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"I Believe" Does That Mean I'm Saved?

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Dear Brother Chopper, I'll just paste an excerpt of a study I have on Matthew that may be of help. at: http://www.gracegod.com/Study Books/Matthew - Biography of the King.pdf

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Men who are still of the old creation call Jesus "Lord," but not in spirit or truth, for Paul assures us "that no one can call Jesus Lord but by the Holy Ghost" (I Cor. 12:3), and this necessitates a new birth whereby we are enabled to do the will of our heavenly Father. Many people say prayers and call Jesus "Lord" with their lips while their heart is still in rebellion against God and therefore not in harmony with His will. And many today are apparently serving Him in this condition; but in that coming day of manifestation empty profession will not suffice. Even prophesying, the casting out of demons, performing miracles are not the evidence of the new creation, for some of the preachers of reformation may perform these apparent great works. Men may quit drinking, stealing and other wicked practices, at their solicitation, rebuke or coercian; they may clean up their back tracks, "quit their meanness" and after- wards live a good moral life as the world judges; but Jesus called such, "whited sepulchres," for their changed habits are not the result of a changed nature. Therefore good works are not a decisive proof of true discipleship; for the latter necessitates heart subjection, otherwise the works will be lawlessness, or "will- worship" as Paul terms them.-Col. 2:23. A yielded life which says "Yes" to all the will of God is the sure sign of a true disciple of Jesus. Such Christians are real "yes" men

Who Is Wise? "Wherefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man who built his house upon a rock." The True Preacher of righteousness now ends His great Sermon with two contrasted illustrations: the one exhibits the dependent spirit who finds a stable, steadfast anchorage, while the other depicts the independent soul who believes himself sufficient. He pictures them both as the builder of a house--that which stands for his affections and rest, yea, more, as viewed here, the place of shelter from the deluge, a refuge from the storm. And it is the foundation which He emphasizes, for this is of paramount importance in building: get this firm and stable and the rest is easy. But if the foundation is weak and tottering, no matter how solidly the house is built, it will all fall with the foundation. Christ Himself is the Rock that abides the tempest shock: all else whatever its nature, however otherwise substantial or suitable, is but "sand." He who builds upon the Christ of the Scriptures, the One who died, was buried and rose again, the Head of a new creation, his house will endure the storm. And none other foundation can any man lay that will stand the judgment; for the old Adam building has already been condemned and pronounced a ruin: tho' while the weather is fair, the latter building may appear better, bigger and more attractive than the House on the Rock, but the man who trusts and leans upon it, while he may enjoy a passing triumph, may even mock and sneer at the other building, yet when the storm has passed there will be but one remaining. And it will be too late then for some to remedy their foolishness, which the world called wisdom; for they will fall with their house. Let us rejoice indeed if we are on the Rock Christ Jesus, building upon Him alone. Thus the two Heads of the human race are presented here, side by side, at the close of this matchless discourse on the mount; for all the truth which it contains is based upon, so to speak, and springs from these two rep- resentative Men, Adam and Christ. The one has fallen; the other abides. And the multitude were astonished at the doctrine, even as they are today, when these deep things are unfolded. They found His manner and words of authority such a contrast to that of the scribes, with their unreality, externalism and form, that they were amazed. It was the Voice of authority which carried conviction, the Voice of the One greater than Moses, who had now appeared, not only to take Moses seat, but to take His own seat, which was indeed higher than that of the law-giver of the old covenant.
 
Edit. I need more study before comment.
 
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Luk 9:18 ¶ And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
Luk 9:19 - They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
Luk 9:20 - He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
Luk 9:21 ¶ And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;
Luk 9:22 - Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
Luk 9:23 ¶ And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk 9:24 - For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Luk 9:25 - For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
Luk 9:26 - For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
People are not immune to believing what they desire to believe despite evidence. This can be positive. However, blind belief can also be negative if the type of Christ one chooses to believe and follow doesn't correspond with the reality of Jesus.
 
If God in Christ, TODAY, desired to put a believing heart in anyone and everyone, He certainly could do it, in the blink of His Eye.
http://legacy.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+11:19&version=KJV

IF Jesus wanted to do so, every person on the face of the earth could be struck down in their tracks and blinded just as Paul was, and God in Christ, could, that fast, turn everyone to repentance and understanding and this present world would end.

The questions to ask are more along the lines of why He doesn't? And for that we observe the judgments that are upon the earth presently, toward the devil and his messengers, who are ALSO being "gamed out" by God in this environment.

