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for_his_glory

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FHG,

What is this 'single truth' the Bible speaks to?

As for the word needing no outside interpretation, this is a straw man fallacy. All of the Bible needs careful exegesis - obtaining the meaning from the text.

Do you realise that is not a single word in the NT that explains Greek grammar and syntax? If I didn't use J W Wenham's Elements of New Testament Greek, I would have a clue about the original NT language and how to translate it.

Whatever translation you use needed translators with an intricate knowledge of the original languages. They had to have knowledge acquired from outside sources to understand the original languages.

I find it to be a simplistic brushing aside of the importance of other Bible teachers for you to say: 'the word needs no outside interpretations'. The fact is that without outside interpretations we would have no Bible translations. I have a friend who is a SIL Bible translator in a foreign land. He went to Australian National University to get a degree in linguistics to assist him in developing a Bible translation for a tribe whose language was not in written form. It takes a lot of work to bring oral tradition into print and then to translate a Bible in the lingua franca of the people.

Frankly, I'm tired of your pushing the line that 'the word needs no outside interpretations' or the Bible is self-interpreting.



This is a false accusation, and that by a moderator. I know some of his beliefs by his stating he is not Christian in his avatar.

Are Christians called to judge false doctrine? With your statement in bold, you provided no biblical reference. Could you be referring to Matt 7:1?

However, you've missed a lot of other Scriptures that call Christians to discernment (being judges of false and correct). I'm thinking of verses such as:
  • 1 Corinthians 5:11–13 (NIV): 'But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. ‘Expel the wicked person from among you.’
  • 1 Cor 6:4 (NIV): 'Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church?'
  • 2 Thessalonians 3:6 (NIV): 'In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers and sisters, to keep away from every believer who is idle and disruptive and does not live according to the teaching you received from us'.
  • 1 Timothy 6:20 (NIV): 'Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge'.
  • Titus 3:9 (NIV): 'But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless'.
  • Etc, etc.
Based on these and many other verses it is the responsibility of Christians on this earth to be judges.

Until my dying day, you will never ever convince me that 'we judge no man or woman as judgement belongs to God'. When you make this kind of statement you promote false doctrine.

Oz

The single truth is found in John 1:1-5 and John 3:1-21 to name just a few verses as the OT teachings are the foreshadow of Messiah come in the NT within His birth, death and resurrection.

Translators are those who transcribe the scriptures into different languages from that of the original Hebrew and Greek.

I believe exegesis is that of scripture interprets itself if we are studying the full context and cross referencing other scriptures for complete interpretation as the Holy Spirit teaches us all truths as we obtain the meaning from the text, 1 John 2:26, 27.

I don't feel the need to learn Greek grammar as the arrangment of the words in each verse has already been transcibe into English for me to understand the full of scripture as the Holy Spirit reveals the meaning of what I am reading. I use the KJV which has already been translated into English by those scholors who transcibed the original Hebrew and Greek into English language.

I do not brush aside Bible teaches, but have learned how to Spiritually discern that of what others try to teach me, 1 John 4:1-6.

I'm not pushing anything as I sincerely believe the Bible interprets itself through our listening to the Holy Spirit who teaches us all truths.

Sorry, but you are judging mozo1 who just joined us today solely on the basis that he has a no marked as being a Christian.

This is a new member forum to welcome our new members and all you have done is judged him from the start. What false doctrine has he presented as I have not yet seen him teach anything or even given a chance to explain what he has already said. You are judging a book by its cover without knowing what is inside.

Great way of welcoming a new member without getting to know them first.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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Yeah, and we're trying to attract new members here not scare them away. (This comment goes to Oz, not Deb, I'm just too lazy to quote that entire thing and delete everything but a single quote since I'm going to bed now.)
 

mozo1

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Truth has no beginning or end and therefor is without measurement ... if we hold to any one truth over a day it becomes filled with worms ... to name something is to have given it a measurement which is to judge it ...

For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. JC
 

mozo1

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mozo,

You can forgive others as much as you want and I hope you will continue to do that. But that will not grant you forgiveness of sin by God and entrance into eternal life.

Do you have a desire to be with the Trinitarian God after death? Where will you be one minute after your last breath?

Oz

Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

yet to us there is one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we through Him.

