How will the world explain the rapture?

[freeway]

And every other nutcase with some wild idea needs to be respected to I guess. What about people who say Jesus and Satan are brothers should their opinion be respected?

I respect no false doctrine.

Well, what about those that are so closed minded and say the post trib is the "only" way and the rest of the Christians are off their rockers??? sad for those.. I believe in a pre trib, but and I mean but.. if there is not one well my Jesus will get me as far along into the tribulation that He wants me to be..
When it comes to your hour of testing do not fear, for I will put the words in your month.. quote from Jesus.. I tend to believe He is more powerful than anything Satan can throw at us...

 

[freeway]

Let me tell you: only the doctrines that adversely affect the message of salvation through the blood of Jesus Christ are those we need contend for.

Eschatology doesn't affect salvation.

My views about eschatology agree with scripture. So do post-tribulational views. I and many other pre-tribbers don't sit there and tell posties that they are false. Rarely have I ever seen anyone accusing them of being false. It only seems to be a problem for you and your group, who regularly castigating brothers and sisters in Christ for what they see as false views.

Calling the pre-trib rapture view a lie of Satan is disgusting. God leaves us room for interpretation.

100% agree. Just to add a little info of my own. I have never talked to any pre trib believer and have them say to me. that if Jesus does not come in a pre trib event that they would not be ready for what is/will come upon the world.. Does any Christian truly want to be here and have that chance of getting our head cut off... seriously..

 

[Adstar]

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Why does it have to be about the Romans? Any future evet after the first advent qualifies as being suitable for this prophecy. Right up until the present day and even into the future. It might not have happened yet.

And also it could be metaphorical. Flesh dissolving could mean not doing evil....eyes dissolving could mean not seeing evil...tongue dissolving could mean not speaking evil. Theres a million different ways to read into these highly allegorical passages.

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Maybe it's talking about all the gold that the RCC has collected being under the ultimate control of the Whore of Babylon who controls all the nations through finance?

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'Everyone who is left' could just mean all the believers who go up to pay homage to Jesus at the Jerusalem. Why does it have to be Romans?

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Maybe it's a drought of the spirit. Of the living waters?



Yeah but I've come up with moderatley adequate explanations for most of that stuff and thats just from doing a tiny amount of study on it. If I really dug into the history books I could probably find events that would fit better. And there could still be events happening in the future, or even stuff that got lost down the memory hole of history that could fit to those prophecy's. Not everything that happened in history is in the books.

All I'm really saying is that one verse about Jesus standing on the mount of olives could be prophesying the first advent with it's spiritual division of the Jews.

And also the word 'feet' as used in that verse actually translates to 'be able to endure'?? Which just confuses things even more.

For the rest of the verses in the chapter, they could mean a whole bunch of stuff spiritual or physical at any point in history.



Doc.

Carn't you see you had to do a "smaller job" on the scriptures i reviewed to make them fit your position? A position based on fear. Fear of deception.

Plus isn't the timing all mixed up if Zech 14 fits Revelation? First thing that happens is all the nations being gathered against Jerusalem. Are you saying that this event is armageddon?

Yes Zeck 14 does cover the battle of amageddon.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

What do you mean? Explain.

What scripture are you talking about?

Isn't New Jerusalem the Bride?

The Saints will be coming with Him.

Zechariah 14
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You.


1 Thessalonians 3
12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, 13 so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

No it isn't. It is a valid interpretation just as the post-tribulational interpretation is. God has left us many hints as to final events, but He hasn't laid it out in precise detail. It isn't a salvational matter. We must bear with one another.

It is a pretty disheartening pattern that those who hold to any other belief than the pre-tribulational one are those who denigrate, accuse and persecute those who hold that view. To me, it strengthens my belief as the truth, for the truth is what usually causes disturbance in people.

I have been on other froums where my post-trib stance has been denigrated and i have been accused and persecuted by pre-trib believers.

