How will the world explain the rapture?

[farouk]

Why do people who read that we will all experience tribulation in our lives extrapolate that we will experience The Great Tribulation?

There is judgment in the Tribulation and we, the Church are not going to experience judgment. God says so.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 AmplifiedFor God has not appointed us to [incur His] wrath [He did not select us to condemn us], but [that we might] obtain [His] salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)

Alabaster:

Yes, as I understand the Bible, the Lord Jesus paid all the price of His people's judgment for sin, so they can't possibly be the objects of God's wrath in the Great Tribulation.

 

[Strangelove]

Alabaster:

Yes, as I understand the Bible, the Lord Jesus paid all the price of His people's judgment for sin, so they can't possibly be the objects of God's wrath in the Great Tribulation.

The saints, who are in the Trib. are not subject to God's wrath. Read revelation and notice how all of God's wrath is focused on those who failed to repent. We are in the Trib and will be persecuted not by God, but by MAN....that is our tribulation not the bowls that are poured out on the unrepentant.

16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and
there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the
mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.​

1st Vial - Aimed at those who take the mark and worship the image of the beast.​

NOT SAINTS​

16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it
became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the
sea.​

2nd Vial - Aimed at the creatures in the sea​

NOT SAINTS​

16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and
fountains of waters; and they became blood.​

16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O
Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged
thus.​

16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast
given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.​

3rd Vial - Aimed at those who SHED the blood of the saints​

NOT SAINTS​

16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power
was given unto him to scorch men with fire.​

16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name
of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented
not to give him glory.​

4th Vial - Aimed at them who are still unrepentant​

NOT REPENTANT SAINTS​

16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast;
and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their
tongues for pain,​

16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their
sores, and repented not of their deeds.​

5th Vial - Aimed at the seat of the beast and his kingdom and the unrepentant therein.​

NOT SAINTS​

16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river
Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the
kings of the east might be prepared.​

16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of
the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth
of the false prophet.​

Sixth Vial - Aimed at dragin, beast, false prophet​

NOT SAINTS​

16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there
came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne,
saying, It is done.​

16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was
a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth,
so mighty an earthquake, and so great.​

16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the
nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to
give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.​

Seventh Vial - Aimed at Babylon and those who disobeyed God and failed to come out of her.​

NOT SAINTS​

 

[Strangelove]

3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that
believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God
abideth on him.​

Wrath for those who do not believe​

1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in
unrighteousness;​

Wrath for the ungodly and unrighteous​

2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but
obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,​

Wrath for the contentious​

5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be
saved from wrath through him.​

Saints aved from wrath by the blood of Jesus. Not by Him whisking us away.​

14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any
man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his
forehead, or in his hand,​

14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is
poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he
shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the
holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:​

The wrath of God is reserved ONLY for those who fail Him. NOT SAINTS.​

 

[jasoncran]

Dunno what yer talking about or how it relates to this topic.

it relates to what paul talks about. the removal of the veil of the isreali nation and us gentiles being set aside or gone and also that the isreal shall say barcuhba bashem adonai.

what did jesus mean when he said this to jerusalem. ye shall not see me again till you say blessed be he comes in the name of the lord. and keep in mind where he was at.

jerusalem and in the temple.

thus this must happen at the end of the times of the gentiles

 

[Alabaster]

Uhm...because we are told in Revelation (the book of the Endtimes) that we will get 10 days of tribulation ending in death!

2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil
shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye
shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I
will give thee a crown of life.​

Plus who are these who come out of the great trib >>>

7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These
are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their
robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

Show me anywhere in Revelation where the saints are affected by any of God's judgements?

You've already been shown these truth's and have chosen to ignore it.

Ten literal days? Come on!

Christians living in the world in the time of the Rapture will never see the Great Tribulation.

The saints are not affected by any of God's judgments because they aren't here to do so. There will be some who find Jesus during the Tribulation and they will die in martyrdom, and then there will be some who see the Lord and His Bride returning because they will be protected by God.

That won't be any of us who know Christ now!

 

[jasoncran]

ten days? really. uh john mcain was tortured so long that he cant raise his arms above his shoulders for the rest of life. and he was captive at least two yrs.

 

[jasoncran]

lol. chapters one to 4 are not in the future for the whole christian group, but that was a message only to that church that jesus said that.

remember each name of the churches (seven in total) and the lord adresses the issues unique to that church only.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The saints, who are in the Trib. are not subject to God's wrath. Read revelation and notice how all of God's wrath is focused on those who failed to repent. We are in the Trib and will be persecuted not by God, but by MAN....that is our tribulation not the bowls that are poured out on the unrepentant.

