How to walk by the spirit.

[JLB]

There were no Christians at the time of John 4:1-2. Christ had not yet been resurrected.
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
John 4:1-2

Where did the Christians go?

 

[Hopeful 2]

As I stated already...
From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

I disagree.
Your sources are of the group hoping to eliminate one of God's wonders.
And one of Jesus' and Peter's commands.
I urge you to cease.

Acts 2:38 does not mention water...

It doesn't need to, as there was no other form of baptism available for the remission of past sins.
There still isn't.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it,

That is not true.
You forgot about the Ethiopian eunuch, and the Samarians, and Cornelius' group, and the "many at Corinth".
And the twelve at Ephesus.
Your doctrine is false.

and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Why don't you show the word of God telling us that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is no longer necessary.
If a man's repentance from sin is true, and he is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, he will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
(The Holy Ghost is the Spirit the repentant will be baptized with.)
Without either repentance or baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, there will be no gift of the Holy Spirit.
Your doctrine is false.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The provider of the water baptism procedure must be 1. Father sanctified, 2. in Christ and 3. Holy Spirit indwell in them.

Where is that noted in scripture ?
Why would it matter who does the baptizing ?
It is God that does the "work".
Our only part in the situation, is "faith".

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Where is that noted in scripture ?
Why would it matter who does the baptizing ?
It is God that does the "work".
Our only part in the situation, is "faith".

Dear fellow in Christ, I take my position from 1 Corinthians 6:11 "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

It is my position that water baptism is a valid form of spiritual regeneration if the provider falls under the category of 1 Corinthians 6:11 and the recipient has TRULY repented of their sins and believes the gospel of Christ. God would never withhold the Holy Spirit from such recipient in this case.

However, some believers and many at that are not so lucky to face such a provider under the 1 Corinthians 6:11. In that case it is my firm position that God does the Holy Spirit immersion of the recipient without the mediation of a fellow faithful in Christ. As long as the recipient has truly repented and believes the gospel of Christ. And by belief I mean firm obedience to all the teachings of Christ. Belief is active deference not passive.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Dear fellow in Christ, I take my position from 1 Corinthians 6:11 "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

Can't the kid next door use those words to baptize someone ?

It is my position that water baptism is a valid form of spiritual regeneration if the provider falls under the category of 1 Corinthians 6:11

I see no provision for a baptizer in 1 Cor 6, or anywhere else.

and the recipient has TRULY repented of their sins and believes the gospel of Christ. God would never withhold the Holy Spirit from such recipient in this case.

He won't withhold water baptism in His Son's name either.
The Ethiopian eunuch will testify to that.

However, some believers and many at that are not so lucky to face such a provider under the 1 Corinthians 6:11.

Doesn't that sorta undercut God who has all these things covered ?

In that case it is my firm position that God does the Holy Spirit immersion of the recipient without the mediation of a fellow faithful in Christ.

The household of Cornelius is one such example of that, but even they were water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins shortly thereafter.

As long as the recipient has truly repented and believes the gospel of Christ. And by belief I mean firm obedience to all the teachings of Christ. Belief is active deference not passive.

I don't believe God will deny such a person water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
The pattern has been set...Hear, believe, repent, get baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Then, endure faithfully until the end.

 

[Peterlag7]

I disagree.
Your sources are of the group hoping to eliminate one of God's wonders.
And one of Jesus' and Peter's commands.
I urge you to cease.

It doesn't need to, as there was no other form of baptism available for the remission of past sins.
There still isn't.

That is not true.
You forgot about the Ethiopian eunuch, and the Samarians, and Cornelius' group, and the "many at Corinth".
And the twelve at Ephesus.
Your doctrine is false.

Why don't you show the word of God telling us that water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is no longer necessary.
If a man's repentance from sin is true, and he is baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, he will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
(The Holy Ghost is the Spirit the repentant will be baptized with.)
Without either repentance or baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, there will be no gift of the Holy Spirit.
Your doctrine is false.

