How will the world explain the rapture?

[jasoncran]

I can answer that. First, see my signature.

Second, the world is destined for wrath. Tribulation is what we believers have suffered since the Crucifixion. The Lord never pardoned us from tribulation. But, He has promised we would not be subjected to His wrath.

They are two different things.

kinda hard to see that the brutal death by forced starvation en mass isnt god's wrath. when we are hunted down and overtaken and forced to hide.

yes that is happening here and now but to say that we arent going to be well somehow avoiding those plaques is kinda of a hard if you take to only all be a trib

plaques such as the
demonic locusts
the vial judgments

where will the christians be then vic dead?

 

[Vic C.]

I didn't say it was all tribulation. The following verses are promises that we will not suffer God's wrath.

1 Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

This verse clearly tells me we should expect tribulation in this world, from the enemies of God and His people.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

People get tribulation and wrath mixed up when they lump everything into a seven year span and call it a "tribulation period".

Even if I was to believe in a future seven year period, I couldn't say the entire period was simply Tribulation. This is actually where the Pre Wrath position makes sense. You should look into it.

 

[jasoncran]

well that means we must either be taken out of the way. or dead. but actually we pre-tribbers see the first part as peaceful then the other half as the wrath part.

i forget that too often.

 

[Vic C.]

Yes, out of the way. Remember our conversation about the meaning of the word "keep" in Revelation 3:10?

... and yes, when I studied Pre Wrath, it was also taught that the first 3 1/2 years was a time of "peace and safely", followed by the revealing of the antichrist and the persecution of the saints (<--- that is the Tribulation in Pre Wrath), followed by the Parousia and the "rapture of the believers" which then ushers in the Wrath of God.

I can easily see a future 3 1/2 year period of tribulation and wrath (as did Newton) but I just don't see a future seven years. I also have a slightly different understanding of the "Rapture".

It's all good though because God wins in the end!

 

[Strangelove]

False. The pre-trib rapture is a legitimate interpretation of scripture. Why would God have His people suffer Tribulation when it is meant for the world? We are not part of this world. God's time clock focuses on the Jew--not the Bride.

Hold on a sec. God's WRATH is meant for this world and we will be totally shielded from that. If you read through Rev. all of God's wrath is targeted at those who fail to repent.

Tribulation is a different thing and each and every one of us will recieve 10 days of it which is our portion. Did you think you were gonna be let off without having your faith properly tested against your flesh?

2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil
shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye
shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I
will give thee a crown of life.

Interestingly, 10 days is the maximum amount of time that a person can be continuously tortured and still kept alive. I read that in a military article somewhere recently. I'll find it if you want.​

"God's time clock focuses on the Jew--not the Bride"

I Have no idea what that means Al? Have you looked in at the True Isreal thread?

 

[watchman F]

created by satan, really? i know no pre-tribber in person that fears if its wrong. keep in mind most pre-tribbers don't believe that they also may be alive when the lord returns some stupid verse that we cant ignore that says tommorow isnt promised.

its not promised.

my pastor recenlty told the church repent for one of you may die as he felt the lord told him that. a teen came forward and repented four days later that teen was dead.

yup sounds satanic to me.

Ummmm??? Repenting of your sins is not satanic??????

 

[watchman F]

kinda hard to see that the brutal death by forced starvation en mass isnt god's wrath. when we are hunted down and overtaken and forced to hide.

yes that is happening here and now but to say that we arent going to be well somehow avoiding those plaques is kinda of a hard if you take to only all be a trib

plaques such as the
demonic locusts
the vial judgments

where will the christians be then vic dead?

I guess you have never read about how the Apostles died, or what is going on in China, and Africa as we speak. Yeah I guess we American christians are better than the Apostles, Chinese or African christians huh? We are some special breed of Christian that were not called to suffer for Christ like the rest of them lower level christians were huh? :Sarcam intended:

 

[Vic C.]

Preemptive reminder...

lets not get too personal here. We are discussing End Times beliefs, not personal issues.

Thanks.

 

[jasoncran]

I guess you have never read about how the Apostles died, or what is going on in China, and Africa as we speak. Yeah I guess we American christians are better than the Apostles, Chinese or African christians huh? We are some special breed of Christian that were not called to suffer for Christ like the rest of them lower level christians were huh? :Sarcam intended:

exactly! if one is in the trib you will die and it wont be an quick one.

the wrath isnt necesarily mean that we are doomed just that we dont get cast into hell. though those that dont get the mark are exempt but i think that starvation and plaques may affect them.

 

[Alabaster]

Hold on a sec. God's WRATH is meant for this world and we will be totally shielded from that. If you read through Rev. all of God's wrath is targeted at those who fail to repent.