I do love :thumbsup the scriptures you posted with this. The " I WILL", cause he does. Now, I'm going to give you a paradox. I'm a woman and I'm going to tell you not to think too much into everything.

What do I mean? God has literally planted a field of souls and he knows that "I WILL", get a harvest of righteousness from that field. Those who love the truth (light), will be harvested from his crop (entire human existence)
 
I do love :thumbsup the scriptures you posted with this. The " I WILL", cause he does. Now, I'm going to give you a paradox. I'm a woman and I'm going to tell you not to think too much into everything.

What do I mean? God has literally planted a field of souls and he knows that "I WILL", get a harvest of righteousness from that field. Those who love the truth (light), will be harvested from his crop (entire human existence)

Uh, huh. And most of us think, how is it that the fields are already white? Don't they have to GROW first? Uh, no. The fields are already white.

John 4:35
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.
 
Does this mean he has been harvesting the whole time?
The people of Israel were taught, by God, that they are 'children of God.'

Deut. 14:1, Psalm 82:6 and many others, affirmed as such by Jesus in Matt. 23:9, EVEN in their then and current unbelief.

They were actually BLINDED by God in our behalves. Romans 11:8 Romans 11:15 and the citing below. We've been very largely unappreciative of their temporal fate, as it has actually been "for" us.

Romans 11:
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
 
Wow gang, you all have presented some amazing posts. At first I thought some of you were drifting away from the original intent of the thread, but as I read them closer, I can see some valuable reasoning here. Thank you.

JLB, bless his heart, mentioned that I was a Calvinist and that's true. So, being a Calvinist, I'm probably more sensitive to someone's profession. When Jesus was on the earth, I believe that He was always looking for an individual who had the call of His Father on him or her. He was looking for the elect. I believe that there were certain signs in those individuals that Jesus could discern, and then pursue to establish faith and belief in Him. As a Calvinist, I do the same. I sometimes say to a person, "Does it feel to you like God is wants something from you?" or "Have you been thinking about God lately?.

I try and use the same influence that God had on my life 10 years before I was soundly saved.
 
Who Is Wise? "Wherefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man who built his house upon a rock." The True Preacher of righteousness now ends His great Sermon with two contrasted illustrations: the one exhibits the dependent spirit who finds a stable, steadfast anchorage, while the other depicts the independent soul who believes himself sufficient. He pictures them both as the builder of a house--that which stands for his affections and rest, yea, more, as viewed here, the place of shelter from the deluge, a refuge from the storm. And it is the foundation which He emphasizes, for this is of paramount importance in building: get this firm and stable and the rest is easy.


Your commentary here Eugene got me to thinking, especially what our concept is about how we build upon that sure foundation which is Christ, and the thought actually ties back in with Chopper's OP in a way. There are the wise who built their house upon the upon the rock, and then there are the foolish who built their house upon the sand. But to take it a step further, have you considered that among the wise who built upon the rock, that there are also two types of the wise?

There are the wise who have truly humbled themselves and are built up into the body of Christ, who grow into the image of Christ, being established upon that sure foundation, which is the Spirit of Christ. But there are also those who are wise in there own minds, those who have substituted knowledge and pride for real Faith. They too believe in God, as did the Pharisees in their day, but they have not built upon the rock as a sure foundation. Instead of allowing the Spirit of Christ to built them up into His house and into His kingdom, they have taken hold of that rock so that they might use it as a tool or a weapon to build up their own house and their own kingdom. Lord, Lord, have we not done all these thing in your name?

To whom was it given to be the builder of the Temple?
 
Wow gang, you all have presented some amazing posts. At first I thought some of you were drifting away from the original intent of the thread, but as I read them closer, I can see some valuable reasoning here. Thank you.

JLB, bless his heart, mentioned that I was a Calvinist and that's true. So, being a Calvinist, I'm probably more sensitive to someone's profession. When Jesus was on the earth, I believe that He was always looking for an individual who had the call of His Father on him or her. He was looking for the elect. I believe that there were certain signs in those individuals that Jesus could discern, and then pursue to establish faith and belief in Him. As a Calvinist, I do the same. I sometimes say to a person, "Does it feel to you like God is wants something from you?" or "Have you been thinking about God lately?.

I try and use the same influence that God had on my life 10 years before I was soundly saved.


Amen. Please know I meant no disrespect.

The OP seemed to indicate that you believe those who "say they believe" are not necessarily saved, which seems to contradict the traditional Calvinist view of salvation.