]

While the saints are being killed in Judea during the tribulation,you will still be having these kinds of arguments with people till the flood comes and takes them all away.
None will even realize the saints are being killed and you will still be waiting for your new world order,.

 

[Strangelove]

it relates to what paul talks about. the removal of the veil of the isreali nation and us gentiles being set aside or gone and also that the isreal shall say barcuhba bashem adonai.

what did jesus mean when he said this to jerusalem. ye shall not see me again till you say blessed be he comes in the name of the lord. and keep in mind where he was at.

jerusalem and in the temple.

thus this must happen at the end of the times of the gentiles

SO WHAT!!??

So there will be Jews who come to Christ during the endtimes. YES I'm one of them whom the veil has come off in Christ. And there will probably be more in the tribulation. Whats that got to do with this topic?

 

[Strangelove]

Ten literal days? Come on!

Thats the spirit Duckie! 10 days???!! Pffffttttt. We can handle that right? Thats nothin'! Come on bring the pain! I cant wait to uphold the name of Christ in the face of torture. Let's have it!

Christians living in the world in the time of the Rapture will never see the Great Tribulation.

Oh. . But the scripture says we will have tribulation...

The saints are not affected by any of God's judgments because they aren't here to do so. There will be some who find Jesus during the Tribulation and they will die in martyrdom, and then there will be some who see the Lord and His Bride returning because they will be protected by God.

That won't be any of us who know Christ now!

We're all protected from God's wrath. As the scripture shows it's directed at the unrepentant. We won't be protected from the works of men though. When have Christians ever been protected from persecution by men?

 

[Strangelove]

ten days? really. uh john mcain was tortured so long that he cant raise his arms above his shoulders for the rest of life. and he was captive at least two yrs.

The scripture says ten days of tribulation.

You can take it literally or figuratively. Whatever way its a period of time......of tribulation. Start to come to terms with it before its too late.

 

[Strangelove]

lol. chapters one to 4 are not in the future for the whole christian group, but that was a message only to that church that jesus said that.

remember each name of the churches (seven in total) and the lord adresses the issues unique to that church only.

The whole of scripture that is told to Christians is relevent to all Christians. Taking the bad stuff and saying it's not relevant to us is unrealistic. It's childish in fact.

 

[Strangelove]

While the saints are being killed in Judea during the tribulation,you will still be having these kinds of arguments with people till the flood comes and takes them all away.
None will even realize the saints are being killed and you will still be waiting for your new world order,.

While they are taking you away on the trains to the FEMA camps you will still be obsessed with you're Islam Vs State of Isreal argument right up to the point when you recieve you're portion of tribulation at which time you're faith in Christ will evaporate along with you're theorys that not a single Christian has ever agreed with.

I on the other hand face no such problem as I'm expecting the very worst that could happen. If I'm wrong then I'm in no danger.

 

[Alabaster]

Thats the spirit Duckie! 10 days???!! Pffffttttt. We can handle that right? Thats nothin'! Come on bring the pain! I cant wait to uphold the name of Christ in the face of torture. Let's have it!



Oh. . But the scripture says we will have tribulation...

Not THE Tribulation. Otherwise every dead believer needs to be raised to life to experience what the Church is bound to experience in your scenario. Why should only a portion of the Body of Christ experience God's wrath? Shouldn't all of us from the beginning on?

We're all protected from God's wrath. As the scripture shows it's directed at the unrepentant. We won't be protected from the works of men though. When have Christians ever been protected from persecution by men?

We are not protected from certain persecution, but that is in everyday life. The Tribulation is not for the Church. It is for the WORLD, of which we are not a part.

 

[Strangelove]

Not THE Tribulation. Otherwise every dead believer needs to be raised to life to experience what the Church is bound to experience in your scenario. Why should only a portion of the Body of Christ experience God's wrath? Shouldn't all of us from the beginning on?

Oh really? Who are these verses talking to then?:

24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:​

24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the
beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

Ok we're making progress. You acknowledge that Christians will have tribulation in their lives. Thats a certainty right? and the dead Christians have obviously had theirs already.

So, have you had yours yet?

Remember we're not talking about stubbing your toe or paying too much taxes or even losing a loved one. We are talking about a great affliction, trial, or distress; suffering or grievous trouble as from oppression.

We are not protected from certain persecution, but that is in everyday life. The Tribulation is not for the Church. It is for the WORLD, of which we are not a part.