It blows my mind on how someone could think that water can wash away their sins. It cannot, nor oil, or wine, or orange juice. In the Old Testament it was a rite they would practice under the Law to show they were clean to God. Even under the Law it did not redeem them. For the Christian the term baptism is used in the New Testament referring to the rite. It's how we are redeemed... referring to being immersed in Jesus Christ. The Catholics turned it into water and it blows my mind that so many of you do not know these things.

 

[Peterlag7]

Where did the Christians go?

There were no Christians until after Jesus was resurrected out from among the dead.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Can't the kid next door use those words to baptize someone ?

I see no provision for a baptizer in 1 Cor 6, or anywhere else.

He won't withhold water baptism in His Son's name either.
The Ethiopian eunuch will testify to that.

Doesn't that sorta undercut God who has all these things covered ?

The household of Cornelius is one such example of that, but even they were water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins shortly thereafter.

I don't believe God will deny such a person water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
The pattern has been set...Hear, believe, repent, get baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Then, endure faithfully until the end.

Ok, I really am not sure if you are kidding here or being serious.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

It blows my mind on how someone could think that water can wash away their sins. It cannot, nor oil, or wine, or orange juice. In the Old Testament it was a rite they would practice under the Law to show they were clean to God. Even under the Law it did not redeem them. For the Christian the term baptism is used in the New Testament referring to the rite. It's how we are redeemed... referring to being immersed in Jesus Christ. The Catholics turned it into water and it blows my mind that so many of you do not know these things.

It's a sad situation. Many choose their favorite fast food chain for prefabricated meals rather than learn to cook at home nutritious meals on their own and perhaps invite others to join in the feast.

So we get fights about whether Mcadonald's Catholic versus Wendy Protestant vs "Insert Food Chain of Choice" have the best menus etc etc.

It's a sad situation indeed. But I remain hopeful!

 

[Peterlag7]

Tradition aside there is a logical inconsistency about water baptism effectiveness being needed for spiritual regeneration on the entire population as I have mentioned in another post in this thread.

The provider of the water baptism procedure must be 1. Father sanctified, 2. in Christ and 3. Holy Spirit indwell in them. It's one thing if Peter or Phillip provide the baptism, but if you tell me that all priests and pastors administering baptisms from the times of apostles up to now have had all three qualities I would say you are lying. That is besides the issue of infant baptism etc etc.

As a consequence, there is no way an ominiscient God would leave salvation on the hands of priests and pastors via water baptism until Christ returns. We reach a paradox and the only way out is if God immerses or baptizes a believer in the Holy Spirit on its own. That is Father draws us by John 6:44 first, we repent of our sins and then we are immersed in the Holy Spirit.

I never read anything about water baptism or repenting of my sins to get saved. I did read this when I was a teenager...
Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

I never read anything about water baptism or repenting of my sins to get saved. I did read this when I was a teenager...
Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

From Mark 1:14-15 "Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”"

By repentance, like Christ we crucify our old fleshly self and die on the cross we choose to bear with us. If we believe in the gospel then in faith we know we are alive in Christ forever. Here I quote from Romans 6:5-11.

Water baptism is not needed for salvation. God discerns the heart's intentions, not some outward deference to some ritual required by some denomination.

 

[Corinth77777]

Ok, I really am not sure if you are kidding here or being serious.

No He's not kidding. HE BELiEVES YOU MÙST BE WATER BAPTIZE ARE YOU ARE NOT SAVED. HE PUTS GOD IN A BOX.
SADLY IF HE THINKS LIKE THAT THEN THERE MUST BE OTHER THINGS WRONG WITH HIS THINKING. WHICH MEANS HE FOLLOWS HIS OWN LIMITED UNDERSTANDING. FOUNDATION IS IMPORTANT...

 

[JLB]

There were no Christians until after Jesus was resurrected out from among the dead.

Please post the scripture that teaches us what you claim.

A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ; someone who follows Him and His way of life, His teachings.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Jesus preached the gospel to many and many became His followers; His disciples.


Are you trying to convince us that no one was saved by the ministry of Jesus Christ?

 

[Corinth77777]

God immersed us in Christ Jesus when he cleansed us from our sins. The Catholics turned it into water.
1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

There are 2 aspects to see
A. One is being quickened together with Christ- Eph 2
a. meaning being made alive ( saved) through faith.
B. Now there is the " being saved" sanctified in Christ as you live by the Spirit.
b.How can they call upon the one they have not believed.
.......
As for the "Catholics turned it into water"
In this case it's right in the Bible. The Catholic didn't have to do nothing. Water baptism was something they did know about.