There seems to be alot of discussion back and forth concerning salvation by works, and salvation by faith.

I for one have been grossly misunderstood about this subject.

I believe works are the result of a person who has been born again and filled with God's Spirit.

I believe we are saved by grace through faith.

It's the definition and the principles of faith and how faith works and what grace is that seem to be most misunderstood.

Faith is the substance [not the reality] of things hoped for...

In other words, if you have something by faith, then by definition, you have not obtained the reality of the thing you are hoping for.

That seems to be ok if your talking about a car or a job or a wife or husband...but when you apply this same principle to salvation, that's when the trouble starts.

as Peter said - receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

Jesus said it like this - those who endure to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

Paul said -
24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

The it that Paul says we are waiting for with perseverance is salvation... for we were saved [past tense] in this hope.


James say it this way -

12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. James 1:12-14

Believing and proving we believe by obeying the Gospel, is the difference.


I would like to hear for your perspective about these things.


Thanks JLB
 
Your commentary here Eugene got me to thinking, especially what our concept is about how we build upon that sure foundation which is Christ, and the thought actually ties back in with Chopper's OP in a way. There are the wise who built their house upon the upon the rock, and then there are the foolish who built their house upon the sand. But to take it a step further, have you considered that among the wise who built upon the rock, that there are also two types of the wise?

There are the wise who have truly humbled themselves and are built up into the body of Christ, who grow into the image of Christ, being established upon that sure foundation, which is the Spirit of Christ. But there are also those who are wise in there own minds, those who have substituted knowledge and pride for real Faith. They too believe in God, as did the Pharisees in their day, but they have not built upon the rock as a sure foundation. Instead of allowing the Spirit of Christ to built them up into His house and into His kingdom, they have taken hold of that rock so that they might use it as a tool or a weapon to build up their own house and their own kingdom. Lord, Lord, have we not done all these thing in your name?

To whom was it given to be the builder of the Temple?
Dear Brother ezrider, I reckon I do know that there is more than one category of true believers, and represented by our individual walks in Christ I believe this following scripture shows those divisions of growth.

1Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

And Paul says in 1 Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. There is a great amount of Christians content to just get to heaven, and that's the least anyone that has believed on Jesus is guaranteed.

Thanks for your reply.
 
Perhaps the difference is between just "believing in", and "believing ON."
 
LTD,
Jesus, the son of God was a Carpenter, not a farmer and He was likening a natural issue, Farming, to a Spiritual matter, nothing more. You are pulling this parable out of it's context and laying it down next to the line separating truth from heresy, a line often and to easily crossed. There is not a human being with soil for a seed to germinate in and to grow strong. All of this is used to describe the condition, not oif the pump but, none the less, the heart of man.

Smaller appears to be struggling with you that you might understand this truth.
 
Dear Brother ezrider, I reckon I do know that there is more than one category of true believers, and represented by our individual walks in Christ I believe this following scripture shows those divisions of growth.

1Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

And Paul says in 1 Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. There is a great amount of Christians content to just get to heaven, and that's the least anyone that has believed on Jesus is guaranteed.

Thanks for your reply.
Eugene,
Great preachers have failed to express this truth as well as you have here. I have oft been caught explaining to the brethren that when we arrive in the presence of our LORD we will all be found seated at His feet as He explains to all of us, the faithful, that our ideology of His theology is all wet. That, indeed, from Martin Luther to Bill Taylor makes us,, every one of us, Babes in Christ. WE are much, much, more alike than we are different.

May God bless, brother.
 
Salvation is not predicated on belief, but belief can be predicated on salvation. Meaning that once we are quickened by the Holy Spirit to understand God's saving grace we then believe it is so.
The Bible does not indicate that one is "made alive" before they believe, or in order for them to believe. This is just one of the points of Calvinism that cannot be supported from Scripture.

For example, In Eph 2:5 Paul equates being "made alive" with "have been saved":
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

I believe the parenthesis defines what Paul meant by "made us alive". Unless someone can show that this isn't the case, I will continue to believe that being made alive is the same as being saved.

Now, Paul makes a further clarifying statement in v.8:
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

Here, we see that we "have been saved" THROUGH FAITH. So it is obvious that faith precedes being saved, or being made alive.

However, to address the OP, the only issue is what is believed. Many children believe in Santa. That doesn't mean they are saved. Many believe in Allah. That doesn't save anyone.

