How was the Thief on the Cross Saved?

[Grubal Muruch]

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

AMEN!!!

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: Thought it was clear enough -

OH well -

Once more then:

Faith - BIBLICAL Faith - will, of it's intrinsic nature Produce "an effect" in a Person, who has passed from spiritual "DEATH" into "Spiritual LIFE" by repentance, and Faith in the Sacrifice of Jesus as their "SIN OFFERING". The "Effect" will be multi-faceted. Attitute changes, appetites for God that weren't there before, a desire for the WORD of God, alteration in personality, changes in outlook, etc.

In MY case I went instantly from a totally hopeless, frightened, suicidal, and terminally depressed loser - to a NEW person, CLEAN before God, and with Peace, and the sense of a future (and the instant elimination of a 10-year three-pack a day cigarette habit - gone like it was never there).

SO - "It WORKED" - it made a CHANGE in me, as it does in other folks that are "Born Again".

What James addresses is a "Faith" that DOESN'T WORK - It produces NO EFFECT in the person CLAIMING to "have faith. James calls it "Dead Faith" - which, of course is NO Faith at all.

Simple as that.

AMEN!!!

 

[francisdesales]

Your comment contradicts Jesus and Scripture! According to you, we are not saved by our FAITH in Jesus. I need not comment any further on that, as everyone else can read your comments and come to their own conclusions.

You totally misunderstand the point of grace as a gift in your bid to push a false gospel that sets works against faith, as if one human effort is better than another.

NOTHING WE DO ALONE CAN EARN SALVATION.

Not your faith alone. Not your works alone. NOTHING can obligate God to reach out and save you. NOTHING can be brought to the "table" and laid before God and say "you owe me, God, this faith makes me worthy". You HAVE read Romans 4:4, correct?

Otherwise, faith itself is not a gift, but something we can brag about.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Like DUH. Grace in the face.

:p

That's ONE way of putting it...

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Thought it was clear enough -

OH well -

Once more then:

Faith - BIBLICAL Faith - will, of it's intrinsic nature Produce "an effect" in a Person, who has passed from spiritual "DEATH" into "Spiritual LIFE" by repentance, and Faith in the Sacrifice of Jesus as their "SIN OFFERING". The "Effect" will be multi-faceted. Attitute changes, appetites for God that weren't there before, a desire for the WORD of God, alteration in personality, changes in outlook, etc.

In MY case I went instantly from a totally hopeless, frightened, suicidal, and terminally depressed loser - to a NEW person, CLEAN before God, and with Peace, and the sense of a future (and the instant elimination of a 10-year three-pack a day cigarette habit - gone like it was never there).

SO - "It WORKED" - it made a CHANGE in me, as it does in other folks that are "Born Again".

What James addresses is a "Faith" that DOESN'T WORK - It produces NO EFFECT in the person CLAIMING to "have faith. James calls it "Dead Faith" - which, of course is NO Faith at all.

Dead faith is not "NO Faith", it is a faith that is incomplete or non-salvific. James says that this "dead" faith, in of itself is "good", {You believe that God is one; you do well. Ja 2:19} a start, but is not what is expected of those who have been baptized into the death and resurrection of Christ. Just believing that God exists (the content of their 'dead' faith) is indeed necessary, but it is not enough to be justified in God's eyes. James nowhere states that "dead" faith is "no faith at all". His last sentence in James 2 also points this out with his comparison:

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead James 2:26

The comparison makes it clear that dead faith is not "no faith", just as a body without the spirit is NOT "no body". The body that is dead is dead. It is NOT "non-existent". Same with faith. A dead faith is dead, but it is not "non-existent". The belief that God exists is absolutely necessary in the conversion process.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I have read everything he said, and he has clearly stated and said that we are not saved by FAITH ALONE!

We aren't. The bible states the same thing.

Now, let's use your method of discussion, maybe you'll understand things better... :nod

Yes or no...

is the following verse part of the Word of God {James 2:20}?

Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

The Bible itself states that faith alone does not save. It is useless. But just to show you that James is not a "rebel"...

Yes or no...

