How to walk by the spirit.

[Hopeful 2]

Anything that tries to disturb my peace is too expensive. You'll have to argue with someone that likes to deal with that energy....

Do X and Y, that Z may occur.

 

[Corinth77777]

1 Peter does not mention water.

What would you consider an appeal to God for a clear conscience,

And you can have all the water you want. You can dive in it every Sunday at church. It just means nothing to God

According to? God looks at the heart and knowledge of man, does He not? God has the ability to make anyone stand in regards to their understanding. Doesn't scripture say so?

because water produces nothing in the New Testament.

God can use water to produce the effects He desires. Just as He told them to walk around the wall of Jericho...Or the women believed if she could just touch the Hem of His garment.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What would you consider an appeal to God for a clear conscience,

According to? God looks at the heart and knowledge of man, does He not? God has the ability to make anyone stand in regards to their understanding. Doesn't scripture say so?

God can use water to produce the effects He desires. Just as He told them to walk around the wall of Jericho...Or the women believed if she could just touch the Hem of His garment.

Got faith ?

 

[Peterlag7]

What would you consider an appeal to God for a clear conscience,

According to? God looks at the heart and knowledge of man, does He not? God has the ability to make anyone stand in regards to their understanding. Doesn't scripture say so?

God can use water to produce the effects He desires. Just as He told them to walk around the wall of Jericho...Or the women believed if she could just touch the Hem of His garment.

Again, you can do anything you want with water. God does not have any use for water in the New Testament when it concerns our redemption.

 

[Peterlag7]

That is how water baptism is done.
In Jesus' name, for the remission of past sins. (Acts 2:38, 22:16))

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is dependent on a real turn from sin and baptism first...as Peter commanded in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

I really don't think Peter was wrong.
Why do you ?
Does your sect teach that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is done without using water ?
What sect is that ?
Has it enabled anyone to live without sinning ?

The word baptism means immersion. It does not mean water. The Christian is immersed in the spirit of Christ. The Catholics turned that into water.

 

[Corinth77777]

Jesus said..."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Here one should not see only water...
It is the making of disciples to immerse them in the presence of the 3..

Some people believe it means to dunk them while saying those names...
But He explains, " teaching them to do all that I commanded you"

Go back to the red sea...All the fathers were baptized under the cloud and in the Red Sea

Again, you can do anything you want with water. God does not have any use for water in the New Testament when it concerns our redemption.

That is absolutely illogical, It is the way many people exercised what they say they believed. God can, and I believe He did use water to cleanse.

If you believe something to be true you can make a committment to follow through being water baptized.

IF you walk in the light as He is in the light you have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all unrighteousness.

There are other things I see like when Jesus was baptized the heavens opened up..And I believe through committment to His teachings, being baptized in His name, the heavens/ His kingdom is available, are open to us too. So coming out of the water is to operate from a new dimension, the rule under our king, where what God wants done is done.

God can use a physical concept to Help explain its reality. But it's God who uses the water.

 

[JLB]

Here are your words...
There's no Scripture teaching that Christians should baptize other Christians with water.

Those are not my words.

Here are my words under the post with my name on it.

Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
John 4:1-2


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done. Acts 8:12-13

And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.
Acts 9:17-18


Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us. Acts 16:14-15


So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
Acts 16:31-33

 

[Corinth77777]

Here one should not see only water...
It is the making of disciples to immerse them in the presence of the 3..

Some people believe it means to dunk them while saying those names...
But He explains, " teaching them to do all that I commanded you"

Go back to the red sea...All the fathers were baptized under the cloud and in the Red Sea

That is absolutely illogical, It is the way many people exercised what they say they believed. God can, and I believe He did use water to cleanse.

If you believe something to be true you can make a committment to follow through being water baptized.

IF you walk in the light as He is in the light you have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all unrighteousness.

There are other things I see like when Jesus was baptized the heavens opened up..And I believe through committment to His teachings, being baptized in His name, the heavens/ His kingdom is available, are open to us too. So coming out of the water is to operate from a new dimension, the rule under our king, where what God wants done is done.

God can use a physical concept to Help explain its reality. But it's God who uses the water.

Now While many churches make disciples differently God is still the same. And as long as one gets born from above that is the key. However you get it! And as we saw from amongst the Gentiles they received the Spirit before water baptism. Now who could forbid them from water, in my opinion is to say, they too have access to the kingdom of God. No longer to be called dogs, or treated differently. They are our brothers.

 

[Corinth77777]

Again, you can do anything you want with water. God does not have any use for water in the New Testament when it concerns our redemption.

For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

God can use anything He wants to at anytime and any place. But we have not been taught to use water in that way.
Preachers all teach differently.

So God can also meet us where we are.

 

[Corinth77777]

Do X and Y, that Z may occur.

