Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

How will the world explain the rapture?

People who believe false doctrines of man, rather than the very word of God Himself because it is more comfortable to believe a lie over the truth are willfully blind. If that makes you mad so be it. At least i care enough to be honest with you :)

Neither the post-Tribulational view nor the pre-Tribulational view is a lie! These are bona fide interpretations. God has been sufficiently vague so that we will rely on faith to fill in the blanks. What matters is that we follow hard after Jesus Christ in relationship with Him and love others to Him while we are here living our earthly lives.

He doesn't really care which interpretation we cling to, but He does care how we treat each other, and how we love those who don't know Him. What kind of love is manifested in these kinds of remarks, watchman F????

In my personal opinion, those who call pre-Tribbers blind, purveyors of lies and followers of doctrines of men need to get back to the drawing table with regard to love. It only shows me I am on the right track.
 
A post and a response to it have been deleted. Remarks should not insult members, but be constructively tempered toward their beliefs. It is the expectation that members review and post in keeping with our ToS, and I'm focusing on Points 5 & 6 at this time.

"5 - Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities.

6 - No Bashing of other members. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself."


 
Neither the post-Tribulational view nor the pre-Tribulational view is a lie! These are bona fide interpretations. God has been sufficiently vague so that we will rely on faith to fill in the blanks.
This is not true.
#1 The petrib rapture is not a bona fide interpretation, it is a perversion of scripture
#2 Scripture is no vague it is quite clear.
6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.


#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.



#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.


#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.


#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

He doesn't really care which interpretation we cling to, but He does care how we treat each other, and how we love those who don't know Him. What kind of love is manifested in these kinds of remarks, watchman F????
God does care
#1 He wants us all to come to the knowledge of all truths.
#2 He wants us to be prepared for the time of trouble that is cominng.

It would be hate for me to tell yu anything but the truth. You just like unbelievers call truth hate.

My obligation as a forerunner is to speak to you certain truths whether you like them or not. It is my duty to tell you this is the generation that will see the return of the Lord. To let you know the ergancy of our season, to share with you the great love God has for you so that you will be able to endure the evil day. It is my job to tell you the sword is coming, therefore turn from your evil way, and be reconciled to God. Remmber the Ten virgins? They were all believers but only 5 were ready when Christ came. And the house owner in Matthew 24? If He had Known the hour the thief was coming, He would have been prepared. Well I am telling you know prapare yourself the the day of Christ return is at hand. As Jesus said, I have told you before and I tell you again WATCH.


In my personal opinion, those who call pre-Tribbers blind, purveyors of lies and followers of doctrines of men need to get back to the drawing table with regard to love. It only shows me I am on the right track.
What it shows is that you have hardened your heart to the truth, and hate those that want to help you.

There is a time of trouble coming, were most of the lazy, luke warm, American, and westernized church will fall away. This is why is is so important that truth taught taught, so those that have ears to hear can rise up, and stand, puttting on the whole armor of God enabling themselves to stand.

Those that hardened their heart and refuse to hear will fall away.
 
watchman, that was very impressive, but fails to see the point of pretrib....in that pretrib is NOT the return of Christ.

There is no biblical question as you have well pointed out, that Jesus returns at the end.

However the catching away preceeds that in the view of a pretribber,which I am with a hedged bet to mid trib.

Revelation 3 Christ's promise to the failthful church of Philadelphia that he will" save from the hour of trial that is to come upon the WHOLE earth" points to the fact that we will not be on the earth.

Secondly, how is Satan free to act if their are Christians who still have authority over him on the earth. Only when the "salt" is lifted is Satan free to act.

Now Satan and the trials doesn't really cut loose until Midtrib, which is why I am hedging my bets


In the end we cannot know for sure HOW it will all break down...we just know that it will happen
 
watchman, that was very impressive, but fails to see the point of pretrib....in that pretrib is NOT the return of Christ.

There is no biblical question as you have well pointed out, that Jesus returns at the end.

However the catching away preceeds that in the view of a pretribber,which I am with a hedged bet to mid trib.
Actually if you re-read what I wrote. I not only [proved the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation, but also that the resrrection/ rapture of the saints is at the 2nd coming. Placing the rapture post trib as well

Revelation 3 Christ's promise to the failthful church of Philadelphia that he will" save from the hour of trial that is to come upon the WHOLE earth" points to the fact that we will not be on the earth.
John 17:15 among other scripture show us that God does not have to remove us from Earth to keep us frm evil/temptation.


Secondly, how is Satan free to act if their are Christians who still have authority over him on the earth. Only when the "salt" is lifted is Satan free to act.
This is more of the philosophical statement than a biblical one.

Now Satan and the trials doesn't really cut loose until Midtrib, which is why I am hedging my bets


In the end we cannot know for sure HOW it will all break down...we just know that it will happen
We can know, if we read, and believe God's word.

He returns at the end of the Tribulation to
#1 Resurrect the just
#2 Translate the living saints
#3 Destroy the wicked.
#4 Restore the Jewish nation
#5 Reign as King of kings here on the Earth for 1,000 years.
 
You cats are wasting your time.

You are either sowing to the flesh (like most) and on your way to the grave, or, you are sowing to the Spirit that you may never die. (Romans 8:13 and Galatians 6:8).