Tribulation is a different thing and each and every one of us will recieve 10 days of it which is our portion. Did you think you were gonna be let off without having your faith properly tested against your flesh?

2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil
shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye
shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I
will give thee a crown of life.

Interestingly, 10 days is the maximum amount of time that a person can be continuously tortured and still kept alive. I read that in a military article somewhere recently. I'll find it if you want.
​

LOL! I don't know what bible you are reading! I am sure that God isn't consulting military articles.




​

"God's time clock focuses on the Jew--not the Bride"

I Have no idea what that means Al? Have you looked in at the True Isreal thread?

God's clock for Israel stopped when Jesus was put to death. It will start again when He comes for His Bride. Israel has 7 years remaining on her timeclock, and God will deal with her without the Church's presence, just as He did before.

 

[Adstar]

Oh yeah your right it happens in cahpter 6 before Jesus comes.

But I also noticed that the big Earthquakes happen also in that chapter (and some before that chapter) but there are none after that when Jesus comes, so that doesn't really fit with Zech 14 does it? With the big earthquake supposedly splitting the Mt. of Olives?

The battle of armaggedon is described in Revelation chapter 19 at the comming of the Messiah Jesus.

Yes there are earthquakes that shall be happening in diverse places before the great earthquake. To me these make no differance to the great earthquake that will split the mount of olives.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[watchman F]

God's clock for Israel stopped when Jesus was put to death. It will start again when He comes for His Bride. Israel has 7 years remaining on her timeclock, and God will deal with her without the Church's presence, just as He did before.

This is pretrib propaganda, not the truth of scripture.

 

[Alabaster]

This is pretrib propaganda, not the truth of scripture.

Sez you.

The pretribulational rapture is according to scripture, and guess what? Millions of bible-believing and bible-fluent Christians accept that interpretation and you calling it lies and propaganda will receive recompense. Thank God He will take care of that one.

 

[watchman F]

Sez you.

The pretribulational rapture is according to scripture, and guess what? Millions of bible-believing and bible-fluent Christians accept that interpretation and you calling it lies and propaganda will receive recompense. Thank God He will take care of that one.

Show me one scripture that says what yo have claimed in your last post.

Originally Posted by Alabaster


God's clock for Israel stopped when Jesus was put to death. It will start again when He comes for His Bride. Israel has 7 years remaining on her timeclock, and God will deal with her without the Church's presence, just as He did before.

 

[Alabaster]

Show me one scripture that says what yo have claimed in your last post.

It's all in here in a nutshell:

Daniel 9:24-27
24 “A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times.
26 “After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end. 27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.â€

 

[watchman F]

It's all in here in a nutshell:

Daniel 9:24-27
24 “A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times.
26 “After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end. 27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.”

That says nothing close to what you claim it does.

This........

Originally Posted by Alabaster


God's clock for Israel stopped when Jesus was put to death. It will start again when He comes for His Bride. Israel has 7 years remaining on her timeclock, and God will deal with her without the Church's presence, just as He did before.

comes from mans teaching, not Daniel 9

 

[watchman F]

It's all in here in a nutshell:

Daniel 9:24-27
24 “A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times.
26 “After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end. 27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.”

What transaltion are youusing. The transaltion has butchered the original translation.

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

Daniel 9
26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
NKJV

The ''He'' that confirms the covenant is Jesus himself. According o yor transaltion that cant be. I see where your problem is (one among many) It seem to be the translation yu ar reading.

 

[Alabaster]

It seems that some cannot even discern prophetic scripture concerning the Antichrist...

 

[freeway]

What transaltion are youusing. The transaltion has butchered the original translation.

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

Daniel 9
26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
NKJV

The ''He'' that confirms the covenant is Jesus himself. According o yor transaltion that cant be. I see where your problem is (one among many) It seem to be the translation yu ar reading.

Oh no you are so wrong.. the HE is talking about the antichrist, man of perdition, 666, beast so.. If this is Jesus, then the follow does not make any sense..
Then (he) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
(He) shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
This is the Antichrist.. take off the blinders and learn what your bible is talking about.. learn the old testament, the new testament writers had an understanding that who ever read the NW knew about the old testament..
Pre trib is older than post trib or mid trib belief, althought it is not an salvation issue, But Jesus said no man knows the day or hour "pre trib" is the only rapture event that fits this teaching, the other two you just count down the days form the beginnning of the peace argreement between the Jews and the AC.. the tribulation is for the salvation of the Jewish nation.. not christian testing..

 

[jasoncran]

i agree there freeway as that also was in part fulfilled with antiochus ephineses IV.