"I Believe" Does That Mean I'm Saved?

[Chopper]

When I was attending Bible College, a Professor made this statement. "If anyone says that they believe in Jesus, they are saved." Later, I came across this portion of Scripture that made me question that statement. What do you think?

John 2:23 " Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man."

Another passage of Scripture that goes along with my thinking is,
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

At one time in the early years of my Salvation, I was involved in an evangelistic crusade of Billy Graham. It was probably around 1975. I was one of those who would counsel those who came forward for Salvation. Later, I became aware of a few of those who came forward to "believe", their life did not demonstrate a Christian lifestyle.

In the years following, these false professions really bothered me until I came across these two Scriptures and also,

Matthew 13:18 "Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

Mat 13:19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandethitnot, then cometh the wickedone,and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mat 13:20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Mat 13:21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Mat 13:22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Mat 13:23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandethit;which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."

As a result of studying these three Scripture portions, and questions in my mind about why these professions didn't last, it made sense to me and as a result, I don't just accept a persons testimony of Salvation until I know a little more about the person. I feel that way because as I come to know this person, if I see that he/she might fall into one of the "seed" stories, I hope to lead this person to the Truth.

 

[JLB]

When I was attending Bible College, a Professor made this statement. "If anyone says that they believe in Jesus, they are saved." Later, I came across this portion of Scripture that made me question that statement. What do you think?

John 2:23 " Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

2:24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

2:25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man."

Another passage of Scripture that goes along with my thinking is,
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

At one time in the early years of my Salvation, I was involved in an evangelistic crusade of Billy Graham. It was probably around 1975. I was one of those who would counsel those who came forward for Salvation. Later, I became aware of a few of those who came forward to "believe", their life did not demonstrate a Christian lifestyle.

In the years following, these false professions really bothered me until I came across these two Scriptures and also,

Matthew 13:18 "Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

Mat 13:19When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandethitnot, then cometh the wickedone,and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mat 13:20But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

Mat 13:21Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Mat 13:22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Mat 13:23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandethit;which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."

As a result of studying these three Scripture portions, and questions in my mind about why these professions didn't last, it made sense to me and as a result, I don't just accept a persons testimony of Salvation until I know a little more about the person. I feel that way because as I come to know this person, if I see that he/she might fall into one of the "seed" stories, I hope to lead this person to the Truth.

As always, you make some great points and use scripture to verify what you believe.

Knowing your background as a Calvanist, this should be a great thread, as the topic is one worth contending for.

Be blessed.


JLB

 

[Knotical]

Salvation is not predicated on belief, but belief can be predicated on salvation. Meaning that once we are quickened by the Holy Spirit to understand God's saving grace we then believe it is so.

The problem that arises with a statement like "If someone says they believe they are saved, they are saved." is that we are not to question whether or not it is true that they are saved, though it can become pretty obvious by their fruits what is true.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Vital subject, old friend. I believed after Paul was blown to pieces in November of '69 but I, in no fashion, believe I was saved. On my Jean Vest I flew my colors proclaiming God is alive and it seemed like every time I turned around, God was knocking my legs out from under me, for more than twenty-three years.

So, was my name written in the Book of Life? It was recorded before there was an Earth. But i was busy womanizing and singing rowdy music, to busy to pay attention to God and all of this requires a good deal of examination to understand what appears at first glance to be a contradiction.

WE, humans, must accept, not understand but just accept that there is no limit to the power of God. This is essential to grasp a number of statements God makes in the Bible.

But what in the world am I talking about? God created, this Time/Space Continuum, solely for man to measure his existance, progress, life and all else by. It has no restriction on or Heavenly Father in any form.

God being outside this, ¿can I say bubble? looking and occasionally stepping in, is not restricted to our Time Frame. This permits Him to be able to be in the past, the present and our future at the same time. WOW!

So before God began to create He knew every step each of us, lost or saved, would take as we live. This is Predestination, as it is taught in the whole of scripture. It has no9thing to do with God creating one to go to Heaven and then creating a thousand more to go to Hell.

No, God also teaches us that every man, woman and child has a God awarded Free Will he or she commands. But at the same time, and though I grasp this, I do not pretend to understand it, God has always been present in the future and because He is and He was in the past, simultaneously, God knows what and when each one of us will do this or that before we arrive there.

In summary; I do believe salvation is a bit more than just believing. Can I be wrong? Yes and if or when Jesus tells me I am I will change my view.

May God bless brother.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I feel that way because as I come to know this person, if I see that he/she might fall into one of the "seed" stories, I hope to lead this person to the Truth.

I'm in agreement with you Brother.

 

[smaller]

It might be appropriate to see that the "Seed" of Christ is capable of prevailing, not the person. Salvation never rested in the person's hands to start with.

We might simply see Jesus as sufficient, instead, regardless of what happens.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Smaller - the seed will always grow if the ground is right. A heart has to want it.

 

[smaller]

Smaller - the seed will always grow if the ground is right. A heart has to want it.

The Seed of Christ can grow in any kind of ground. Nobody has ground any better than any other.

 

[LovethroughDove]

The Seed of Christ can grow in any kind of ground. Nobody has ground any better than any other.

That is simply not true. Jesus said otherwise.

 

[smaller]

That is simply not true. Jesus said otherwise.

I suppose it depends on how much we want to back pat our own ground.

I'll prefer to see the Sufficiency of Christ as the only factor to the matters. 2 Cor. 12:9

 

[LovethroughDove]

I suppose it depends on how much we want to back pat our own ground.