We are protected from God's wrath and nothing else. wrath is for the world. Tribulation from persecution is most definately for the church. Get your head ready for it. But be of good cheer Sister. For nothing can seperate us from the love of Christ:

8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or
distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or
sword?​

8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are
accounted as sheep for the slaughter.​

8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him
that loved us.​

8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor
principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,​

8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to
separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our
Lord.​

It will be an honor to suffer for the name of our Messiah. Our suffering shows us worthy as we keep the name of our Lord. With the knowledge that those who cause us tribulation will be paid back by god Himself:

5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that
tribulation worketh patience;

1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your
patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye
endure:​

1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that
ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye
also suffer:​

1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to
them that trouble you;​

It's a bang on certainty that you will have your portion friend:
​

16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have
peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I
have overcome the world.
​

3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer
persecution.
​

14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to
continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation
enter into the kingdom of God.​

 

[Alabaster]

Oh really? Who are these verses talking to then?:

24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:​

24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the
beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

Ok we're making progress. You acknowledge that Christians will have tribulation in their lives. Thats a certainty right? and the dead Christians have obviously had theirs already.

So, have you had yours yet?

Remember we're not talking about stubbing your toe or paying too much taxes or even losing a loved one. We are talking about a great affliction, trial, or distress; suffering or grievous trouble as from oppression.

You cannot differentiate between the tribulation we are all promised and the Tribulation period that comes upon the world and showers trouble upon all inhabitants above and beyond what anyone has ever experienced before.

That is not meant for the Bride to suffer.

It will be an honor to suffer for the name of our Messiah. Our suffering shows us worthy as we keep the name of our Lord. With the knowledge that those who cause us tribulation will be paid back by god Himself:

5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that
tribulation worketh patience;

1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your
patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye
endure:​

1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that
ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye
also suffer:​

1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to
them that trouble you;​

It's a bang on certainty that you will have your portion friend:
​

16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have
peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I
have overcome the world.
​

3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer
persecution.
​

14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to
continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation
enter into the kingdom of God.​

Once again, you fail to differentiate the normal tribulations Christians will face in life and the Great Tribulation that will fall upon the world in the wake of the Bride being taken by the Bridegroom.

The Tribulation period is God's time with the Jew.

To find oneself in the Tribulation will not be an honour but a disgrace.

 

[jasoncran]

The scripture says ten days of tribulation.

You can take it literally or figuratively. Whatever way its a period of time......of tribulation. Start to come to terms with it before its too late.

ok reconcile this then 4:1 so is that after that verse of the ten day trib? yes

in fact rev 2:8-11 kjv says this" 8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

so who is he writing to? that chruch in smyrna. and them alone. as that is in the present. notice who it says , some of the church shall be cast into prison.

nothing like you say at all!

 

[Shilohsfoal]

That is not meant for the Bride to suffer.

That is such a huge slap in the face to all the saints who have ever been persecuted for Jesus's name.
For you to say its not for the church to suffer is like saying they are not members of the church.
Paul sufferd greatly as well as many others.
Are you going to say it wasnt for Paul to suffer when Jesus said that he would suffer?
Or are you going to say Paul wasnt a member of the church?

 

[Alabaster]

That is such a huge slap in the face to all the saints who have ever been persecuted for Jesus's name.
For you to say its not for the church to suffer is like saying they are not members of the church.
Paul sufferd greatly as well as many others.
Are you going to say it wasnt for Paul to suffer when Jesus said that he would suffer?
Or are you going to say Paul wasnt a member of the church?

My forbears in Christ deserve honour, not the slap you think they are getting.

Tribulation brings much worse suffering than even theirs. It is not meant for the Bride.

You fail to discern that the Tribulation is for the wicked.

 

[Strangelove]

You cannot differentiate between the tribulation we are all promised and the Tribulation period that comes upon the world and showers trouble upon all inhabitants above and beyond what anyone has ever experienced before.

That is not meant for the Bride to suffer.

It says GREAT TRIBULATION AL!

Here it is again:

24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:​

24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the
beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

Why are you ignoring scripture?

And AFTER this great tribulation is when Jesus comes to gether His elect which you claim to be the pre-trib rapture verses. Matt 24:29.

Once again, you fail to differentiate the normal tribulations Christians will face in life and the Great Tribulation that will fall upon the world in the wake of the Bride being taken by the Bridegroom.

The Tribulation period is God's time with the Jew.

To find oneself in the Tribulation will not be an honour but a disgrace.

Oh my word. Next thing you'll be saying any of the members here who expects to be in the great tribulation is an unbeliever!

What are the 'normal tribulations' that YOU have suffered in your life? As an oppressed Christian? Tell us about it.

Why would God have any time set apart for the Jew when scripture tells us the flesh is irrelevant to salvation issues? There is one covenant, one group of Saints, one gathering, one way to the Kingdom.

Anything else is a Jewish Fable.

1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that
turn from the truth.​