:angel2
 
This is not true.
#1 The petrib rapture is not a bona fide interpretation, it is a perversion of scripture
#2 Scripture is no vague it is quite clear.
6 points that prove post trib rapture (scripture included)

#1 Matt 24:29-31 and mark 13:24-27 say that the 2nd coming is after the tribulation and that there is a gathering of the elect at that time.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

#2 1st Thess 4:15-17 and 1st cor 15:20-23 say that the resurrection of the just/rapture is at the 2nd coming.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they they are Christ at his coming.

#3 1st Cor 15:51-53 says that the rapture is at the last trump but matt 24:29-31 says that there is a trump sounded after the tribulation, the rapture can not be b4 this trump therefore can not be until after the trib is over.
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


#4 Luke 17:26-30 says that the same day we are taken out is the same day Jesus returns to destroy the wicked (which he does at the end of the trib not the start) this is confirmed in 2nd thess 1:6-10.
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that no not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

#5 John 6:39,40,44,and 54 all say Jesus said that he would raise us up at the last day (not 7yrs b4 ).
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

#6 Rev 20 :4-6 says that the 1st resurrection is after the trib we know this because it includes tribulational martyrs as well as others that refuse to worship the beast or take his mark during the trib.There can be no resurrection of dead saints at a pretrib rapture b4 the 1st resurrection.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Therefore the pretrib rapture as well as the mid trib is biblicaly impossible.

God does care
#1 He wants us all to come to the knowledge of all truths.
#2 He wants us to be prepared for the time of trouble that is cominng.

It would be hate for me to tell yu anything but the truth. You just like unbelievers call truth hate.

My obligation as a forerunner is to speak to you certain truths whether you like them or not. It is my duty to tell you this is the generation that will see the return of the Lord. To let you know the ergancy of our season, to share with you the great love God has for you so that you will be able to endure the evil day. It is my job to tell you the sword is coming, therefore turn from your evil way, and be reconciled to God. Remmber the Ten virgins? They were all believers but only 5 were ready when Christ came. And the house owner in Matthew 24? If He had Known the hour the thief was coming, He would have been prepared. Well I am telling you know prapare yourself the the day of Christ return is at hand. As Jesus said, I have told you before and I tell you again WATCH.


What it shows is that you have hardened your heart to the truth, and hate those that want to help you.

There is a time of trouble coming, were most of the lazy, luke warm, American, and westernized church will fall away. This is why is is so important that truth taught taught, so those that have ears to hear can rise up, and stand, puttting on the whole armor of God enabling themselves to stand.

Those that hardened their heart and refuse to hear will fall away.

That is YOUR interpretation, and you are welcome to it.

The opinions added to it, however, are from what I view as a foul spirit of pride. These matters do not affect a Christian person's eternity, nor one's fruitful life in faithfully serving the Lord Jesus Christ...thank God.
 
That is YOUR interpretation, and you are welcome to it.

The opinions added to it, however, are from what I view as a foul spirit of pride. These matters do not affect a Christian person's eternity, nor one's fruitful life in faithfully serving the Lord Jesus Christ...thank God.
I feel you are the one with pride issues. I share with you the truth of God's word, and instead of receiving it, you accuse of pridfullness. Only a hardened heart full of pride would react in such a way.
 
Revelation 3 Christ's promise to the failthful church of Philadelphia that he will" save from the hour of trial that is to come upon the WHOLE earth" points to the fact that we will not be on the earth.
Nope... the word used is "keep" (tereo, transliterated), not "save" and it's context (as well as it's use in other verses) suggests protection, not removal. Revelation 3;10's usage as proof text is incorrect.
 
I feel you are the one with pride issues. I share with you the truth of God's word, and instead of receiving it, you accuse of pridfullness. Only a hardened heart full of pride would react in such a way.

That's only your opinion. Thanks for sharing it.
 
sheesh. doest it really matter how we enter exactly into the kingdom?

tommorow isnt promised, and we all may be in the grave when the lord does come.
 
Thanks theLords,

Agreed, and that’s a great question.

Rev. 8: 7-12 may document an intercontinental nuclear exchange, engineered to explain (propagandize) the sudden dematerialization of a billion or more persons. Here’s a possible scenario:

Daniel’s “prince that shall come (Dan. 9: 26)” arises and Daniel’s 70th week begins. At first, the Prince advocates global economic cooperation in the name of stable international relations. His subtle assurance appears to foster world stability.

However, in the midst of the 70th week, the Prince facilitates the desecration of Israel’s Temple Mount, and nuclear hostility, in conjunction with the Rapture (Pre-Wrath view), leaving the suffering and confused survivors to face the evil world system outlined in Rev. 13: 16-17.
If nukes are required to fulfill prophetic events before the 'rapture' by definition the rapture could not have been immanent until about 50 years ago. This is diametrically opposed to the dispensational basis in support of the rapture , that no intervening events must take place from the ascention to the rapture.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If nukes are required to filfill prophetic events before the 'rapture' by definition the rapture could not have been immanent until about 50 years ago. This is diametrically opposed to the dispensational basis in support of the rapture , that no intervening events must take place from the ascention to the rapture.
That's just it. The pop-culture definition of 'the rapture' is un-biblical garbage.:nono2
 
If nukes are required to fulfill prophetic events before the 'rapture' by definition the rapture could not have been immanent until about 50 years ago. This is diametrically opposed to the dispensational basis in support of the rapture , that no intervening events must take place from the ascention to the rapture.

Thanks Hitch,

I don't subscribe to Dispensationalism or Imminence.
 
only they rule!

it says that plainly. only those beheaded for christ will reign with him. the others are resurected after the millenial reign.
Too bad for you guys who were burned to death, chopped, drowned, diced,

Aint literalism fun?
 
Back
Top