On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.


forgive me if i do not enter into debate with you, for i have found the end of debate is the futility of it ...
 

Not_Now.Soon

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Hello Mozo, and welcome.

Something you said reminds me of some other things I've heard elsewhere. Reminds me of someone I've talked to that is Hindu.

Hope to hear where your perspectives are coming from if they aren't Christian, though you've studied the bible. But if you don't want to say right now, that's ok too. The bible is good on it's own to teach, and to rebuke. To encourage and to challenge. If all we talk about are things studied from the bible, that's ok by my standards. Perhaps you might descide to be a Christian after a while from your studies or from conversations here on christianfourms.

Have a good one. :wave2
 

mozo1

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Hello Mozo, and welcome.

Something you said reminds me of some other things I've heard elsewhere. Reminds me of someone I've talked to that is Hindu.

Hope to hear where your perspectives are coming from if they aren't Christian, though you've studied the bible. But if you don't want to say right now, that's ok too. The bible is good on it's own to teach, and to rebuke. To encourage and to challenge. If all we talk about are things studied from the bible, that's ok by my standards. Perhaps you might descide to be a Christian after a while from your studies or from conversations here on christianfourms.

Have a good one. :wave2

hello NNS

i am a son of God and view everyone in the same light ... in this there is no religion ... i do not judge anyone because from where i see He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. and so who am i to judge Him ....
 

JohnDB

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Howdy Mozo,

I'm John...I'm the "bottle washer" around these parts.

Now forgive me if I understand this not correctly but you do believe IN Jesus...by that I mean that you want to be like him in forgiveness, mercy, grace and love....also that you believe that his sacrifice on the cross Justifies our sins so that we can have access to Heaven and God the Father.

Am I wrong?

The term Christian is an old derogatory term given to those who believed in Jesus much in the same manner that the term Hebrew was derogatory.... although both terms have different meanings in their original language.

And I will agree that "taking" such a name that is associated with God is rather risky behavior, not from men but God himself. (Taking God's name in vain)
But doing so does make things easier for others to understand where you are coming from.

Oz here is one of the PHDs of theology we have running around the site. He likes things to be very precise.

All in All we actually are a rather friendly site once you get past the quirks of the place. We have members from around the world.

I'm surprised at how well you are doing with your English. Not everyone from your country can do as well as you are.

So I wholeheartedly admire your ability.

Why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself? I'd love to know.
 

HeIsRisen2018

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Howdy Mozo,

I'm John...I'm the "bottle washer" around these parts.

Now forgive me if I understand this not correctly but you do believe IN Jesus...by that I mean that you want to be like him in forgiveness, mercy, grace and love....also that you believe that his sacrifice on the cross Justifies our sins so that we can have access to Heaven and God the Father.

Am I wrong?

The term Christian is an old derogatory term given to those who believed in Jesus much in the same manner that the term Hebrew was derogatory.... although both terms have different meanings in their original language.

And I will agree that "taking" such a name that is associated with God is rather risky behavior, not from men but God himself. (Taking God's name in vain)
But doing so does make things easier for others to understand where you are coming from.

Oz here is one of the PHDs of theology we have running around the site. He likes things to be very precise.

All in All we actually are a rather friendly site once you get past the quirks of the place. We have members from around the world.

I'm surprised at how well you are doing with your English. Not everyone from your country can do as well as you are.

So I wholeheartedly admire your ability.

Why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself? I'd love to know.




I agree and mozo1, I want to personally apologize if you haven't felt welcome thus far and to you everyone else for blowing up like that and losing my temper. Sheer ignorant behavior makes me mad more than anything else and there's times where I just wish people would cork it. Here is another Bible verse that I love. Matthew 7: 3-5. :readbible
 

mozo1

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Howdy Mozo,

I'm John...I'm the "bottle washer" around these parts.

Now forgive me if I understand this not correctly but you do believe IN Jesus...by that I mean that you want to be like him in forgiveness, mercy, grace and love....also that you believe that his sacrifice on the cross Justifies our sins so that we can have access to Heaven and God the Father.

Am I wrong?

The term Christian is an old derogatory term given to those who believed in Jesus much in the same manner that the term Hebrew was derogatory.... although both terms have different meanings in their original language.