So i assure you there is nothing unique in your experiance.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

And every other nutcase with some wild idea needs to be respected to I guess. What about people who say Jesus and Satan are brothers should their opinion be respected?

I respect no false doctrine.

Ahhhh but you can show no respect for a doctrine and at the same time show love and act in a gentile way to the one who believes in the doctrine.

As the old sport saying goes.

"Play the ball not the man"


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

100% agree. Just to add a little info of my own. I have never talked to any pre trib believer and have them say to me. that if Jesus does not come in a pre trib event that they would not be ready for what is/will come upon the world.. Does any Christian truly want to be here and have that chance of getting our head cut off... seriously..

[FONT=&quot]Seriously. Ones beliefs on rapture should not be affected by what one wants.

I am only interested in what the scriptures say on the matter. Not what i want to happen.

The very act of asking that question kind of suggests that somehow if one believes in post-trib rapture then it will make it happen and steal pre-trib rapture away from those who want it to work out that way.

What you believe and what i believe and what we want has absolutely not one jot of effect on what will happen. What God has planned, He has had planned for a very long time and it will happen when He planned it to happen.[/FONT]

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

And every other nutcase with some wild idea needs to be respected to I guess. What about people who say Jesus and Satan are brothers should their opinion be respected?

I respect no false doctrine.

Doctrine is things that directly relate to salvation,

Interpreting highly metaphorical prophecy (of which none of us know the whole picture) is not doctrine.

Pre-tribbers are simply open to being deceived thats all.

Maybe I'm wrong about all that but I guess what I meant was that we still need to respect the person and not the doctrine/theosophy.

 

[Strangelove]

Carn't you see you had to do a "smaller job" on the scriptures i reviewed to make them fit your position? A position based on fear. Fear of deception.

Granted. But I'm sure if I trawled through 2000 years of history with a fine tooth comb I could prolly do better. Plus who's to say that we havn't been given the ability to interpret those Zech 14 prophecy's correctly just yet. Maybe theres some hidden scrolls somehwere that reveals some events in history that we don't now know about?

Yes Zeck 14 does cover the battle of amageddon.

Doesn't the battle of armageddon come after Christs return and 'millenial' reign?

 

[Adstar]

Doesn't the battle of armageddon come after Christs return and 'millenial' reign?

The Battle of Armageddon happens on the day of the return of the Messiah Jesus. The battle of amageddon however is not the last great battle. There is another battle (more like a slaughter) at the end of the 1000 years.

And Zech 14 does show this battle.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

The Battle of Armageddon happens on the day of the return of the Messiah Jesus. The battle of amageddon however is not the last great battle. There is another battle (more like a slaughter) at the end of the 1000 years.

And Zech 14 does show this battle.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Oh yeah your right it happens in cahpter 6 before Jesus comes.

But I also noticed that the big Earthquakes happen also in that chapter (and some before that chapter) but there are none after that when Jesus comes, so that doesn't really fit with Zech 14 does it? With the big earthquake supposedly splitting the Mt. of Olives?

 

[JesusistheWord]

My Thoughts:


First we will have total peace. Then the one who brings the peace is slowly revealed over a seven year period, during this time those who are truly part of God's elect will be persecuted. Choices will be forced upon them. If the choose God they may have to give up this life for an eternal life with God. Then after this seven years Through Christ Jesus The Heavenly Fathers elect will be risen into the clouds with Christ. Then there will be a great war and Satan will be cast into the pit for a thousand years and there will be peace once again. Then Satan is unleashed once more and the final battle is raged and Satan and all those who belong to him are cast away and a new earth and a new heaven comes down like a bride for a groom and we will worship and reign with Our creator, heavenly Father, and his Only begotten, forever.

 

[Alabaster]

I have been on other froums where my post-trib stance has been denigrated and i have been accused and persecuted by pre-trib believers.

So i assure you there is nothing unique in your experiance.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Sorry to hear that. I have been an active member of many Christian forums over the last several years and have yet to see that.

 

[Alabaster]

Oh yeah your right it happens in cahpter 6 before Jesus comes.