So, we must understand what saving faith is. It requires an object in which to believe, and a goal for that belief. iow, why we believe in the object.

So, saving faith is this:
Jesus Christ (Messiah), the Son of God is the object of what is believed. Jn 20:31
The goal or purpose for believing in Jesus Christ is for the gift of eternal life. Jn 3:16, 6:40, 20:31, Rom 6:23

So, if one says, "I believe", and that includes both Jesus Christ the Son of God, and are believing in Him for the gift of eternal life, then, yes, they are saved. Based on the Bible.

For any other object, or any other goal or purpose even when the object is Jesus Christ, and there is no salvation.

For example, one who believes in Jesus Christ for a new car, promotion, etc, doesn't have saving faith. They've been given a false gospel, even though it includes Jesus Christ. But they are believing for the wrong reason.

One must believe in Christ for the right reason to be saved.
 
The Bible does not indicate that one is "made alive" before they believe, or in order for them to believe. This is just one of the points of Calvinism that cannot be supported from Scripture.

For example, In Eph 2:5 Paul equates being "made alive" with "have been saved":
even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)

I believe the parenthesis defines what Paul meant by "made us alive". Unless someone can show that this isn't the case, I will continue to believe that being made alive is the same as being saved.

Now, Paul makes a further clarifying statement in v.8:
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

Here, we see that we "have been saved" THROUGH FAITH. So it is obvious that faith precedes being saved, or being made alive.

However, to address the OP, the only issue is what is believed. Many children believe in Santa. That doesn't mean they are saved. Many believe in Allah. That doesn't save anyone.

So, we must understand what saving faith is. It requires an object in which to believe, and a goal for that belief. iow, why we believe in the object.

So, saving faith is this:
Jesus Christ (Messiah), the Son of God is the object of what is believed. Jn 20:31
The goal or purpose for believing in Jesus Christ is for the gift of eternal life. Jn 3:16, 6:40, 20:31, Rom 6:23

So, if one says, "I believe", and that includes both Jesus Christ the Son of God, and are believing in Him for the gift of eternal life, then, yes, they are saved. Based on the Bible.

For any other object, or any other goal or purpose even when the object is Jesus Christ, and there is no salvation.

For example, one who believes in Jesus Christ for a new car, promotion, etc, doesn't have saving faith. They've been given a false gospel, even though it includes Jesus Christ. But they are believing for the wrong reason.

One must believe in Christ for the right reason to be saved.
I guess a greater study should be done on the difference between faith and belief, but just because someone says they believe they are saved does not make it so, as is evidenced by their fruit. Many people that are members of various churches may say they are saved yet are not, however, it is not up to use to make that distinction. That is between them and God.

Quite frankly, because it is between the individual and God, it really makes no nevermind what we think about the whole process. God knows who is saved and who is not. The only way we know for sure is the knowledge that is imparted to use by the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit we would not be aware of any of it.
 
Some people can't seem to resist figuring out ways that our Savior, WON'T.

It's one thing to question and test ourselves. It's quite another to try to do that to another believer. We are taught not to lay stumbling blocks tho.

Leviticus 19:14
Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.

Romans 14:13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
 
I guess a greater study should be done on the difference between faith and belief
Basically, the word 'faith' is a noun while 'believe' is a verb, an action. The body of what we believe is our faith. For example, the "Christian faith" is the body of information found in the Bible. If one claims to believe or to be a believer, they must accept and believe what the Bible says.

but just because someone says they believe they are saved does not make it so, as is evidenced by their fruit.
Actually, it's not the fruit that is the issue. It is, as I've already explained WHAT they believe that is the issue. What is the object of their faith, and what is the goal or purpose of their faith? Those determine whether one is saved from the Biblical view or not. It's very straight forward.

Many people that are members of various churches may say they are saved yet are not, however, it is not up to use to make that distinction. That is between them and God.
The mainline liberal protestant churches have basically rejected the Bible and watered it down with what is called the "social gospel", which is no gospel at all, and doesn't save anyone. But these people think they will be saved if they follow what those churches teach.

Quite frankly, because it is between the individual and God, it really makes no nevermind what we think about the whole process.
It was good that Paul had a different viewpoint, because when the jailer asked him directly what he MUST DO to be saved, Paul gave him the correct answer. We must be prepared to to likewise.

God knows who is saved and who is not. The only way we know for sure is the knowledge that is imparted to use by the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit we would not be aware of any of it.
How to be saved is clearly presented in the Bible.
 
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me...

I always took that to hint at predestination.
 
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