You got that right it "may" occur
But believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you "will" be saved.

GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART
IT'S WHAT HAPPENS ON THE INSIDE THAT MANIFEST ITSELF ON THE OUTSIDE.

WHICH BRINGS ME TO ANOTHER THOUGHT..AT ANOTHER TIME.

 

[Peterlag7]

For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

God can use anything He wants to at anytime and any place. But we have not been taught to use water in that way.
Preachers all teach differently.

So God can also meet us where we are.

John 5:4 that you are quoting is not found in any ancient Manuscripts.

 

[Peterlag7]

Those are not my words.

Here are my words under the post with my name on it.

There were no Christians at the time of John 4:1-2. Christ had not yet been resurrected.
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),
John 4:1-2

 

[Peterlag7]

Here one should not see only water...
It is the making of disciples to immerse them in the presence of the 3..

Some people believe it means to dunk them while saying those names...
But He explains, " teaching them to do all that I commanded you"

Go back to the red sea...All the fathers were baptized under the cloud and in the Red Sea

That is absolutely illogical, It is the way many people exercised what they say they believed. God can, and I believe He did use water to cleanse.

If you believe something to be true you can make a committment to follow through being water baptized.

IF you walk in the light as He is in the light you have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses you from all unrighteousness.

There are other things I see like when Jesus was baptized the heavens opened up..And I believe through committment to His teachings, being baptized in His name, the heavens/ His kingdom is available, are open to us too. So coming out of the water is to operate from a new dimension, the rule under our king, where what God wants done is done.

God can use a physical concept to Help explain its reality. But it's God who uses the water.

God immersed us in Christ Jesus when he cleansed us from our sins. The Catholics turned it into water.
1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

 

[Tenchi]

There is no person of the Holy Spirit.

??? Yes, there is. He is referred to again and again in the Old and New Testaments. And he is most definitely a Person.

The Spirit is the third member of the Trinitarian Godhead.

Matthew 28:19
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

The Holy Spirit may be lied to.

Acts 5:3
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?

The Holy Spirit knows and searches the depths of God.

1 Corinthians 2:10-11
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

The Holy Spirit may be grieved.

Ephesians 4:30
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The Holy Spirit teaches and reminds.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 16:13-14
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

The Holy Spirit makes decisions.

Acts 15:28
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:

The Holy Spirit has a mind, interceding for believers with God and strengthening them.

Romans 8:26-27
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address.

??? This is the strangest - and, frankly, the lamest - argument against the fact of the Person of the Holy Spirit I've ever encountered. The Holy Spirit is named over and over again in Scripture and given various names - Paraclete (Helper/ Comforter), Spirit of the Lord, Spirit of grace, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of God, etc. - just as are the other members of the Trinity.

Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name“Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

??? See above.

Imagine a hermit who lives in a cave way up on a mountain. Far below his cave, there is a village. The people of the village are aware of the hermit, though no has ever spoken directly to him. They see him walking the mountainside and traversing the forest around the village, but he disappears before anyone can approach him and talk to him. They don't know his name or anything else about the hermit except that he exists and lives nearby. And so, the mysterious mountain man remains simply "the hermit" to the people of the village.

Using your logic, Peterlag7, since the hermit has never been addressed directly by name by anyone from the village, it must follow that he doesn't really exist. But this conclusion is clearly nonsensical, since it is very evident that the hermit does exist. And so, were you to assert to the villagers that the hermit doesn't exist, they would laugh at the ridiculousness of your entirely non sequitur thinking.

It is just as nonsensical to conclude that the Holy Spirit doesn't exist on the basis of his never being directly addressed. His existence, his nature, and his activity are described all throughout the Bible and on this basis we can very reasonably conclude that he does exist.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The word baptism means immersion. It does not mean water. The Christian is immersed in the spirit of Christ. The Catholics turned that into water.

Immersion, into water.
"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" (Acts 8:36)
Water takes the place the grave, into which Jesus was laid.
It is written..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Rom 6:5)

If the repentance from sin was true, the gift of the Holy Ghost will come next.
Just as Peter said in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Do X and Y, and Z will come about.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Here one should not see only water...
It is the making of disciples to immerse them in the presence of the 3..

As water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is our entry into Him,
baptism facilitates everything that comes next.
Including His presence.

Some people believe it means to dunk them while saying those names...
But He explains, " teaching them to do all that I commanded you"

Christians have believed it for about 2000 years.
Peter was the first "teacher" and he taught them..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Your variation of Peter's, and Jesus' words, shuts the very door you want to open.