But I also noticed that the big Earthquakes happen also in that chapter (and some before that chapter) but there are none after that when Jesus comes, so that doesn't really fit with Zech 14 does it? With the big earthquake supposedly splitting the Mt. of Olives?

Where is it said that an earthquake splits the Mount of Olives?

 

[Vic C.]

I only read the first page, but it's clear this topic has strayed WAY off course. :D

This is my attempt to sterr it back.

oh my! lo and behold you can actually find the answers to every question you have in the Bible.

thanks David! in all my life and in all my eschatological studies i've never seen this explained before.

Wow, the Lord is so smart, He thought of everything. I'm going to enjoy picking His brain in Heaven.

Yes HE did, including giving us a Temple NOT made by human hands.

They wont have to explain what doesnt happen.
There is no pre trib rapture.Only a post trib gathering at the end of the world.

This is sort of in line with what I believe. :yes

... and to add to the mix, I don't believe in a future 70th week. I believe it's was consecutive to the previous 69 and had come and gone. It belongs in the category of Messianic prophecy and not some future event.

Shocking, heh?

 

[watchman F]

Well, what about those that are so closed minded and say the post trib is the "only" way and the rest of the Christians are off their rockers??? sad for those.. I believe in a pre trib, but and I mean but.. if there is not one well my Jesus will get me as far along into the tribulation that He wants me to be..
When it comes to your hour of testing do not fear, for I will put the words in your month.. quote from Jesus.. I tend to believe He is more powerful than anything Satan can throw at us...

Anyone that believwe the scripture as written believes in the post trib rapture. Anyone who believes anything is believing that the Bible is untrue and they know better than God how to deliver his people

 

[watchman F]

Calling the pre-trib rapture view a lie of Satan is disgusting.

Actually it is the cold hard truth. The pretrib rapture was created by satan promoted by man to lull the church to sleep.

God leaves us room for interpretation.

We should not ''interpret'' God's word. We should simply believe that what He has plainly said is true. He will return immediately after the Tribulation to gather His elect, the dead will rise first, and then we which are alive and remain to be caught up. there is no resurrection between the resurrection of Christ and His post trib return. Matthew 24:29-31, 1st Corinthians 15: 20-23, 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17

 

[jasoncran]

Actually it is the cold hard truth. The pretrib rapture was created by satan promoted by man to lull the church to sleep.We should not ''interpret'' God's word. We should simply believe that what He has plainly said is true. He will return immediately after the Tribulation to gather His elect, the dead will rise first, and then we which are alive and remain to be caught up. there is no resurrection between the resurrection of Christ and His post trib return. Matthew 24:29-31, 1st Corinthians 15: 20-23, 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17

created by satan, really? i know no pre-tribber in person that fears if its wrong. keep in mind most pre-tribbers don't believe that they also may be alive when the lord returns some stupid verse that we cant ignore that says tommorow isnt promised.

its not promised.

my pastor recenlty told the church repent for one of you may die as he felt the lord told him that. a teen came forward and repented four days later that teen was dead.

yup sounds satanic to me.

 

[Alabaster]

Actually it is the cold hard truth. The pretrib rapture was created by satan promoted by man to lull the church to sleep.We should not ''interpret'' God's word. We should simply believe that what He has plainly said is true. He will return immediately after the Tribulation to gather His elect, the dead will rise first, and then we which are alive and remain to be caught up. there is no resurrection between the resurrection of Christ and His post trib return. Matthew 24:29-31, 1st Corinthians 15: 20-23, 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17

False. The pre-trib rapture is a legitimate interpretation of scripture. Why would God have His people suffer Tribulation when it is meant for the world? We are not part of this world. God's time clock focuses on the Jew--not the Bride.

 

[Vic C.]

I can answer that. First, see my signature.

Second, the world is destined for wrath. Tribulation is what we believers have suffered since the Crucifixion. The Lord never pardoned us from tribulation. But, He has promised we would not be subjected to His wrath.

They are two different things.