I'll prefer to see the Sufficiency of Christ as the only factor to the matters. 2 Cor. 12:9

Why did Jesus say this?

John 3:19-21 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Are you saying that a person's heart towards the truth doesn't matter? If people don't want the truth, they won't be in the light.

 

[smaller]

The Seed of Christ always comes to sinners in any cases of sights. So, that much is certain.

Paul defined himself as the chief of same sinners after salvation in 1 Tim. 1:15. And notes that it is these, sinners, that Christ came to save.

He also notes that "our" yes, our bodies as believers is presently vile. And that we should anticipate and expect 'change' of this present vile body, by the Power of Christ.

So, is our "vile body" better than anyone else's? Uh, definitely a NO.

Phil. 3:21

If anything we should glory in our infirmities and factual weaknesses, as Paul obviously did in many references. The weaker we are, the stronger the Power of Christ upon us. Little known Spiritual lesson, hard learned.

 

[LovethroughDove]

We are talking about a heart matter. All our bodies are not that great and work against us.

 

[smaller]

Why did Jesus say this?

John 3:19-21 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Are you saying that a person's heart towards the truth doesn't matter? If people don't want the truth, they won't be in the light.

If God in Christ, TODAY, desired to put a believing heart in anyone and everyone, He certainly could do it, in the blink of His Eye.

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh.

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Jesus doesn't need to be "begged" into any person by us, that much is certain. "Oh, please, won't you make Christ valid?" Ridiculous. But we've gotten so used to this form of begging unbelievers on the airwaves that to many it sounds like that's the way it's supposed to be done.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

IF Jesus wanted to do so, every person on the face of the earth could be struck down in their tracks and blinded just as Paul was, and God in Christ, could, that fast, turn everyone to repentance and understanding and this present world would end.

The questions to ask are more along the lines of why He doesn't? And for that we observe the judgments that are upon the earth presently, toward the devil and his messengers, who are ALSO being "gamed out" by God in this environment.

We can turn to Romans 11:25-32 and see, instantly, that "all of Israel" shall be saved, even enemies of the Gospel. And this is not "future tense" application. They are noted as enemies, present tense, when Paul wrote that scripture. They will be saved on the basis of God's Love toward the fathers of faith, and not of their own merits.

These subjects are not as "pat" as most forms of condemnation doctrines can "get by." Romans 11:25-32 has plagued christian theology positions for hundreds of years, without resolve, other than to simply believe that's going to happen for "all of Israel." A great deal of determination positions are adapted around this exact matter.

Did their ground then matter? No. Not one bit. They are beloved for the sakes of someone other than themselves. How many forms of christian theology teach that a believer in the household saves the family? A LOT of them.

 

[WIP]

I figure if believing alone produced salvation then Satan is saved. It would seem it requires more than just believing in Jesus.

 

[smaller]

I figure if believing alone produced salvation then Satan is saved. It would seem it requires more than just believing in Jesus.

We might ask ourselves if a liar says "I believe" are they telling the truth?

Probably not. And that is the case with devils who believe. They are all, by nature, liars. John 8:44.

So pointing to James 2:19 in this matter fails to understand this basic scriptural paradox.

 

[WIP]

Perhaps repentance and in whom one places his/her faith play into it?
Matthew 7:21-23 come to mind. (NKJV)
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

 

[Corn Pop]

I think it maybe deception. I cant just read one verse and then say I have read the entire bible.

How can one verse save.

Its like the 10 commandments for example,someone cant just read one verse like do not steal and then never steal and say they have fullfilled the commandments.

 

[smaller]

Perhaps repentance and in whom one places his/her faith play into it?
Matthew 7:21-23 come to mind. (NKJV)
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

I've posted this before, but the nuances of this matter are seldom seen.

IF we look at Paul's depiction of himself and the messenger of Satan in his flesh, is it conceivable that the messenger of Satan in the flesh is the party being addressed in your citing above? That is the only logical answer. And why? Because we are all sinners, and as such, workers of iniquity.

We have to look to "all" the parties to the present drama of life to get to the bottom of these issues, WITHOUT FEAR, as believers.

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

The instant "any" of us as believers are "truthful" and "honest" in our own heart, we'll see that we do work iniquity, being "sinners." IF we don't turn to Paul to see what's going on here, we'll ignore what is our HOPE and instead cower in fear, when we should actually 'ATTEND' EXACTLY to What Jesus Is Saying in that statement of fact.

IF Paul were standing here, in the flesh, when Jesus makes that statement, would Paul hear those Words? YES! And he would REJOICE to hear them! Because Paul knew "who" they would be directed to. NOT HIM.

 

[smaller]

I think it maybe deception. I cant just read one verse and then say I have read the entire bible.

How can one verse save.

Its like the 10 commandments for example,someone cant just read one verse like do not steal and then never steal and say they have fullfilled the commandments.

Ugh. Don't we yet know that the "mere thought" of evil, defiles us and BREAKS the law?

Matt. 5:28, Romans 7:7-13. Both, identical statements.

There is no escaping the facts of being sinners, period.

We all, down to the last one of us, are BOUND to that which is CONTRARY to the Spirit:

Galatians 5:
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Are believers who claim they do not "have" this present contrariness to the Spirit even IN TRUTH? Uh, no. The facts of their contrariness have blinded them to the obvious.

1 John 1:8, 1 John 3:8, Gal. 4:14, Gal. 5:17---> ALL IDENTICAL STATEMENTS.