Go back to the red sea...All the fathers were baptized under the cloud and in the Red Sea

The actual reading of 1 Cor 10:2 is this..."And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"

So, yes, they were, and by their "immersion" into those events, took part in all the good facilitated thereby.
Just as we do by our "immersion", by water baptism into Christ, His death, His burial, and His resurrection. (Rom 6:3-7)
Including our freedom from sin.
Has your version of baptism allowed you to be free from sin ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

You got that right it "may" occur
But believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you "will" be saved.

If you do X and Y, Z occurs.
I believe 'on' Him, but I also obey His commands.

GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART
IT'S WHAT HAPPENS ON THE INSIDE THAT MANIFEST ITSELF ON THE OUTSIDE.

Are you free from sin ?

 

[Peterlag7]

Immersion, into water.
"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?" (Acts 8:36)
Water takes the place the grave, into which Jesus was laid.
It is written..."For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:" (Rom 6:5)

If the repentance from sin was true, the gift of the Holy Ghost will come next.
Just as Peter said in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Do X and Y, and Z will come about.

As I stated already...
From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

Acts 2:38 does not mention water...
In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.”

 

[Peterlag7]

??? Yes, there is. He is referred to again and again in the Old and New Testaments. And he is most definitely a Person.

The Spirit is the third member of the Trinitarian Godhead.

Matthew 28:19
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

The Holy Spirit may be lied to.

Acts 5:3
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?

The Holy Spirit knows and searches the depths of God.

1 Corinthians 2:10-11
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

The Holy Spirit may be grieved.

Ephesians 4:30
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The Holy Spirit teaches and reminds.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 16:13-14
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

The Holy Spirit makes decisions.

Acts 15:28
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:

The Holy Spirit has a mind, interceding for believers with God and strengthening them.

Romans 8:26-27
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.



??? This is the strangest - and, frankly, the lamest - argument against the fact of the Person of the Holy Spirit I've ever encountered. The Holy Spirit is named over and over again in Scripture and given various names - Paraclete (Helper/ Comforter), Spirit of the Lord, Spirit of grace, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of God, etc. - just as are the other members of the Trinity.



??? See above.

Imagine a hermit who lives in a cave way up on a mountain. Far below his cave, there is a village. The people of the village are aware of the hermit, though no has ever spoken directly to him. They see him walking the mountainside and traversing the forest around the village, but he disappears before anyone can approach him and talk to him. They don't know his name or anything else about the hermit except that he exists and lives nearby. And so, the mysterious mountain man remains simply "the hermit" to the people of the village.

Using your logic, Peterlag7, since the hermit has never been addressed directly by name by anyone from the village, it must follow that he doesn't really exist. But this conclusion is clearly nonsensical, since it is very evident that the hermit does exist. And so, were you to assert to the villagers that the hermit doesn't exist, they would laugh at the ridiculousness of your entirely non sequitur thinking.

It is just as nonsensical to conclude that the Holy Spirit doesn't exist on the basis of his never being directly addressed. His existence, his nature, and his activity are described all throughout the Bible and on this basis we can very reasonably conclude that he does exist.

Acts 5:3
3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
God is Holy and Spirit which is why He's often called the Holy Spirit. I'm sometimes called human and other times a man. That does not mean there's 2 of me.

1 Corinthians 2:10-11
10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
1 Corinthians 2:10 is not referring to God. It's referring to the spirit that is in all Christians.

11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.
Verse 11 is saying God is Spirit and so His Spirit which is what He is knows Him. It's also saying our spirit knows us. There's not 2 of us and so it's also true that it's not 2 of God.
Ephesians 4:30
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The holy spirit here is the spirit that's in all Christians. It is not referring to God.

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
The holy spirit here is the spirit that's in all Christians. It is not referring to God.

John 16:13-14
13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
The holy spirit here is the spirit that's in all Christians. It is not referring to God.

Acts 15:28
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
Acts 15:28 is referring to God.
Romans 8:26-27
26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
The holy spirit here is the spirit that's in all Christians. It is not referring to God.

27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. The holy spirit here is the spirit that's in all Christians. It is not referring to God.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

As I stated already...
From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

Acts 2:38 does not mention water...
In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Tradition aside there is a logical inconsistency about water baptism effectiveness being needed for spiritual regeneration on the entire population as I have mentioned in another post in this thread.

The provider of the water baptism procedure must be 1. Father sanctified, 2. in Christ and 3. Holy Spirit indwell in them. It's one thing if Peter or Phillip provide the baptism, but if you tell me that all priests and pastors administering baptisms from the times of apostles up to now have had all three qualities I would say you are lying. That is besides the issue of infant baptism etc etc.

As a consequence, there is no way an ominiscient God would leave salvation on the hands of priests and pastors via water baptism until Christ returns. We reach a paradox and the only way out is if God immerses or baptizes a believer in the Holy Spirit on its own. That is Father draws us by John 6:44 first, we repent of our sins and then we are immersed in the Holy Spirit.