Is the following verse part of the Word of God? {1 Cor 13:2}

And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

It appears that Paul and James agree with me. Or actually, I agree with them. Faith alone does not save. I can have a TREMENDOUS amount of faith, and it is NOTHING without something else (love). How much simpler can this get? Faith ALONE is useless. Nothing.

So says the Word of God. Now, who am I going to believe, the Bible or you?

Regards

 

[Grubal Muruch]

We aren't. The bible states the same thing.

Now, let's use your method of discussion, maybe you'll understand things better... :nod

Yes or no...

is the following verse part of the Word of God {James 2:20}?

Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

The Bible itself states that faith alone does not save. It is useless. But just to show you that James is not a "rebel"...

Yes or no...

Is the following verse part of the Word of God? {1 Cor 13:2}

And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

It appears that Paul and James agree with me. Or actually, I agree with them. Faith alone does not save. I can have a TREMENDOUS amount of faith, and it is NOTHING without something else (love). How much simpler can this get? Faith ALONE is useless. Nothing.

So says the Word of God. Now, who am I going to believe, the Bible or you?

Regards

Faith placed in the Atonement of Christ (Grace of God) initiates the Salvation process. Without Faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him (God.") Our righteousness's, the Bible says, "are as filthy rags." First we become "Born again," then good works/fruit will follow. There's NOTHING we can do, before we're Born again, to please God.

The Holy Spirit, within us brings forth "good fruit and good works." Before Salvation we are totally lost in our sins and CANNOT please God. God expects nothing,but sinless perfection, and that only comes by way of the shed blood of Christ (The Atonement.) True saving faith brings forth action (good works) not just intellectual acceptance and verbalization of facts pertaining to the message of God's Grace. In James 2:21-22 we see faith working hand in hand with works, by way of the, obedience of Abraham... Faith and works are associated. They are inseparable. But works before being Born again are of NO use to anyone. Faith first, then works will follow. That's the order...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

The Bible itself states that faith alone does not save. It is useless. But just to show you that James is not a "rebel"...


Regards

Faith never, "Saves" us, God's Grace, "Saves us." Therein lies the very important distinction. The Holy Spirit, draws/convicts us. Our faith initiates the Salvation process. But God's Grace through Christs Atonement on the cross is what "Saves" us. Faith doesn't save us, it only is used to INITIATE the process. God gets ALL the glory for our Salvation...

 

[Levi]

I think what the thief said comforted Jesus in some way.

Excellent point Childeye! I spotted that amongst this din and it reminded me that Jesus calls us servants no longer when we are born of faith.

He calls us friends this is a really important point, at least to this man anyway!

So often people squabble and argue over points of truth to the point where it becomes an impersonal argument of what basically amount to laws and legislation!

At the end of the day if we know Him as a friend none of this other dribble matters,

we have experienced the sovereign decision of God to pour out His grace,

we have experienced the true faith that is given birth from Hid grace,

and we will be doers in the works of the cross as we walk in unity with our friend.

And hopefully we will bring joy and comfort to Him.

 

[childeye]

Excellent point Childeye! I spotted that amongst this din and it reminded me that Jesus calls us servants no longer when we are born of faith.

He calls us friends this is a really important point, at least to this man anyway!

So often people squabble and argue over points of truth to the point where it becomes an impersonal argument of what basically amount to laws and legislation!

At the end of the day if we know Him as a friend none of this other dribble matters,

we have experienced the sovereign decision of God to pour out His grace,

we have experienced the true faith that is given birth from Hid grace,

and we will be doers in the works of the cross as we walk in unity with our friend.

And hopefully we will bring joy and comfort to Him.

Thanks for the response Levi. I know you understand what I mean. Jesus sure could use some comfort at that particular time. Even the littlest thing is huge at some moments. When I empathize with Jesus upon the cross and from the midst of all the mocking and deriding him, this man says,"We are up here because we did wrong but this man did nothing, when you come into your Kingdom Jesus, please remember me", that is huge.

Levi, you are so right about talking Truth to the point it just becomes more laws. Your response to my comment was huge and when I read it, it lit me up.