesus didn't come to start a new religion? Who started Judaism?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
How do you know Jesus DID start a new religion?
He was Jewish. He wasn't happy with how Judaism was treating people. The pharisees and sadducees were religious groups. Was Jesus happy with them?
No. They were keeping the people far away from God. They thought they were better than those who did not belong to their group. They lorded over them, by giving rules and regulations that kept people far away from God.
Rules and regulations do not allow people to experience God. When you got married, did you make up a list of rules and regulations your wife was to follow, or did Love get you through?
You could use Mr. Webser's meaning of "Religion." It's okay.
I said that some kind of institution is necessary to keep Christianity alive. I also said that men ruin institutions. Religion is an institution. Christianity is a life-style.
Jesus didn't tell the Apostles to stay in Jerusalem and open up a church called The Church of Christ.
He sent them out into the world to preach a new way of living. Mathew 28:19-20.
If you could show me where Jesus said to start a new religion, I'd be willing to listen.
I'm not following a religion. I'm following Jesus Christ. He's the only religion I know.
Wondering
Of course Abraham wasn't a Christian, that goes without saying. But Paul was (Acts 11:26). When people say one must be a Christian, they could very well mean that one must be a follower of Christ and hold to certain beliefs, including just who Jesus is and what he has done.
Christianity can be a bad religion when false teachings and a false gospel are introduced by false teachers, which can lead people away from God. But then is that really Christianity?
It rather goes without saying that Jesus corrected people's wrong beliefs and practices, telling them what to believe and what to do. That would be starting a religion.
Who started Judaism?
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
What do you want me to say?
That God started Judaism?
When I studied the Covenants I didn't learn that God started a religion.
I learned that God started a family.
An earthly family.
It started with Adam. He was married to Eve. The first couple. He was the husband and the Covenant form was marriage. The sign was the Sabbath.
Then wehave Noah. He was a father. The Covenant form was a household. The sign was a rainbow.
Abram. He was a Chieftan. God made him the head of a tribe. And a tribe. Changed his name to Abraham because he would be the father of many. The Covenant sign was circumcision.
Moses was a judge. And also a prophet. He was head of a small nation but a nation nontheless. The Covenant sign was passover.
David. A King. The beginning of the Kingdom. He at on a Throne. As does Jesus. The throne is the Covenant sign.
Jesus. Our Royal High Priest. Priest, Prophet, King. He was all. The whole world can now be a part of the Kingdom. The gentiles are grafted in. Covenant sign, the Eucharist, some will say Baptism.
I see a family here. I don't see a church.
The Jewish people, Israelites, Hebrews, began a religion. Man began the religion, not God.
They had a reason to create this religion. I've stated the reason. To pass it down to the next generation; to keep it alive.
But look where it ended up, which I also stated. Pharisees and Sadducees.
It started out as a family, and ended up a religion.
You must know that women were treated better in the time of the exodus than at the time of Jesus.
This is the deterioration that man causes because he is sinful.
Who do you say started Judaism?
Wondering
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