And I will agree that "taking" such a name that is associated with God is rather risky behavior, not from men but God himself. (Taking God's name in vain)
But doing so does make things easier for others to understand where you are coming from.

Oz here is one of the PHDs of theology we have running around the site. He likes things to be very precise.

All in All we actually are a rather friendly site once you get past the quirks of the place. We have members from around the world.

I'm surprised at how well you are doing with your English. Not everyone from your country can do as well as you are.

So I wholeheartedly admire your ability.

Why don't you tell us a bit more about yourself? I'd love to know.

hello John

yes i believe by the knowledge ( perception of his soul ) and by his shed blood Jesus Christ justified us all .... english is my first language but the more i see the language of God it becomes more secondary ....
 

mozo1

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I agree and mozo1, I want to personally apologize if you haven't felt welcome thus far and to you everyone else for blowing up like that and losing my temper. Sheer ignorant behavior makes me mad more than anything else and there's times where I just wish people would cork it. Here is another Bible verse that I love. Matthew 7: 3-5. :readbible

it is but a speck of dust which causes a snowflake to fall ..

i appreciate you concern but it is ok i no longer hold the sins/perceptions of others against them ... Jesus forgave those who were crucifying him so who am i to take offence
 

OzSpen

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This is a new member forum to welcome our new members and all you have done is judged him from the start. What false doctrine has he presented as I have not yet seen him teach anything or even given a chance to explain what he has already said. You are judging a book by its cover without knowing what is inside.

Great way of welcoming a new member without getting to know them first.

Why have you judged me? :wall
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
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Truth has no beginning or end and therefor is without measurement ... if we hold to any one truth over a day it becomes filled with worms ... to name something is to have given it a measurement which is to judge it ...

For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. JC

What would call a disciple or follower of Christ be called.


According to the truth, they were called Christians.


And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. Acts Acts 11:26


I believe Jesus Christ is the truth.

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is truth.

I also believe the scriptures are His word that He moved upon or inspired men to write.


IOW, this verse from Acts 11:26 is the truth.


Disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.


This was long before there were divisions and denominations as well as a plethora of churches and doctrines on man.




JLB
 

HeIsRisen2018

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Let it go Oz and be done with it as it's time to move past all of this.







Exactly and I forgot to say that until any of us are truly perfect (which won't happen until Christ's return) then we really shouldn't find fault in others and I do believe that's what the verse I quoted was talking about.
 

for_his_glory

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There has to be unity of love among the children of God and to be able to voice that of what we believe even though we might not always agree as we are ever learning coming into one truth which is Christ Jesus for what He has already taught. Man's theories are just that of contemplating the thoughts of their own minds without Spiritual knowledge.
 

mozo1

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What would call a disciple or follower of Christ be called.


According to the truth, they were called Christians.


And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. Acts Acts 11:26


I believe Jesus Christ is the truth.

Every word that proceeds out of His mouth is truth.

I also believe the scriptures are His word that He moved upon or inspired men to write.


IOW, this verse from Acts 11:26 is the truth.


Disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.


This was long before there were divisions and denominations as well as a plethora of churches and doctrines on man.




JLB

to be of Christ does not actually say "God called them Christians" ... it's more like sons. As you know it was in Antioch that they were first called this, with no specifics within that verse, as to who called them this.

Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas ; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided ? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Christian is a name that is used to cause division, as is the further labeling of what kind of Christian you are ...

Who told you that you were a Christian ?

For God to call you a son is not of a truth cast down.

had there been the option for me to put "Son of God" instead of yes or no to the question "are you a Christian" would we be now entertaining this issue ?
 

mozo1

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There has to be unity of love among the children of God and to be able to voice that of what we believe even though we might not always agree as we are ever learning coming into one truth which is Christ Jesus for what He has already taught. Man's theories are just that of contemplating the thoughts of their own minds without Spiritual knowledge.

agreed

as in a Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 

JLB

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Christian is a name that is used to cause division,

I don’t see any evidence of this.

Christian is the name that divides followers of Christ from followers of Satan.

Christian is a title given to followers of Christ;
Disciples

Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. 1 Peter 4:16


as is the further labeling of what kind of Christian you are ...

I do agree with this part of your statement.

JLB
 
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