Hebrews states" *

Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God, *instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. *And this we will do, if God permits.


Baptism was not something the Catholics made up.

 

[Tenchi]

Acts 5:3
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
God is Holy and Spirit which is why He's often called the Holy Spirit. I'm sometimes called human and other times a man. That does not mean there's 2 of me.

Your response here totally ignores the point of my citing this verse. Why?

Do you know what the Law of the Indiscernibility of Identicals is? If two things are identical, that is, if there is no discernible difference between two things, if two things have all their properties in common, they are the same thing. We don't see this identicality, though, between God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit in Scripture, the Son and Holy Spirit being merely "modes" of the Father. Instead, though each member of the Trinity is clearly identified as God in the Bible, they aren't revealed to us as one Being manifesting in different forms, like a single cup of water that may be liquid, or vapor, or ice. No, rather, the Trinity is three distinct Beings, moving in different places (e.g. Jesus on earth, the Father in heaven; Jesus at God's right hand, the Spirit dwelling in believers), taking different forms from one another (e.g. the Incarnation; meeting Moses on Mount Sinai) interacting, even, with one another ("the Lord said to my Lord," the baptism of Jesus, etc.).

The Trinity isn't, then, the unbiblical modal God of Oneness Pentecostals but is best represented by the classic, orthodox symbol of the equilateral triangle, the sides of which are all exactly identical in nature (they are all straight lines of the same length), but distinct in position from one another: Side A of the triangle is not side B or C; side B is not side A or C, and so on.

1 Corinthians 2:10-11
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
1 Corinthians 2:10 is not referring to God. It's referring to the spirit that is in all Christians.

??? Simply asserting this against the plain statement of the verse doesn't magically make what the verse actually says disappear, or transform to suit your statement. In fact, the verse above is so clearly speaking of the Holy Spirit that I don't have to offer any defense or argument in support of the fact that it is. Just read the verse at it is given, consider its context, and the fact that it is speaking of the Holy Spirit is undeniable. Here's more of the immediate context that flatly denies your statement above:

1 Corinthians 2:11-13
11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.
13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

This passage corresponds to the following from the apostle John:

John 14:26
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

It should greatly disturb you that your view of God requires that you deny the plain statement of His word. Yikes.

11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
Verse 11 is saying God is Spirit and so His Spirit which is what He is knows Him. It's also saying our spirit knows us. There's not 2 of us and so it's also true that it's not 2 of God.

It is astonishing to me how your wrong understanding of God is forcing you to contort and deny the plain statement of His word. What you've written here is akin to looking at the rising, morning Sun and declaring that it's the Moon at nightfall. Wow.

Ephesians 4:30
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The holy spirit here is the spirit that's in all Christians. It is not referring to God.

It isn't by any means sufficient as a reasonable response to the plain statement of this verse to offer the odd retort that you do here. Your remark above is like the reply of an offended child who yells out, "Oh, yeah? Well, you stink and your Mom dresses you funny!" The reply may be delivered with force and confidence but it is entirely empty of reason, nonetheless. And so it goes for all the verses to which you've made the same response.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It blows my mind on how someone could think that water can wash away their sins.

Water baptism remitted sins for John the Baptist, so why not for Jesus' apostles ?
It is written..."And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" (Luke 3:3)

It cannot, nor oil, or wine, or orange juice.

See above, for the truth.

In the Old Testament it was a rite they would practice under the Law to show they were clean to God.

Please show one spot in the OT, prior to John the Baptist, where someone was "baptized".

Even under the Law it did not redeem them. For the Christian the term baptism is used in the New Testament referring to the rite. It's how we are redeemed... referring to being immersed in Jesus Christ. The Catholics turned it into water and it blows my mind that so many of you do not know these things.

I guess we will need to look at the fruit of our two doctrines to see which is of God.
Do you still commit sin ?
Has your baptism crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts ? (Gal 5:24)
Has it destroyed the old man ? (Rom 6:6)